Ahmaud Arbery

MeMen2_MoRi_

joe40 wrote: »

Yeah good post, their behavior resulted in the death of a young man. His previous behavior/ record if there is one is totally immaterial.
If I'm been very generous i can concede that it wasn't there intention to kill him but there reckless behavior with firearms directly resulted in his death.
To me that is quite simple they committed a crime and should pay a penalty. I hope the court case has the same finding but we will have to wait and see.

His previous record is a sad attempt to muddy the waters.. it's a case of was this murder or manslaughter there is zero self defense, they went and sought a confrontation while armed with a hand gun and a shot gun.

Guy:Incognito

Donald Trump wrote: »

Can you not just watch the video to try to figure it out for yourself?

.

Can you not just answer why youre twisting and turning.


i did watch the video. Arbery goes around the right hand side of the car when there was another car behind him (the cameraman) . McMichael, having gotten out of the drivers seat for some reason then goes around to the front of the car as Arbery is too.


Now, why did you say this:

Donald Trump wrote: »

Once the fella ran at him, then there was going to have to be someone shot.

Saying that Arbery ran at McMichael . Then when your argument needed it, say that McMichael went around to stop him getting away. Why would he be getting away if he was running at McMichael?

Donald Trump wrote: »

Why did he move around to the other side? You'll have to ask him for the exact reason but my guess is that he was trying to stop him from running away.

Donald Trump

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

His previous record is a sad attempt to muddy the waters.. it's a case of was this murder or manslaughter there is zero self defense, they went and sought a confrontation while armed with a hand gun and a shot gun.

I've seen this point about previous record of the deceased not being relevant.


I've also seen points about the previous record of the shooter as being relevant.


Not expressing an opinion, just pointing it out.

Donald Trump

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Can you not just answer why youre twisting and turning.


i did watch the video. Arbery goes around the right hand side of the car when there was another car behind him (the cameraman) . McMichael, having gotten out of the drivers seat for some reason then goes around to the front of the car as Arbery is too.


Now, why did you say this:



Saying that Arbery ran at McMichael . Then when your argument needed it, say that McMichael went around to stop him getting away. Why would he be getting away if he was running at McMichael?

I don't know what you are on about. I was responding to a question as to why your man got out of the truck and went around to the side of it. He was there for the length of the video, no? I don't think I saw him getting out of the truck in the video but I can watch it again. I just saw him at the side of the truck.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Donald Trump wrote: »

I've seen this point about previous record of the deceased not being relevant.


I've also seen points about the previous record of the shooter as being relevant.


Not expressing an opinion, just pointing it out.

Point it out to anyone that took it up, I didn't. I'm looking at it from what happened that day.

Guy:Incognito

Donald Trump wrote: »

I don't know what you are on about. I was responding to a question as to why your man got out of the truck and went around to the side of it. He was there for the length of the video, no? I don't think I saw him getting out of the truck in the video but I can watch it again. I just saw him at the side of the truck.

Seriously?This is getting tedious . You can read just fine but are trying to muddy it.Youre deliberately picking points and reading it like a child. He obviously got out of the truck, just because you dont see it on the video. Unless you think the truck spawned in the middle of the road with him beside it?

Arbery is running up the road.

The camera car is behind him

The McMichaels are stopped in front.

Travis McMichaels is out of the car at the drivers side.

Arbery runs around the other side

Travis goes from the drivers side, around the door and to the front of the car where he meets Arbery where the struggle starts,

Now, you initially said that Arbery ran at him so someone was going to get shot. Then you changed that to McMichaels moved around the car to Arbery to stop him getting away.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Once the fella ran at him, then there was going to have to be someone shot.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Why did he move around to the other side? You'll have to ask him for the exact reason but my guess is that he was trying to stop him from running away.

How can he both be running away from McMichaels and at him?

Through all this, there was no need for him to get out of the car at all. They knew the police were nearby

GY_1980

Overheal wrote: »

They clearly lacked the reasonable suspicion.

They chased him down for 4 minutes. Open handed. Wearing shorts. T shirt. Yet they suspected him of stealing power tools and or fishing gear and or... ?

No reasonable suspicion, then, that he had committed a felony.

It’s no wonder the Greg McMichael had for years failed to get properly certified for arrest and use of force.

That’s quite possible. I’d assume that’s the reason the prosecutors have brought charges for murder.

The defence will still argue on the reasonable suspicion aspect though. If they show the defendants had a right to make a citizens arrest, they will win the case. Also, as I’ve stated earlier, if the Federal hate crime investigation finds any evidence of racial motive in the killing, they will have no real defence.

Das Reich

joe40 wrote: »

Yeah good post, their behavior resulted in the death of a young man.

His behaviour maybe. Its ridiculous that so many people from Latin America emigrate to that country for work and manage to make some money while some privileged people born there with visa and english choose to steal.

Guy:Incognito

GY_1980 wrote: »

The defence will still argue on the reasonable suspicion aspect though. .

The defence will argue that a unicorn came down and shot him if they thought itd help. Doesnt make it true.

Donald Trump

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Seriously?This is getting tedious . You can read just fine but are trying to muddy it.Youre deliberately picking points and reading it like a child. He obviously got out of the truck, just because you dont see it on the video. Unless you think the truck spawned in the middle of the road with him beside it?

Arbery is running up the road.

The camera car is behind him

The McMichaels are stopped in front.

Travis McMichaels is out of the car at the drivers side.

Arbery runs around the other side

Travis goes from the drivers side, around the door and to the front of the car where he meets Arbery where the struggle starts,

Now, you initially said that Arbery ran at him so someone was going to get shot. Then you changed that to McMichaels moved around the car to Arbery to stop him getting away.






How can he both be running away from McMichaels and at him?

Through all this, there was no need for him to get out of the car at all. They knew the police were nearby

What are you on about.


1) Someone asked why your man was at the side of the truck.
2) I responded and said you'd have to ask him but I presume it was to stop the now deceased from running away.


I actually said the point a bit sarcastically because I thought it was obvious, no? Why else do you think he stood to the side of the truck? Is there another reason that you can think of? Do you think maybe that he was just giving him a round of applause and encouragement to continue his run like the crowd do along a marathon route?



What is your issue? Is it with the word "away" in "running away"?



Here's another mind blower for you. Hypothetical example. Suppose that someone steals your car and the guards set up roadblocks to stop him from driving away. But then he drives towards them and crashes into them. How could they have been trying to stop him from driving away if drove into him?* . Kaboom. Is your mind blown yet?




Are you just looking for an argument over the internet or something? Seriously. Just watch the fucking video yourself.



(*may contain more sarcasm)

Overheal

GY_1980 wrote: »

That’s quite possible. I’d assume that’s the reason the prosecutors have brought charges for murder.

The defence will still argue on the reasonable suspicion aspect though. If they show the defendants had a right to make a citizens arrest, they will win the case. Also, as I’ve stated earlier, if the Federal hate crime investigation finds any evidence of racial motive in the killing, they will have no real defence.

It’s up in the air whether Barr (and really, by extension, Trump) makes a political issue out of the case. It’s still Barr’s final call whether the DOJ prosecutes for a federal hate crime. So far, this case isn’t mired in partisan politics, if they think it would cost them the south to prosecute the hate crime though, will they?

NackJapier

All this to bring in a new law. When this ends in the USA you'll be apart of a crime if you film it and don't snitch. Why do Irish people care? People shot every 20 minutes by cops in America. Ever wonder why their SHOWING you this one?

Guy:Incognito

Donald Trump wrote: »

What are you on about.


1) Someone asked why your man was at the side of the truck.
2) I responded and said you'd have to ask him but I presume it was to stop the now deceased from running away.


I actually said the point a bit sarcastically because I thought it was obvious, no? Why else do you think he stood to the side of the truck? Is there another reason that you can think of? Do you think maybe that he was just giving him a round of applause and encouragement to continue his run like the crowd do along a marathon route?



What is your issue? Is it with the word "away" in "running away"?



Here's another mind blower for you. Hypothetical example. Suppose that someone steals your car and the guards set up roadblocks to stop him from driving away. But then he drives towards them and crashes into them. How could they have been trying to stop him from driving away if drove into him?* . Kaboom. Is your mind blown yet?




Are you just looking for an argument over the internet or something? Seriously. Just watch the fucking video yourself.



(*may contain more sarcasm)

More word salad. I asked you why he was out of the car. youve been spouting crap since.


How about instead of introducing other stories to dilute your replies to nothing so people just move on you go through and just reply to whats said

Overheal

Das Reich wrote: »

His behaviour maybe. Its ridiculous that so many people from Latin America emigrate to that country for work and manage to make some money while some privileged people born there with visa and english choose to steal.

What are you implying?

He didn’t steal anything. Police didn’t find anything dropped by the suspect afaik, and the McMichaels didn’t report seeing Arbery holding anything. He was wearing shorts and a t-shirt.

I have no idea what immigration issues have to do with this case. Hundreds of miles from the border, too.

Overheal

NackJapier wrote: »

All this to bring in a new law. When this ends in the USA you'll be apart of a crime if you film it and don't snitch. Why do Irish people care? People shot every 20 minutes by cops in America. Ever wonder why their SHOWING you this one?

There already are laws like that. Withholding evidence.

I’m sure the reason this is getting national attention has nothing to do with the killers going free for 2 months or the convening of a grand jury. You’ll have to be more specific about what your consternation is at the public’s interest in the case.

Calhoun

I think that regardless of what Ahmaud Arbery did his killing illustrates whats wrong with America today. Why have a justice system if citizens can be judge, jury and executioner.

It just seems so strange to me that this fact seems to be lost, and his past ect seems to be dragged up as a justification.

I guess though thats just the perspective from someone living in a country where we have tight gun control and thankfully so.

Donald Trump

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

More word salad. I asked you why he was out of the car. youve been spouting crap since.

lol.


You can't even express what your issue is in comprehensible form.


I gather that you think that it is impossible for someone to be running away if they are run towards someone else.



The "running away" here is yourself from logic.


Not sure why you are so eager to try to pick fights over nothing. Are you having a bad day?

2u2me

Calhoun wrote: »

I think that regardless of what Ahmaud Arbery his killing illustrates whats wrong with America today. Why have a justice system if citizens can be judge, jury and executioner.

It just seems so strange to me that this fact seems to be lost, and his past ect seems to be dragged up as a justification.

I guess though thats just the perspective from someone living in a country where we have tight gun control and thankfully so.

Exactly. Vigilantism is among the worst -isms.

Guy:Incognito

Donald Trump wrote: »

lol.


You can't even express what your issue is in comprehensible form.




The "running away" here is yourself from logic.


Not sure why you are so eager to try to pick fights over nothing. Are you having a bad day?

Ive explained numerous times. You just pick a part and claim not to understand

Donald Trump wrote: »

I gather that you think that it is impossible for someone to be running away if they are run towards someone else.

He wasnt running at McMichaels, he went around the other side of the car, therefore not running at the guy with the gun. McMichaels went moved around to the front of the car to head off Arbery,

You tried to make out he had no choice but to confront Arbery because he was running at him. He very much did. He never had to get outof the car in the first place. Its not his job. He then didnt have to go around to the front of the car to head off Arbery because Arbery had gone to the other side to avoid him.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Once the fella ran at him, then there was going to have to be someone shot.

Why was someone going to get shot? All he had to do was not get out of the car (which he did before the video starts, so dont go that stupid angle again) and Arbery wouldnt have been anywhere near him.

So why did he try to stop him running away., again, not is job and they knew the police were near. He ran at Arbery to stop him getting away, Arbery didnt run at him

Donald Trump wrote: »

Why did he move around to the other side? You'll have to ask him for the exact reason but my guess is that he was trying to stop him from running away.

GY_1980

Overheal wrote: »

It’s up in the air whether Barr (and really, by extension, Trump) makes a political issue out of the case. It’s still Barr’s final call whether the DOJ prosecutes for a federal hate crime. So far, this case isn’t mired in partisan politics, if they think it would cost them the south to prosecute the hate crime though, will they?

When it comes to hate crimes, the Feds are straight down the middle. They’ll crucify the defendants if this was a racially motivated killing.

Overheal

Donald Trump wrote: »

lol.


You can't even express what your issue is in comprehensible form.


I gather that you think that it is impossible for someone to be running away if they are run towards someone else.



The "running away" here is yourself from logic.


Not sure why you are so eager to try to pick fights over nothing. Are you having a bad day?

I agree word salad or not it’s good manners to unpack it when it makes a reasonable stab at rational argument.

Donald Trump

Overheal wrote: »

I agree word salad or not it’s good manners to unpack it when it makes a reasonable stab at rational argument.

So what do you think?
Do you also think it was impossible that the man was trying to stop white t-shirt from running away because he actually ran towards him a few seconds later?


This is gas that this has gone on so many posts. For a simple comment I made that someone else apparently just can't fathom. It was only a remark in response to another question.

2u2me

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

We're talking about the situation that happened 5 minutes after that and you know this

This is the crucial part. If this all happened at the building site within seconds of them discovering each other it might be a different story entirely.

But they chased him down in cars with guns. Got out of the car and engaged him. No defence here.

Donald Trump

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

He wasnt running at McMichaels, he went around the other side of the car, therefore not running at the guy with the gun. McMichaels went moved around to the front of the car to head off Arbery,

It is pretty clear in the video that as soon as the fella rounded the front of the truck he darted towards the left and at the fella with the gun. You make it like the fella with the gun darted across and was now blocking his route on the right hand side. That is not what is seen in the video

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You tried to make out he had no choice but to confront Arbery because he was running at him. He very much did. He never had to get outof the car in the first place. Its not his job. He then didnt have to go around to the front of the car to head off Arbery because Arbery had gone to the other side to avoid him.

He did not have to get out of the car. But he did. And once your man ran at him and grabbed the gun then someone was going to get shot. At this stage, fella on the back of the truck had not pulled his gun out yet. White t-shirt fella might have thought there was only one gun.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why was someone going to get shot? All he had to do was not get out of the car (which he did before the video starts, so dont go that stupid angle again) and Arbery wouldnt have been anywhere near him.

So why did he try to stop him running away., again, not is job and they knew the police were near. He ran at Arbery to stop him getting away, Arbery didnt run at him

You must have seen a different video.


The road is not walled. There are no ditches or hedges. Your man knew he was being chased. He rounded the front of the truck and made a sharp 90 degree turn to the left and at the fella with the gun. That is obvious from the footage. Perhaps he was justified in doing so as the conventional advice is to run towards someone with a gun who is about to shoot you if you cannot run away. I think he could have run away and off road to the side. Maybe you will argue that he shouldn't have had to do that or had a right to be on the road. That as it may be. But as I said above, I'd rather be alive and in the wrong than dead and in the right


Anyway, have enough of this thread for a while. Enjoy!

Overheal

Donald Trump wrote: »

So what do you think?
Do you also think it was impossible that the man was trying to stop white t-shirt from running away because he actually ran towards him a few seconds later?


This is gas that this has gone on so many posts. For a simple comment I made that someone else apparently just can't fathom. It was only a remark in response to another question.

Can you unload and rephrase the question? Anything’s possible?

Donald Trump

Overheal wrote: »

Can you unload and rephrase the question? Anything’s possible?

I'll answer this before I go.


I was initially responding to a question asking why your man had moved to the side of the truck. I had responded with the (what I thought was obvious) suggestion that maybe he wanted to stop the other fella from running away. I did not think much of the remark at the time.


A few posts later I pointed out that the fella in the white t-shirt is shown running towards shotgun fella in the video.


Other poster says that that was somehow a contradiction. I still don't really understand why he thinks that.

Guy:Incognito

Donald Trump wrote: »

He did not have to get out of the car. But he did. And once your man ran at him and grabbed the gun then someone was going to get shot. At this stage, fella on the back of the truck had not pulled his gun out yet. White t-shirt fella might have thought there was only one gun.
!

He didnt just get out of the car then Arbery ran at him. He got out of the car while Arbery is coming down the road at some point. Then, when Arbery goes around to the right yo avoid him and the car, McMichaels goes from the left of the car to the front to head Arbery off.

He initiated all the contact, from initially starting the chase , to the final part where the struggle starts and Arbery gets shot.

Donald Trump wrote: »

I was initially responding to a question asking why your man had moved to the side of the truck. I had responded with the (what I thought was obvious) suggestion that maybe he wanted to stop the other fella from running away. I did not think much of the remark at the time.


A few posts later I pointed out that the fella in the white t-shirt is shown running towards shotgun fella in the video.


.

He clearly changes direction well before getting near to McMichaels car, nevermind to him, to avoid him. McMichaels then goes towards him to head him off.

So he had to go toward Arbery to stop him getting away but apparently Arbery was coming at him in such a way that it was inevitable someone was getting shot according to you

NackJapier

Your all actually crazy lads.

He was literally on property he shouldn't have being on, wasn't his!

Fair enough didn't deserve to die but wanna know what's important?

IF HE NEVER TRESPASSED ON THAT PROPERTY HE'D STILL BE ALIVE TODAY!

Like let's really make it simple - had he NOT went on property that WAS NOT HIS. He would STILL BE ALIVE.

Danzy

NackJapier wrote: »

On him at a basketball game? A high school basketball game? Why does he need a gun to attend? And why did he run from police at said basketball game when they tried searching him?

Also it I'm a known thief. Snooping around OTHER PEOPLES PROPERTY. After being caught at it already only to do it again.

I DESERVE ALL THE KARMA COMING MY WAY.

Mate your a bit soft defending a black dude thousands of miles away I assume your a social justice warrior when offline also?

Mind boggling to think that the poster can describe carrying a gun to school in such terms.

If it didn't conflict with his personal objectives he would rightly point out that it was very serious.

Kidchameleon

pjohnson wrote: »

Ulike the redneck Batman he wasnt an overweight lazy murdering waste of skin

What has his appearance got to do with anything? One would think you are clutching at straws because you have nothing of substance to say about him.