Ahmaud Arbery

joe40

Donald Trump wrote: »

I didn't say solely. I'd say the majority of it lies with them. The US courts can decide whether that in 90% or 99% or 99.999%

Fair enough, so likewise if someone confronts me with a weapon in a Dublin street and I try to disarm them I could be possibly 10% to blame for any injuries I receive. Depending on what the court says.
Not sure I agree with that.

Donald Trump

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

When the video starts, Travis McMichaels is standing to the left of the car, at the drivers door. Arbery is running down the road, towards their car, being chased by the camera car.

He then cuts right to go around the right hand side of the car, the opposite side Travis McMichaels is on .

Travis McMichaels then moves from the left, to the front, to head Arbery off.

Thats where the struggle starts.

If Travis had stayed at the left of the car where he was, Arbery continues to run off down the road.

I don't know why you are arguing about this. It's in the video. Shotgun might have been moving towards him alright but it wasn't clear from the video how far across he was as you couldn't see him. White t-shirt did run at him then. Perhaps out of panic. Who knows. Your argument would be clear if he had pulled the trigger before your man got level with the truck or if he had continued on straight past the truck ad was shot in the back. That didn't happen though. It wouldn't take all the blame off shotgun but he might have panicked as well. Fella on the back of the truck on the phone wasn't exactly in a sniper position either. Took him a second or two to react and pull out his own gun.

ohnonotgmail

Donald Trump wrote: »

I don't know. As I said earlier in the thread I don't support the death penalty or anything like that.





Ironically I said it in the context of people being killed when committing crimes (I think I said it in relation to Frog Ward).




Are you ok with it though? Genuine question

im generally against it because innocent people could be convicted and wrongly executed. in this case that is not an issue.

LillySV

Gatling wrote: »

But he was unarmed and had committed no crime .


He got arrested and probation but it's made out on here that he was some major crime lord .


He was in fear for his life and justifiably so ,he was executed moments later

Totally didn’t deserve to be shot ... all I’m tryin to point out is that there is a lot frightened people in USA and all it takes is the wrong move or quick action ... someone feels your a threat... your shot ...

Donald Trump

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I mean, you've already said before that he moved from the side to stop Arbery from running away




So, together with your opinion that Arbery going to the construction site leads to him getting shot, surely McMichael doing what he did (moving from where he was to where Arbery was going) is what resulted in the confrontation.

I'm not getting into this again with you. I can't understand your obsession with that. I was just responding a a hypothetical question where someone asked why he was at the side of the truck. I don't get your point.

ohnonotgmail

LillySV wrote: »

Totally didn’t deserve to be shot ... all I’m tryin to point out is that there is a lot frightened people in USA and all it takes is the wrong move or quick action ... someone feels your a threat... your shot ...

well then perhaps dont go around confronting people with no legal basis

Gatling

Donald Trump wrote: »

. Perhaps out of panic. Who knows. Your argument would be clear if he had pulled the trigger before your man got level with the truck or if he had continued on straight past the truck ad was shot in the back.

Shooting a unarmed man 3 times with a shotgun at point blank range isn't an accident or something you do out of panic It's a execution

Guy:Incognito

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'm not getting into this again with you. I can't understand your obsession with that. I was just responding a a hypothetical question where someone asked why he was at the side of the truck. I don't get your point.

No, we moved on from that. He was at the side of the truck because he had been driving it and got out.

Its the next move that causes issues for your narrative where he moves from the side, to the front to head Arbery off because he went around the other side. That starts the struggle.

Donald Trump

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

im generally against it because innocent people could be convicted and wrongly executed. in this case that is not an issue.

So you can't give a straight answer?


Are you against it or not?



Or as your answer appears to imply, you are for it for the people you deem guilty enough ... which means you are for it.



My own opinion is that nobody has a right to decide to take another persons life. Whether that is a man on a truck with a gun or a judge.

Guy:Incognito

LillySV wrote: »

Totally didn’t deserve to be shot ... all I’m tryin to point out is that there is a lot frightened people in USA and all it takes is the wrong move or quick action ... someone feels your a threat... your shot ...

Yeah, the wrong action like getting in your truck and chasing a man up and down a road with guns in 2 cars when you haven't seen him do anything wrong.

ohnonotgmail

Donald Trump wrote: »

So you can't give a straight answer?


Are you against it or not?



Or as your answer appears to imply, you are for it for the people you deem guilty enough ... which means you are for it.



My own opinion is that nobody has a right to decide to take another persons life. Whether that is a man on a truck with a gun or a judge.

my answer is quite clear. i'm not sure how it could be any clearer. i'm sorry if that offends you.

Donald Trump

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

my answer is quite clear. i'm not sure how it could be any clearer. i'm sorry if that offends you.

Jesus. Afraid to give a straight answer.

im generally against it because innocent people could be convicted and wrongly executed. in this case that is not an issue.

So you are not against it. Grand.





BTW, 42% of people on death row are black. So good luck with reconciling that with your other virtue signalling.

ohnonotgmail

Donald Trump wrote: »

Jesus. Afraid to give a straight answer.





So you are not against it. Grand.





BTW, 42% of people on death row are black. So good luck with reconciling that with your other virtue signalling.

you keep saying this to me. it is crazy stalker behaviour. probably best if you dont respond to my posts any more. i wont be responding to yours

Donald Trump

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you keep saying this to me. it is crazy stalker behaviour. probably best if you dont respond to my posts any more. i wont be responding to yours

Ah caught out. No worries.



My position is fairly clear. 100% against the right for anyone to take someone else's life


Yours is now clear too. It is ok for an individual to take a life if you yourself think the person deserved it.



At least you've found some common ground with people (not on this site but probably on more extreme sites) that think your man deserved to die for trespassing.


And that's the first step in any reconciliation - finding your common ground!

degsie

Another decent thread turns toxic, I'm out!

MeMen2_MoRi_

https://youtu.be/JQyssmg9Veo

William Bryan arrested 2 felony charges.. there is more video evidence besides what has been leaked..

ShatterAlan

blinding wrote: »

No Court has decided a Murder happened ! !

That's not how it works.


If someone is found bound and gagged and a knife planted into their back that they themselves could never have inflicted upon themselves, then a murder has occurred.



A killing at the hands of someone else, and intentional. Now if you want to get all Poirot and delineate from that, then that is your wont.


There does NOT have to be a murder suspect or even a murder convict to determine whether or not a murder has transpired.



A court decides if someone is guilty of that murder.


John F Kennedy was murdered. The fact that nobody went on trial and was convicted does not negate the murder.


So please, cop on.

Donald Trump

Not sure of the point of the technicalities, but if you are getting into that end of things, isn't that what an inquest is for? To officially determine and record the cause of death?

The judges over there can sort it out. It doesn't look good for the "defendants" but they'll have their day in court

ShatterAlan

Donald Trump wrote: »

Is that what you think?


Because I never said that.


BTW, in the video, the armed men do not approach him. They do set up in his way, but it is him who runs towards them if you want to be pedantic.

And yet it is people like you who call people terrorists and slam them into Gitmo without trial because armed men "set up in their way" and they had the temerity to not call it cricket.


Stopping someome's freedom of movement is classified and codified under unlawful detention and/OR kidnapping.



If you want to run after somebody and prevent them freedom of passage, then you had better have a very good lawyer.....and even if you have the best...you will LOSE.

Not only will you lose but you will spend a lot of money fighting a counter suit and a violation of constitutional rights case.

Donald Trump

ShatterAlan wrote: »

And yet it is people like you who call people terrorists and slam them into Gitmo without trial because armed men "set up in their way" and they had the temerity to not call it cricket.


Stopping someome's freedom of movement is classified and codified under unlawful detention and/OR kidnapping.



If you want to run after somebody and prevent them freedom of passage, then you had better have a very good lawyer.....and even if you have the best...you will LOSE.

Not only will you lose but you will spend a lot of money fighting a counter suit and a violation of constitutional rights case.

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to put into words there.

Gatling

Donald Trump wrote: »

BTW, 42% of people on death row are black.

How many of them are innocent ?

Donald Trump

Gatling wrote: »

How many of them are innocent ?

Strangely enough, I don't have that figure to hand.




Regardless, it doesn't matter. I don't think that individuals (whether acting in official capacity on on their own terms) should be allow to just calmly decide that it is ok to kill someone else for whatever reason and then go and do it.



You are free to think differently.

ShatterAlan

blinding wrote: »

Mr Arbery would be alive if he had not tried to grab a legally held fire arm.

I am enamoured by not only your nasty posts but also by those who thank them, yet don't wade in with an opinion.

ShatterAlan

Danzy wrote: »

That is your opinion. I'm just glad his neighbours have the burden of his thuggery lifted from them.

Isn't it always middle class whites outraged by the death of some thug but the people who they lived near and endured them and are not free of it aren't...

Not everything is about race. The greatest benefit of this unfortunate incident is to his African American neighbours.

The ones who demonstrated and petitioned to have charges brought against the McMichaels?

ShatterAlan

Danzy wrote: »

I hate to break it to you, I could care less about his skin colour.

The vernacular being coloured and that must reference his skin colour, that's off the wall desperation and twisting to meet your need.

Look you have your need to be a moral crusader, a modern day Jesuit Priest.

The choice of Jesuit is deliberate. It's the mindset.

Oh boy. Now we know what we're dealing with.

ELM327

Donald Trump wrote: »

Jesus. Afraid to give a straight answer.





So you are not against it. Grand.





BTW, 42% of people on death row are black. So good luck with reconciling that with your other virtue signalling.

Along with that, the biggest killer of black folks in shootings, is other black folks.

Overheal

ELM327 wrote: »

Along with that, the biggest killer of black folks in shootings, is other black folks.

What’s the argument, here? That race motivated killings don’t happen?

ELM327

Overheal wrote: »

What’s the argument, here? That race motivated killings don’t happen?

No, we've seen from the police incident that they do.
The point is the race argument is irrelevant to this thread.


Let the police thread not derail this one, let's stay to the facts, which are a young man seen running from a vacant property after casing the joint, attacked two men who tried to instigate a citizens arrest. Then got shot.

ELM327

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Oh boy. Now we know what we're dealing with.

In US English that's a common idiom.

Gatling

ELM327 wrote: »

No, we've seen from the police incident that they do.
The point is the race argument is irrelevant to this thread.


Let the police thread not derail this one, let's stay to the facts, which are a young man seen running from a vacant property after casing the joint, attacked two men

Are you for real casing the joint and then attacked two armed in vehicles .

Talking about rewriting history