Circular Number: 0037/2020

RealJohn

I didn’t dispute that.
In fact, I disputed sheaP’s claim that it’s not up to teachers to find out.
That section on reasonable accommodations is not clear though.

Alex86Eire

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It is in no way open to interpretation. It's laughable that you're still arguing that point.

I think the fact that there is such confusion in schools regarding the sentence means its open to interpretation..
People are interpreting it differently.

Treppen

"I have based my estimate on the assumption that any approved reasonable accommodations would have been made available.”

Ya it's a bit weird, if a reasonable accommodation was granted then why wouldn't it be made available?

jimmytwotimes 2013

I don't understand the confusion.

Reasonable accommodations are given each year, they help the students in question.

This list is made available to staff (if it wasn't, it should have been). You apply the logic that a student with RA would be helped with a spelling waiver, extra time etc

If a student doesn't have one, they're "not applicable"

solerina

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It is in no way open to interpretation. It's laughable that you're still arguing that point.

Totally agree, I thought it was very clear what was meant by this point

Blondini

Done!

At last, I can relax..... or can I?

Treppen

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I don't understand the confusion.

Reasonable accommodations are given each year, they help the students in question.

This list is made available to staff (if it wasn't, it should have been). You apply the logic that a student with RA would be helped with a spelling waiver, extra time etc

If a student doesn't have one, they're "not applicable"

In fairness the the box isn't asking whether or not they had one.

"I have based my estimate on the assumption that any approved reasonable accommodations would have been made available.”

It's asking if ('assumption') any approved RA were there that you would have made it available to them (by not docking spelling and grammar etc).
So in a way, it could be interpreted, for every single student "would" you have made it available had they had it... In which case the answer is Yes for all students.
You could follow that logic although would have to ignore the N/A option!!

jimmytwotimes 2013

Treppen wrote: »

In fairness the the box isn't asking whether or not they had one.

"I have based my estimate on the assumption that any approved reasonable accommodations would have been made available.”

It's asking if ('assumption') any approved RA were there that you would have made it available to them (by not docking spelling and grammar etc).
So in a way, it could be interpreted, for every single student "would" you have made it available had they had it... In which case the answer is Yes for all students.
You could follow that logic although would have to ignore the N/A option!!

I think the word "approved" is crucial there. We had received list of approved accommodations at start of April in our school.

They were mostly the students who sat their mocks/ house exams in special centres anyway.

Treppen

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I think the word "approved" is crucial there. We had received list of approved accommodations at start of April in our school.

They were mostly the students who sat their mocks/ house exams in special centres anyway.

Yes that is an interpretation.
Not the only interpretation though.

r93kaey5p2izun

So for those who interpret the RA box as yes for everyone, when would "not applicable " have been appropriate to tick? What do you interpret not applicable as meaning?

Leftwaffe

Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »

So for those who interpret the RA box as yes for everyone, when would "not applicable " have been appropriate to tick? What do you interpret not applicable as meaning?

That's a good question. I've just been telling everyone to put yes, it seems the safest option considering the vagueness of the question.

Big, big issues with the tick the box questions. A decent percentage of have to be rewritten.

Treppen

Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »

So for those who interpret the RA box as yes for everyone, when would "not applicable " have been appropriate to tick? What do you interpret not applicable as meaning?

The yes option would negate the need to use the n/a option

Treppen

Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »

So for those who interpret the RA box as yes for everyone, when would "not applicable " have been appropriate to tick? What do you interpret not applicable as meaning?

The yes option would negate the need to use the n/a option

r93kaey5p2izun

Treppen wrote: »

The yes option would negate the need to use the n/a option

To me that would indicate that the interpretation is probably incorrect, since n/a was in fact included as an option.

Alex86Eire

Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »

To me that would indicate that the interpretation is probably incorrect, since n/a was in fact included as an option.

But if we apply that logic to the first three questions I would struggle to see when you'd use n/a as an option.

"my experience of working with the student in class, and the quality of
their assignments and key assignments (LCA)

my own records of the student’s work, level of achievement

marks, grades, and other subject-specific information available on the
school’s centralised data system"

I didn't tick yes for everyone but I totally understand the different interpretations.

r93kaey5p2izun

Alex86Eire wrote: »

But if we apply that logic to the first three questions I would struggle to see when you'd use n/a as an option.

"my experience of working with the student in class, and the quality of
their assignments and key assignments (LCA)

my own records of the student’s work, level of achievement

marks, grades, and other subject-specific information available on the
school’s centralised data system"

I didn't tick yes for everyone but I totally understand the different interpretations.

It would be only a small number of cases, but each of those could have n/a. A student new to a school shortly before lockdown, or a teacher who took over since lockdown so no experience in class or no records. Some teachers may just not have records outside the school system at all. No data on school system could be for lots of reasons. All three n/a would constitute not enough evidence to grade but one of them could certainly be n/a, in some cases.

rainbowtrout

Not all subjects have project work, so that question doesn't apply in that case. Students doing a subject outside school wouldn't have grades on vsware or the equivalent. Students doing non-curricular languages wouldn't have graded work necessarily.

Treppen

Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »

To me that would indicate that the interpretation is probably incorrect, since n/a was in fact included as an option.

If the logic for selecting Yes hold true, then N/A is extraneous. It's a multiple choice rather than a dichotomy.

RealJohn

This issue isn’t what they intended when they put that question in. What they intended is obvious, and it was obviously intended (in my opinion) to be ‘yes’ for those who’ve been granted RAs, and ‘N/A’ for everyone else.

However, as any of us who have marked state exams knows, you can’t simply take what was obviously intended, you have to take what’s actually written, and what’s actually written is open to interpretation, as both Treppen and I have explained at this stage. The way it’s written, in my opinion, means that N/A only applies in the case that you know that the candidate didn’t even apply for RAs, and since you’re not entitled to know that, that probably only leaves the cases where the SEN coordinator is awarding the marks, or a parent/guardian of the candidate in question is awarding the marks. Otherwise, ‘yes’ is at least valid, if not the most correct box to tick.

Treppen

RealJohn wrote: »

This issue isn’t what they intended when they put that question in. What they intended is obvious, and it was obviously intended (in my opinion) to be ‘yes’ for those who’ve been granted RAs, and ‘N/A’ for everyone else.

However, as any of us who have marked state exams knows, you can’t simply take what was obviously intended, you have to take what’s actually written, and what’s actually written is open to interpretation, as both Treppen and I have explained at this stage. The way it’s written, in my opinion, means that N/A only applies in the case that you know that the candidate didn’t even apply for RAs, and since you’re not entitled to know that, that probably only leaves the cases where the SEN coordinator is awarding the marks, or a parent/guardian of the candidate in question is awarding the marks. Otherwise, ‘yes’ is at least valid, if not the most correct box to tick.

it reminds me of a maths exam question where I was arguing to a bunch of colleagues that there was an ambiguity which opened up another interpretation, in the end I was told to never mind that 'it was obvious as to what it meant', this was despite the fact that a couple of students students continued to see the other interpretation when doing the exam papers as the years went on. It was only a handful, but still there is an ambiguity which shouldn't be there.

Leftwaffe

Does anyone know what you do with withdrawn students who never registered for the levels on the portal? Do we just leave them blank on there? Have a few who never registered but levels are still there from the system.

RealJohn

I believe you’re supposed to assume they’re doing higher level, if you don’t have evidence to the contrary.

Leftwaffe

RealJohn wrote: »

I believe you’re supposed to assume they’re doing higher level, if you don’t have evidence to the contrary.

But for these students on the system, some of them are down as ordinary and foundation for different subjects? Also, what class ID do I give them? Sorry for the questions, I'll prob end up ringing the dept anyway.

Leftwaffe

Esinet portal acting up. Can't even input the grades here this morning. Internal server error.

rainbowtrout

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Does anyone know what you do with withdrawn students who never registered for the levels on the portal? Do we just leave them blank on there? Have a few who never registered but levels are still there from the system.

You should probably be directing your question to the Dept. We have no say in how the data is input.

RealJohn

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

But for these students on the system, some of them are down as ordinary and foundation for different subjects? Also, what class ID do I give them? Sorry for the questions, I'll prob end up ringing the dept anyway.

I was told (and I don’t know, because inputting that sort of thing is not my job) that you assume higher level, if you don’t have evidence to the contrary. If they’re down for ordinary or foundation on something official, that’s your evidence to the contrary, I would think.
I don’t know what a class ID is.

Leftwaffe

Thanks guy. Called the dept. They are being removed from the list but there is a backlog, may take a few days...

Portal down this morning. A bit of a joke to be honest.

lemmno

Is esinet up and running for anyone yet? I was told two hours ago it'd be working again in twenty minutes.

Leftwaffe

lemmno wrote: »

Is esinet up and running for anyone yet? I was told two hours ago it'd be working again in twenty minutes.

Na, it has packed it in today. Today was the day I was to make real progress instead im just sitting here waiting for it to come back up.

I was told 10 minutes at 11. Shambles.

deiseindublin

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Thanks guy. Called the dept. They are being removed from the list but there is a backlog, may take a few days...

Portal down this morning. A bit of a joke to be honest.

*

ESINET is down nationwide today it seems.