Circular Number: 0037/2020

rainbowtrout

Treppen wrote: »

Can anyone explain the logic of giving an exact percentage (with decimal places!) ... As opposed to a grade banding?
After all, when students traditionally get their results it's just bands ?

You can't apply a curve to H1, H2, H3. That's where they end up at the end, but you can apply a curve to marks.

If you don't have marks assigned then the application of the curve would be random. Your best student (who might be capable of 98) might have the curve applied to them and they get a H2, and the student who is only capable of a 90 gets the H1. This way if the curve is applied to move students up or down then the lowest or highest gets moved.

rainbowtrout

derb12 wrote: »

I haven't done it yet, but a colleague warned us about an error on row 19.
I guess the DES tested the first 18 rows and reckoned that should hold!
I haven't heard of a workaround.

DES mustn't be aware of classes of 30 in English/Irish/Maths in some schools!!

r93kaey5p2izun

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You can't apply a curve to H1, H2, H3. That's where they end up at the end, but you can apply a curve to marks.

If you don't have marks assigned then the application of the curve would be random. Your best student (who might be capable of 98) might have the curve applied to them and they get a H2, and the student who is only capable of a 90 gets the H1. This way if the curve is applied to move students up or down then the lowest or highest gets moved.

But you could still rank them with just a grade rather than percentage. Then it would still be the highest person moving up or lowest person moving down etc.

amacca

OH getting a bit flustered with me here

She said she probably has to give two students a H8 I told her not to and let the Dept do the failing..............I think I'm right but if you look at things in the round but out of curiosity whats the general feeling here.

Random sample

amacca wrote: »

OH getting a bit flustered with me here

She said she probably has to give two students a H8 I told her not to and let the Dept do the failing..............I think I'm right but if you look at things in the round but out of curiosity whats the general feeling here.

If H8 was my genuine expectation, and this had been communicated to the student, that’s what I would give. I’ve seen posts online from kids who were expecting to fail higher level, and being recommended by their teacher to drop, but not deciding to gamble on the teacher not failing them. I’d rather fail a student than have a student in the next classroom fail when they don’t deserve it.

amacca

Random sample wrote: »

If H8 was my genuine expectation, and this had been communicated to the student, that’s what I would give. I’ve seen posts online from kids who were expecting to fail higher level, and being recommended by their teacher to drop, but not deciding to gamble on the teacher not failing them. I’d rather fail a student than have a student in the next classroom fail when they don’t deserve it.

Its just I was thinking she is going to have to face these people in the community. They're not going to be getting one up on anyone in the points race with bare pass was my reasoning but at the same time they wont be able to get the hump because she failed them etc etc

r93kaey5p2izun

But if no H8s are given, when usually there would be some in the school, then they could end up bring everyone down during standardisation. That's not fair on everyone else.

amacca

Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »

But if no H8s are given, when usually there would be some in the school, then they could end up bring everyone down during standardisation. That's not fair on everyone else.

True true I suppose.....I'm angry because she really shouldn't be in this position imo............one of them has the sort of 'connections' its better not to talk about also etc.

and in fairness I would be only mildly concerned about the risk....its probably perceived more than reality.

Alex86Eire

km79 wrote: »

Are you providing us with the printers ?

We have to hand sign them so we'll have to print them anyway.

km79

Alex86Eire wrote: »

We have to hand sign them so we'll have to print them anyway.

They might be completing them at home and printing them in school.

Our friend from the forestry and farming forum may not have been aware of that .

Grueller

km79 wrote: »

They might be completing them at home and printing them in school.

Our friend from the forestry and farming forum may not have been aware of that .

Qualified teacher also km79. Worked at it for 8 years and packed it then. I do understand the lack of resources, support etc, tis one of the big reasons I left it.

JDMC2

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2020/05/26/thousands-of-magic-8-balls-to-be-distributed-to-leaving-cert-graders/

Sorry, don’t know how to quote this properly

Treppen

ngunners wrote: »

Surely this is just regular 'explaining' rather than 'mansplaining'. I agree with the rest of your post though.

I think if I start explaining it'll come across as mansplaining because you might be joking.

anyway

tl;dr Teachers know what bias is.

It's not like they are giving us an profoundly enlightening awakening moment where we suddenly realise the reason we gave Johnny the fail, is cos we ACTUALLY JUST HATE THEM.... and then give a supplement to explain it all again :pac:

km79

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-05-28a.html

A shambles

Treppen

Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »

But if no H8s are given, when usually there would be some in the school, then they could end up bring everyone down during standardisation. That's not fair on everyone else.

DES are going to look at JC results if things are outside the usual.
Maybe have a look at those 2 student's JC grade!

I sincerely doubt the DES are going to bump people down from a bare pass to a fail, based on Jc results years ago anyway. But maybe if the OH has people already on a pass, is she going to start bumping them up a bit more to stay ahead of the other 2 oinseachs.

Moody_mona

km79 wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-05-28a.html

A shambles

FFS

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-05-28a.html

A shambles

Always to be expected. Wonder will schools come under pressure to chase up likely candidates that.might not have bothered or been unable to register for whatever reason?

Treppen

km79 wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-05-28a.html

A shambles

Just human nature though. I'm sure every school has the teacher who's always late with reports and returning exams (for very valid reasons of course :pac: ).

ngunners

Treppen wrote: »

I think if I start explaining it'll come across as mansplaining because you might be joking.

anyway

tl;dr Teachers know what bias is.

It's not like they are giving us an profoundly enlightening awakening moment where we suddenly realise the reason we gave Johnny the fail, is cos we ACTUALLY JUST HATE THEM.... and then give a supplement to explain it all again :pac:

I’m aware of what ‘mansplaining’ is but I don’t like the way it gets shoe-horned into every debate. It’s one of those expressions (like virtue-signaling) which is starting to lose all meaning through overuse/misuse.

What’s wrong with ‘being condescending’, or ‘talking down to’?

For the record: Mansplaining: the explanation of something by a man, typically to a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.

Newbie20

They are extending the deadline and then going to chase up on these students to see what the story is, despite the fact that the department have said numerous times that it is “opt in”. So maybe the 2% just don’t want to opt in to calculated grades.

Have any of you been told to hold off on your alignment meeting until the levels are made available to you? We have been told that it will be at least Tuesday before the schools have this and so we shouldnt have our meeting until after that. This thing is seriously dragging now.

History Queen

Newbie20 wrote: »

They are extending the deadline and then going to chase up on these students to see what the story is, despite the fact that the department have said numerous times that it is “opt in”. So maybe the 2% just don’t want to opt in to calculated grades.

Have any of you been told to hold off on your alignment meeting until the levels are made available to you? We have been told that it will be at least Tuesday before the schools have this and so we shouldnt have our meeting until after that. This thing is seriously dragging now.

We've been told the same. It's seriously demoralising the way the education sector and those working in it are treated.

jimmytwotimes 2013

History Queen wrote: »

We've been told the same. It's seriously demoralising the way the education sector and those working in it are treated.

We were told same but ignored it as the document said to proceed. If you're in doubt regarding a students level, just assess them at both levels. No point in holding up the whole show for a few that might switch level at this stage.

I've all forms filled in, just held off on 1 or 2 students til I see they gonna do higher, which I think they will anyway. All details on form done bar level and grade. Dragging it out, for the sake of it, is nonsense

Newbie20

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

We were told same but ignored it as the document said to proceed. If you're in doubt regarding a students level, just assess them at both levels. No point in holding up the whole show for a few that might switch level at this stage.

I've all forms filled in, just held off on 1 or 2 students til I see they gonna do higher, which I think they will anyway. All details on form done bar level and grade. Dragging it out, for the sake of it, is nonsense

Yeah I was thinking of doing the same. Very little is going to change in the meantime if anything at all.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Newbie20 wrote: »

Yeah I was thinking of doing the same. Very little is going to change in the meantime if anything at all.

Can print spares if you have to anyway

Treppen

ngunners wrote: »

I’m aware of what ‘mansplaining’ is but I don’t like the way it gets shoe-horned into every debate. It’s one of those expressions (like virtue-signaling) which is starting to lose all meaning through overuse/misuse.

What’s wrong with ‘being condescending’, or ‘talking down to’?

For the record: Mansplaining: the explanation of something by a man, typically to a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.

I'm re-appropriating the term.

Men can be man-splained to as well.

Same as patronising refers to pater or father, but it's used as a gender neutral term now.

ngunners

Treppen wrote: »

I'm re-appropriating the term.

Men can be man-splained to as well.

Same as patronising refers to pater or father, but it's used as a gender neutral term now.

OK, then one final question and I promise to let the topic drop. Can women 'mansplain'?

LW2018

Has anybody found out what the exact role the Exam Aide will take in this process? there was to be a circular but nothing to date?

Treppen

ngunners wrote: »

OK, then one final question and I promise to let the topic drop. Can women 'mansplain'?

Could women patronise before?
Could men be hysterical?
Could a woman be a chairman?
Yadda yadda

Treppen

LW2018 wrote: »

Has anybody found out what the exact role the Exam Aide will take in this process? there was to be a circular but nothing to date?

Even if no one does it, you can be 100% sure it'll be claimed for.

ethical

Treppen wrote: »

Even if no one does it, you can be 100% sure it'll be claimed for.

But no one will ask who got it!
Public money,we have a right to know and usually its collected by some arse licker! Good luck to them I wouldnt stoop so low!!:(