Circular Number: 0037/2020

Leftwaffe

This is a joke now. It came back for a few minutes now it is gone again.

lemmno

So fed up of this. Waiting days to get answers, using a system that's unnecessarily complicated, and now that we're ready to finish everything the system isn't working at all.

Leftwaffe

lemmno wrote: »

So fed up of this. Waiting days to get answers, using a system that's unnecessarily complicated, and now that we're ready to finish everything the system isn't working at all.

It is infuriating. Waiting since around 10.30 now to do some work.

The longest 10 minutes I've ever had to wait.

Leftwaffe

I've just called again. They said they can't put a time on how long it will take to be fixed.

lemmno

In that case, I'm giving up until tomorrow morning. What's another wasted day at this point?:(

lemmno

It's working again, get to it quickly!!!

Leftwaffe

lemmno wrote: »

It's working again, get to it quickly!!!

Finally got going on it. I reckon tomorrow will do a lot of it for me. Its pretty user friendly to be honest.

Does anyone know if it would be a good idea to sort each students form As into groups afterwards? Might be handier if needed in future. Arrange them alphabetically.

LW2018

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Finally got going on it. I reckon tomorrow will do a lot of it for me. Its pretty user friendly to be honest.

Does anyone know if it would be a good idea to sort each students form As into groups afterwards? Might be handier if needed in future. Arrange them alphabetically.

We are putting all Form As for each student together in the event of an appeal. I'm stapling the original Form B to the print out 'Pre-validation' and filing them away too. Frustrating with the Portal today but just had to call it a day...this morning. Sorted other paperwork instead. I'm only doing it in the school on a school device so not going on it tonight. I wonder what was the cause of maintenance... hard enough to get answers from them about things

Leftwaffe

I cant do any more now until an issue I sent to the dept is dealt with. I called and an explained and was told they couldn't help at all. Pleaded with the lady as it is a small issue but no. Not available to help.

Couldn't make it up.

r93kaey5p2izun

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

I cant do any more now until an issue I sent to the dept is dealt with. I called and an explained and was told they couldn't help at all. Pleaded with the lady as it is a small issue but no. Not available to help.

Couldn't make it up.

When is the official deadline for completion of entering grades on esinet?

Leftwaffe

Legend Numerous Fig wrote: »

When is the official deadline for completion of entering grades on esinet?

Friday. I could get it done today if an issue was dealt with by dept. It could be days before they get to my query, or hours. Who knows.

Leftwaffe

I find it baffling that the only way you can communicate an issue in relation to the the grades/esinet application with the Dept is via email, with literally no timeframe on an issue being fixed.

They've set a dealine for tomorrow for this to be done. How are we supposed to reach that deadline if they can't deal with issues presented to them? They should have thought this through at the beginning. More people should be answering phones (or some people at least!), queries should be dealt with quickly.

No way I'm reaching the deadline tomorrow at this rate. I would have had it done two days ago if the dept helped.

Treppen

I wouldn't worry, they'll probably extend the deadline.

Leftwaffe

Treppen wrote: »

I wouldn't worry, they'll probably extend the deadline.

I know they will. And I'm not necessarily worried about meeting tomorrow's dealdine at all. Just want to get this done and be finished with it.

lemmno

Got everything submitted yesterday. In all honesty, this is a 2 day job max (in my opinion), if the support had been there and the system was working. It will definitely be extended but I understand why that doesn’t matter to people, all you want is to get everything done and not have it drag out for another week.

Leftwaffe

lemmno wrote: »

Got everything submitted yesterday. In all honesty, this is a 2 day job max (in my opinion), if the support had been there and the system was working. It will definitely be extended but I understand why that doesn’t matter to people, all you want is to get everything done and not have it drag out for another week.

It's a two day job if there was no mistakes made on the forms, system working and proper support. I agree.

Finally got through to someone who helped. A miracle.

Treppen

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

It's a two day job if there was no mistakes made on the forms, system working and proper support. I agree.

Finally got through to someone who helped. A miracle.

Ya sure it's the first time it's being implemented, I'm sure it'll run a lot smoother next year :pac:

rainbowtrout

There's about 700 secondary schools in the country. Allow for grind schools and further education colleges etc that would have students doing Leaving Cert. All in all there probably is no more than 800 individual users. Why can't they provide a system that actually works?

Leftwaffe

The guy from the dept told me they're steeped in emails. Thousands he said. No end to them.

rainbowtrout

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

The guy from the dept told me they're steeped in emails. Thousands he said. No end to them.

The DES this week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8

Treppen

'They can do it in the UK so why can't we do it here?'

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/gcse-a-level-exams-2020-millions-proposed-grades-cut-generous-predictions-england-450236/amp

"Millions of proposed GCSE and A-levels grades could be downgraded by exam boards this summer because teachers have been too generous in their predictions.

According to one estimate, if GCSE grades in England were to be kept in line with 2019’s results, around a third of teachers’ predictions would need to be shifted downward.'

Mardy Bum

Treppen wrote: »

'They can do it in the UK so why can't we do it here?'

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/gcse-a-level-exams-2020-millions-proposed-grades-cut-generous-predictions-england-450236/amp

"Millions of proposed GCSE and A-levels grades could be downgraded by exam boards this summer because teachers have been too generous in their predictions.

According to one estimate, if GCSE grades in England were to be kept in line with 2019’s results, around a third of teachers’ predictions would need to be shifted downward.'

This was always going to be the case. I'd be surprised if it is only a third here. English teachers at least have the experience of predicting - and they are still awful. Imagine here! The class rankings and the percentage given will be very important.

TheValeyard

Treppen wrote: »

'They can do it in the UK so why can't we do it here?'

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/gcse-a-level-exams-2020-millions-proposed-grades-cut-generous-predictions-england-450236/amp

"Millions of proposed GCSE and A-levels grades could be downgraded by exam boards this summer because teachers have been too generous in their predictions.

According to one estimate, if GCSE grades in England were to be kept in line with 2019’s results, around a third of teachers’ predictions would need to be shifted downward.'

Well I for one am truly shocked, shocked I tell ya. No one had any idea or suggestion that could happen

Treppen

Well and good if that % is spread even across schools, but what will be sad is if it goes the news report in the UK where it's based on socio economic or racial grounds where grades are underestimated.

Mardy Bum

Treppen wrote: »

Well and good if that % is spread even across schools, but what will be sad is if it goes the news report in the UK where it's based on socio economic or racial grounds where grades are underestimated.

It will be based on the last three years of results as was stated one would hope. It should be a simple average. It is the fairest way of doing it.

Greensoup

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It will be based on the last three years of results as was stated one would hope. It should be a simple average. It is the fairest way of doing it.

They’ll use the national standardisation bit last using each subjects overall national grade % breakdown which are pretty much the same every year. If you have the Folens diary/yearbook pages 227-229 you ll see them. Geography for example has around 12% getting H2 nationally and 23-24% of students getting a H4 every year. So if you have 17% of your geography group getting a H2 and this ISN’T typical in your school over the last 3 years they’ll downgrade a few.

Treppen

Greensoup wrote: »

They’ll use the national standardisation bit last. It’s based on the subjects overall national grade % breakdown which are pretty much the same every year. If you have the Folens diary/yearbook pages 227-229 you ll see them. Geography for example has around 12% national average getting H2 and 23-24% of students getting a H4 every year. So if you have 17% of your geography group getting a H2 and this ISN’T typical in your school over the last 3 years they’ll downgrade a few.

it ain't necessarily so, they have allowed for variations, but they will refer to 2020 6th years Junior Cert results to see if there are aberrations there also. Well that's what the JMB were told anyway. Sounds fair to me.

Really though, do you think the department is going to start en-masse downgrading thousands of results. If they did it would have to be a software code which looks at the results , compares previous grades, looks at JC then bumps down everyone until the curve has been satisfied.

I suspect they'll let the CAO lottery selection process take care of it at the other end.

It would be a real kick in the face for teachers if the dept starts challenging our professional judgement left right and centre, although it wouldn't be the first time so.....

Just a though: If they start adjusting to fit a curve, they may as well just ask for teacher's opinion on class ranking only (no grade) and then apply it according to the curve.

Greensoup

Treppen wrote: »

it ain't necessarily so, they have allowed for variations, but they will refer to 2020 6th years Junior Cert results to see if there are aberrations there also. Well that's what the JMB were told anyway. Sounds fair to me.

Really though, do you think the department is going to start en-masse downgrading thousands of results. If they did it would have to be a software code which looks at the results , compares previous grades, looks at JC then bumps down everyone until the curve has been satisfied.

I suspect they'll let the CAO lottery selection process take care of it at the other end.

It would be a real kick in the face for teachers if the dept starts challenging our professional judgement left right and centre, although it wouldn't be the first time so.....

Just a though: If they start adjusting to fit a curve, they may as well just ask for teacher's opinion on class ranking only (no grade) and then apply it according to the curve.

The overall subject national average grades will be the same as the last 3 years......Average H1 in higher level geography is about 3.5 % of candidates every year. H2 is around 12.5% of students H3 around 20% and so on. Pretty much the same national result every year since I’ve been correcting them. So this year will be the same give or take .6/7 % on each grade. Obviously some schools have high results with maybe 10% getting H1 in Geo every year while other schools may rarely get a H1. The school stats will show them this. The subject will still average out at 3.5% H1s nationally when every schools results are taken into account. So if any schools subject results are noticeably higher they’ll deal with it. Remember many 2020 students might be in competition with 2021 students for CAO next year so it must be a level playing field......therefore the Dept need to make sure there is no grade inflation and grade breakdown is similar to other years. All in all we’ll get around the average of the last 3 years. Basically if your results are generally in line with your schools previous years and don’t mess with their typical national % per grade they won’t touch them. The Dept don’t have to do much work on seeing if your grades are inflated as schools have inputed form b which gives them a quick average to compare to other years straight away anyway.

Treppen

Greensoup wrote: »

The overall subject national average grades will be the same as the last 3 years......Average H1 in higher level geography is about 3.5 % of candidates every year. H2 is around 12.5% of students H3 around 20% and so on. Pretty much the same national result every year since I’ve been correcting them. So this year will be the same give or take .6/7 % on each grade. Obviously some schools have high results with maybe 10% getting H1 in Geo every year while other schools may rarely get a H1. The school stats will show them this. The subject will still average out at 3.5% H1s nationally when every schools results are taken into account. So if any schools subject results are noticeably higher they’ll deal with it. Remember many 2020 students might be in competition with 2021 students for CAO next year so it must be a level playing field......therefore the Dept need to make sure there is no grade inflation and grade breakdown is similar to other years. All in all we’ll get around the average of the last 3 years. Basically if your results are generally in line with your schools previous years and don’t mess with their typical national % per grade they won’t touch them. The Dept don’t have to do much work on seeing if your grades are inflated as schools have inputed form b which gives them a quick average to compare to other years straight away anyway.

So if you'd typicslly get one or two H1s and this year you'd predict 3 H1s do you think the department will weild the axe?

rainbowtrout

Treppen wrote: »

So if you'd typicslly get one or two H1s and this year you'd predict 3 H1s do you think the department will weild the axe?

They'll have to if every teacher in the country did that, otherwise the rate of H1s will skyrocket in every subject.