GSOC says Gardai can exercise discretion in parking enforcement

buffalo

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Not sure what your point is?

Are you saying that it is okay for cyclists to break the law because some cycling lanes may have cars in them?

No, I'm saying this thread is a very weird place to raise that topic.

Seth Brundle

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Someone mentioned traffic wardens. I think there is a role for such who would concentrate on this type of offence.

So hire a public servant to police the manner in which some selfish drivers park because the police couldn't be arsed doing it?

CramCycle

JustAThought wrote: »

Maybe they can start handing out fines and tickets for cyclists NOT using tei lane cycle laths but instead bloicking main road traffic, cycling with headphones in, and cyclists undertaking cars without leaving 1.5 meters safe space for themsleves.

MOD VOICE: Do not post in this thread again, any questions via PM

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Not to mention cyclists on footpaths. Something that seems much more prevalent these days.

MOD VOICE: It is off topic, leave this part of the discussion alone. Any questions via PM only

Chips Lovell

I don't think it's a case of "can't be arsed". More the fact that there's only a certain amount Gardai, which tranlsates in to X amount of policing time. They need to be able to exercise their discretion into how to best use that policing time.

CramCycle

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I don't think it's a case of "can't be arsed". More the fact that there's only a certain amount Gardai, which tranlsates in to X amount of policing time. They need to be able to exercise their discretion into how to best use that policing time.

And its very much something that has been flagged by rank and file Gardai as an issue. The paperwork with even minor offences is time consuming. so much so that in a short while it clearly becomes a drain on resources with Supers informing them not to follow up to much on such offences as it takes them off the front line. They need a system like the cops in many US states have. See a car, pull out the device, insert the reg plate, tick the box for the offence, ticket printed, job done. A print out for the windscreen and the FPN sent to the registered address. I have heard it from friends who are gardai and I think the Garda AMA thread on the site covered it a bit as well.

Blueshoe

I see from the photos that apart from Garda vehicles parking in cycling lanes there are also some delivery vehicles shown.
On occasion I would be carrying out deliveries in Dublin city centre and have no option but to park wherever I can as the stick I'm dropping off can be heavy and akward.
I see many other delivery drivers doing similar. This isn't going to change. There is rarely a suitable loading zone available or even present.

What are the thoughts of cyclists on here about delivery vehicles in cycling lanes

Hurrache

Blueshoe wrote: »

What are the thoughts of cyclists on here about delivery vehicles in cycling lanes

They simply shouldn't be there.

There's usually always an alternative (see the recent Supervalu driver driving over the orcas), I understand (but don't excuse) why they do it.

They'd rather inconvenience many people than inconvenience themselves to make things easier for themselves.

magicbastarder

i remember reading that in miami in the 80s, police were so overwhelmed, that they weren't prosecuting cannabis possession cases of under 2 tons.
must see if i can find a source for that.

Blueshoe

Hurrache wrote: »

They simply shouldn't be there.

There's usually always an alternative (see the recent Supervalu driver driving over the orcas), I understand (but don't excuse) why they do it.

They'd rather inconvenience many people than inconvenience themselves to make things easier for themselves.

But there isn't an alternative. Until many many more loading bays are placed nothing will change. It can't

CramCycle

Blueshoe wrote: »

What are the thoughts of cyclists on here about delivery vehicles in cycling lanes

Why not just park in the traffic lane then? Its a genuine question but normally when a delivery van parks on a cycle lane it either parks on the footpath and cycle lane and still covers a bit of the driving lane therefore stopping one mode, restricting the most vulnerable mode and still inconveniencing the other that they are trying to avoid. The other times they block the bike path and the traffic lane (about half of it), so they essentially have blocked one mode that contains VRUs, then also block motorised traffic who have to perform an overtake anyway. Why not just block one mode only and leave it at that? Or the council make it illegal and force their hand, you have to find a car park or loading bay space, and if you have to wheel goods 100m then that price can be born by the consumer in the end.

I would also accept timed deliveries, make it between 4am and 7am. Road traffic and cycle lane use is light, very few pedestrians. Businesses have to pay someone to come in early but deliveries will be quicker and safer all round

Hurrache

Blueshoe wrote: »

But there isn't an alternative. Until many many more loading bays are placed nothing will change. It can't

Like Cramcycle said, why not just park on the traffic lane and leave the footpath and cycle lanes free?

There usually is alternatives though, there's always loading bays somewhere, the option to go find them is usually just not taken, mainly for the effort in carting the stuff to where it's intended for.

In the plan that Peregrine linked to, it has

The option of identifying specific delivery times off-peak for goods deliveries is also to be considered.

magicbastarder

the problem is that many road designers don't build loading bays into their designs, there's been a laissez fare attitude of 'sure people will work around it' which has helped lead us here.

Blueshoe

CramCycle wrote: »

Why not just park in the traffic lane then? Its a genuine question but normally when a delivery van parks on a cycle lane it either parks on the footpath and cycle lane and still covers a bit of the driving lane therefore stopping one mode, restricting the most vulnerable mode and still inconveniencing the other that they are trying to avoid. The other times they block the bike path and the traffic lane (about half of it), so they essentially have blocked one mode that contains VRUs, then also block motorised traffic who have to perform an overtake anyway. Why not just block one mode only and leave it at that? Or the council make it illegal and force their hand, you have to find a car park or loading bay space, and if you have to wheel goods 100m then that price can be born by the consumer in the end.

I would also accept timed deliveries, make it between 4am and 7am. Road traffic and cycle lane use is light, very few pedestrians. Businesses have to pay someone to come in early but deliveries will be quicker and safer all round

Drivers can park in the road and block a lane of they wish. One of my co workers actually did this recently. A car was parked in the loading bay so he just stopped alongside it, blocked traffic in that lane and refused to move and just waited despite the beeping from those behind him. A Garda eventually came and ended up taking his side because of the car in the loading bay.

Personally I won't be blocking a car lane. Most of my stops are 5 or 10 minutes so until more loading bays are made available to deliver drivers I will continue to park where I can.

I haven't heard anyone or body make the suggestion for 4am to 7am deliveries. Vehicles have to be loaded so drivers would be starting their shift at 1am or so. That's pie in the sky stuff in my opinion.

I can't see anything happening any time soon to be honest

Blueshoe

Hurrache wrote: »

Like Cramcycle said, why not just park on the traffic lane and leave the footpath and cycle lanes free?

There usually is alternatives though, there's always loading bays somewhere, the option to go find them is usually just not taken, mainly for the effort in carting the stuff to where it's intended for.

In the plan that Peregrine linked to, it has

Sorry I didn't see the plan. Can you link it again. I'd be interested in reading that part. Thanks

Eamonnator

Blueshoe wrote: »

I see from the photos that apart from Garda vehicles parking in cycling lanes there are also some delivery vehicles shown.
On occasion I would be carrying out deliveries in Dublin city centre and have no option but to park wherever I can as the stick I'm dropping off can be heavy and akward.
I see many other delivery drivers doing similar. This isn't going to change. There is rarely a suitable loading zone available or even present.

What are the thoughts of cyclists on here about delivery vehicles in cycling lanes

Why should other road and footpath users be inconvenienced/endangered simply for your convenience?

Blueshoe

Eamonnator wrote: »

Why should other road and footpath users be inconvenienced/endangered simply for your convenience?

Necessity rather than convenience.
Options are very limited out there. It's a headache for all involved

CrankyHaus

GreeBo wrote: »

One wonders why the council pays for cycle lanes that they are happy to surrender to taximen.
I'd be asking my council why they are wasting my money on them.

I don't know the details but my understanding is that there are various funds and grants available to Local Authorities to "build" cycle lanes.


I suspect that this is the incentive to paint a few lines on the road, call it a job done, and get some of that sweet $$$, then never think of it again, much less maintain it, and give motor vehicles carte blanche to park all over it.



Certainly it may explain many of the ridiculous cycle lanes in this country that IMO either do nothing to improve cyclist safety or even put them at greater risk.


https://ecf.com/what-we-do/european-funding/eu-funds-cycling-campaign

Rodney Bathgate

buffalo wrote: »

No, I'm saying this thread is a very weird place to raise that topic.

Not really. Dealing with cyclists on footpaths isn’t enforced, so very much related to this topic.

markpb

Blueshoe wrote: »

Personally I won't be blocking a car lane. Most of my stops are 5 or 10 minutes so until more loading bays are made available to deliver drivers I will continue to park where I can

Blueshoe wrote: »

Necessity rather than convenience.
Options are very limited out there. It's a headache for all involved

You've been given an option and said you won't be using it. You even said yourself that the Guards were okay with it. So it's convenience rather than necessity. You have decided that people driving are more important and cannot be inconvenienced but people walking or cycling are fair game.

A headache is someone having to stop for a few seconds and overtake you if you're parked on the road. A blind person not being able to get past you or a cyclist putting their lives in danger is far more than a headache but you don't realise that because you're too busy worrying about slowing down someone in a car. I don't blame you, it's just the culture in Ireland at the minute.

How would you react if a cyclist parked their bike on the road because there were no spaces beside the shop they're delivering to?

Eamonnator

Blueshoe wrote: »

Necessity rather than convenience.
Options are very limited out there. It's a headache for all involved

Yes, but it shouldn't be a headache for cyclists/pedestrians, it's shouldn't be their problem. Use the limited options.

Chiparus

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Not really. Dealing with cyclists on footpaths isn’t enforced, so very much related to this topic.

DId not know it was an offence.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cyclists-who-use-footpaths-will-not-be-fined-31342974.html

mvt

CramCycle wrote: »

And its very much something that has been flagged by rank and file Gardai as an issue. The paperwork with even minor offences is time consuming. so much so that in a short while it clearly becomes a drain on resources with Supers informing them not to follow up to much on such offences as it takes them off the front line. They need a system like the cops in many US states have. See a car, pull out the device, insert the reg plate, tick the box for the offence, ticket printed, job done. A print out for the windscreen and the FPN sent to the registered address. I have heard it from friends who are gardai and I think the Garda AMA thread on the site covered it a bit as well.

Fairly certain I watched a motorcycle guard use one of these in February.
Just don't think there is the political will to broadly implement these actions.

Blueshoe

markpb wrote: »

You've been given an option and said you won't be using it. You even said yourself that the Guards were okay with it. So it's convenience rather than necessity. You have decided that people driving are more important and cannot be inconvenienced but people walking or cycling are fair game.

A headache is someone having to stop for a few seconds and overtake you if you're parked on the road. A blind person not being able to get past you or a cyclist putting their lives in danger is far more than a headache but you don't realise that because you're too busy worrying about slowing down someone in a car. I don't blame you, it's just the culture in Ireland at the minute.

How would you react if a cyclist parked their bike on the road because there were no spaces beside the shop they're delivering to?

The Garda was ok on that case but I don't think multiple delivery vehicles stopping in the driving lane around the city streets all day everyday day would be legally permitted.

What do cyclists do if their is a part of their route that has no dedicated cycle lane?

Nighttime deliveries with extra shop staff and drivers working throughout the night with the extra cost passed on to consumers might actually be the only way around this for everyone.

Not a hope of it happening though. So nothing changes

magicbastarder

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Not really. Dealing with cyclists on footpaths isn’t enforced, so very much related to this topic.

read the mod note higher up, you were told if you'd any questions to go to PM.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Blueshoe wrote: »

The Garda was ok on that case but I don't think multiple delivery vehicles stopping in the driving lane around the city streets all day everyday day would be legally permitted.

What do cyclists do if their is a part of their route that has no dedicated cycle lane?

Nighttime deliveries with extra shop staff and drivers working throughout the night with the extra cost passed on to consumers might actually be the only way around this for everyone.

Not a hope of it happening though. So nothing changes

It's a cycle lane. Don't block it. Simple as.

If the loading bay is blocked, Park in the driving lane and maybe then Gardai will take enforcement of cycle lanes and loading bays seriously. Enforcement is the key problem here too.

Blueshoe

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

It's a cycle lane. Don't block it. Simple as.

If the loading bay is blocked, Park in the driving lane and maybe then Gardai will take enforcement of cycle lanes and loading bays seriously. Enforcement is the key problem here too.

So complete segregation?

Chips Lovell

In fairness, I don't think this is on individual van drivers. They're not responsible for creating the situation and have to work with what they're given.

If you want a set-up where cycle lanes aren't blocked by vehicles loading, then its up to road designers, building owners, business owners, and suppliers to work together to ensure it happens.

Hurrache

Blueshoe wrote: »

Sorry I didn't see the plan. Can you link it again. I'd be interested in reading that part. Thanks

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Covid_Mobility_Programme_21.5.20_FINAL_WEB.pdf

CrankyHaus

Chips Lovell wrote: »

In fairness, I don't think this is on individual van drivers. They're not responsible for creating the situation and have to work with what they're given.

If you want a set-up where cycle lanes aren't blocked by vehicles loading, then its up to road designers, building owners, business owners, and suppliers to work together to ensure it happens.

Is it possible to have functioning cycle lanes and adequate loading bays for every delivery vehicle to pull up directly in front of every business in the country?

Because that is what they're doing every time they're blocking a cycle lane.

Or should delivery drivers accept that parking safely and legally a short distance away is a necessary inconvenience?

Blueshoe

Hurrache wrote: »

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Covid_Mobility_Programme_21.5.20_FINAL_WEB.pdf

I scrolled through to the nice pictures of the removed loading bays.
The plan about deliveries is non existent. A few lines.
Let's see what happens.

I don't deliver too often thankfully as it's a stressful nightmare but I feel for those who have to do it everyday to earn a living.