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Ahmaud Arbery

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  • Options
    #572
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,492 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    No, we've seen from the police incident that they do.
    The point is the race argument is irrelevant to this thread.


    Let the police thread not derail this one, let's stay to the facts, which are a young man seen running from a vacant property after casing the joint, attacked two men who tried to instigate a citizens arrest. Then got shot.

    Black on black homicide exists

    Therefore, 3 whites killing a black man is irrespective of race?

    I have trouble following your logic here.


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    #573
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,009 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Gatling wrote: »
    Are you for real casing the joint and then attacked two armed in vehicles .

    Talking about rewriting history
    Which part did not happen? Factually, please point to a part that did not happen.
    Overheal wrote: »
    Black on black homicide exists

    Therefore, 3 whites killing a black man is irrespective of race?

    I have trouble following your logic here.
    No, the logic is that we have no basis to believe beyond reasonable doubt that the motivation was racism.


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    #574
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    ELM327 wrote: »
    No, we've seen from the police incident that they do.
    The point is the race argument is irrelevant to this thread.


    Let the police thread not derail this one, let's stay to the facts, which are a young man seen running from a vacant property after casing the joint, attacked two men who tried to instigate a citizens arrest. Then got shot.

    Oh boy..

    The camera guy has charges for felony murder and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment, so good luck with the citizen arrest narrative


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    #575
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,492 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Which part did not happen? Factually, please point to a part that did not happen.

    No, the logic is that we have no basis to believe beyond reasonable doubt that the motivation was racism.

    ...because black on black crime exists.

    Yeah still not following your logic here.


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    #576
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,492 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    That’s what I’ll do. The next time someone calls up a murder of a black man killing someone white I will say

    “Yeah but whites still kill whites therefore not a hate crime BOOM /drops mic”


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    #577
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,009 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    Oh boy..

    The camera guy has charges for felony murder and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment, so good luck with the citizen arrest narrative
    Well the citizen arrest is what has been put as a defense, so in the absence of a conviction to the contrary, is what I will believe. Innocent until proven otherwise.


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    #578
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ELM327 wrote: »
    No, we've seen from the police incident that they do.
    The point is the race argument is irrelevant to this thread.


    Let the police thread not derail this one, let's stay to the facts, which are a young man seen running from a vacant property after casing the joint, attacked two men who tried to instigate a citizens arrest. Then got shot.

    not seen by the people who tried to make the citizens arrest so not a legitimate citizens arrest.


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    #579
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Which part did not happen? Factually, please point to a part that did not happen.

    He wasn't casing the joint ,he walked thought did steal anything didn't touch anything ,
    The property wasn't in anyway secured hence why kids and other people were able to walk around the place and yet no one was chased by armed men ,
    But the one black man had to be chased and executed
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #580
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Well the citizen arrest is what has been put as a defense, so in the absence of a conviction to the contrary, is what I will believe. Innocent until proven otherwise.

    A citizen arrest while armed with a hand gun and a shot gun?

    Travis exited the pick up armed with a shot gun, his father is in the bed of the pick up with a phone in one hand and gun in the other...

    How do you make a citizen arrest with your hands full?


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    #581
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Well the citizen arrest is what has been put as a defense, so in the absence of a conviction to the contrary, is what I will believe. Innocent until proven otherwise.

    You have just accused Arbery of casing a joint. I suppose innocent until proven guilty only applies where it suits


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    #582
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Overheal wrote: »
    What’s the argument, here? That race motivated killings don’t happen?

    I think it's more that if the facts can be buried deep enough in ot rubbish about other black people or stuff Archery did on other dates before 3 people decided to chase him in their cars and end up shooting him, the narrative can be left ambiguous with him getting his "fair share" of the blame.


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    #583
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Which part did not happen? Factually, please point to a part that did not happen.
    .

    We've been through this and you've been here for the whole lot and you've read it.

    They chased him for 4 minutes in their cars. Then one of them got out of the car and moved around from the side to the front to head him off when Arbery tried to avoid him by changing direction and going around the other side.

    How long before you pretend to not know again?


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    #584
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ELM327 wrote: »
    , attacked two men who tried to instigate a citizens arrest. .

    That's a lie


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    #585
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,856 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    Oh boy..

    The camera guy has charges for felony murder and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment, so good luck with the citizen arrest narrative




    Just FYI, "felony murder" means that you are charged with committing a felony that led to a person's death.


    So say for example you break into a house to burgle it and the owner hears you in the other room and panics and jumps out the window to escape and dies - then you can possibly be charged with felony murder.


    Before anyone loses their head, I am not making any comments on the facts or otherwise of this case. I am only explaining what "felony murder" means. It is technically not the same as being charged with "normal" murder. ("Normal" meaning what an individual would usually understand by the term - i.e. having intent to kill someone and then doing it).


    If you do want to consider the relevance to the above where poster says that the person was charged with two offences - there would necessarily need to be two offences - there would have to be an underlying felony offence first. But they are effectively the same offence in terms of what he did.


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    #586
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,467 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Just FYI, "felony murder" means that you are charged with committing a felony that led to a person's death.


    So say for example you break into a house to burgle it and the owner hears you in the other room and panics and jumps out the window to escape and dies - then you can possibly be charged with felony murder.


    Before anyone loses their head, I am not making any comments on the facts or otherwise of this case. I am only explaining what "felony murder" means. It is technically not the same as being charged with "normal" murder. ("Normal" meaning what an individual would usually understand by the term - i.e. having intent to kill someone and then doing it).


    If you do want to consider the relevance to the above where poster says that the person was charged with two offences - there would necessarily need to be two offences - there would have to be an underlying felony offence first. But they are effectively the same offence in terms of what he did.

    not much comfort to the camera man. the penalty for felony murder is the same as it is for murder. the death penalty awaits him


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    #587
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Just FYI, "felony murder" means that you are charged with committing a felony that led to a person's death.


    So say for example you break into a house to burgle it and the owner hears you in the other room and panics and jumps out the window to escape and dies - then you can possibly be charged with felony murder.


    Before anyone loses their head, I am not making any comments on the facts or otherwise of this case. I am only explaining what "felony murder" means. It is technically not the same as being charged with "normal" murder. ("Normal" meaning what an individual would usually understand by the term - i.e. having intent to kill someone and then doing it).


    If you do want to consider the relevance to the above where poster says that the person was charged with two offences - there would necessarily need to be two offences - there would have to be an underlying felony offence first. But they are effectively the same offence in terms of what he did.

    I understood that from the link I posted last night about William Bryan being arrested

    My guess would be why the McMichaels don't have the false imprisonment laid against them is they have greater charges against them, where as Bryan tried to portray himself as only a witness to what unfolded, when in fact he was on it.


  • Options
    #588
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,856 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    not much comfort to the camera man. the penalty for felony murder is the same as it is for murder. the death penalty awaits him




    I wasn't trying to comfort him. I doubt he is reading boards.ie.


    Point is that the difference between being charged with false imprisonment + felony murder or false imprisonment + murder is that in the former, if he is not guilty of false imprisonment, there is no felony murder to try. In the latter, he could be found not guilty of false imprisonment and still be tried for murder separately. For the felony murder, there would have to be a link proven between the felony and the death too. You can prove it on here if you want, but it will be up to US courts, not boards.ie




    As I said earlier, I do not support the death penalty in general. You are free to believe otherwise. I am seeing a strange correlation between posters supporting the death penalty and those apparently most focused on the racial aspects. I had not expected that tbh.


  • Options
    #589
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,856 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    I understood that from the link I posted last night about William Bryan being arrested

    My guess would be why the McMichaels don't have the false imprisonment laid against them is they have greater charges against them, where as Bryan tried to portray himself as only a witness to what unfolded, when in fact he was on it.




    I think that for the video fella, they need to find him guilty of committing the felony, and then show that that felony led to the man's death and the "felony murder" is more or less just added in on top of that in terms of severity of sentence.


    They don't have to prove any intent on his part. It doesn't matter whether he intended to kill him or not. It only matters that he committed the felony and that it lead to your mans death (with of course a reasonable link between the two - again I am not commenting on that link. I think the link would be clear in this case but I don't know the legal angles)


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    #590
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    I think that for the video fella, they need to find him guilty of committing the felony, and then show that that felony led to the man's death and the "felony murder" is more or less just added in on top of that in terms of severity of sentence.


    They don't have to prove any intent on his part. It doesn't matter whether he intended to kill him or not. It only matters that he committed the felony and that it lead to your mans death (with of course a reasonable link between the two - again I am not commenting on that link. I think the link would be clear in this case but I don't know the legal angles)

    They needed a "lead in" charge for Bryan, so they could get the felony murder charge is the way I've understood from the clip I shared. He was saying they have more then enough proof (self incriminating evidence ie more video) that Bryan was not just a witness.

    Like for talk sake, ahmaud surrenders to the McMichaels he's sat on the ground guns pointing at him, ahmaud then has a change of heart and jumps up looks to push one the McMichaels away to make a run for it, he's then shot and killed, I think the charges would possibly be the same as Bryan is facing.. false imprisonment, and felony murder.


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    #591
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    lol.


    You can't even express what your issue is in comprehensible form.


    I gather that you think that it is impossible for someone to be running away if they are run towards someone else.



    The "running away" here is yourself from logic.


    Not sure why you are so eager to try to pick fights over nothing. Are you having a bad day?


    Running away from someone but towards someone else both of whom are in the same location?


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    #592
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    NackJapier wrote: »
    Your all actually crazy lads.

    He was literally on property he shouldn't have being on, wasn't his!

    Fair enough didn't deserve to die but wanna know what's important?

    IF HE NEVER TRESPASSED ON THAT PROPERTY HE'D STILL BE ALIVE TODAY!

    Like let's really make it simple - had he NOT went on property that WAS NOT HIS. He would STILL BE ALIVE.


    You're getting very fcuking close to the "Your Honour, if she wasn't wearing a tight skirt and high-heels then none of this would have happened." argument.


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    #593
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,009 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    ShatterAlan wrote: »
    You're getting very fcuking close to the "Your Honour, if she wasn't wearing a tight skirt and high-heels then none of this would have happened." argument.
    Trespass is a crime, dressing a certain way is not.


    But, you know, don't get facts get in the way of a good screech. #metoo


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    #594
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Trespass is a crime, dressing a certain way is not.


    But, you know, don't get facts get in the way of a good screech. #metoo

    You have no proof he was trespassing.
    Don't let the facts get in the way of a good accusation.


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    #595
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,009 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    joe40 wrote: »
    You have no proof he was trespassing.
    The video shows him trespassing.


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    #596
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Can journalists ever get things wrong?

    I'll happily retract my 12 mile claim if you can tell me where he lived. Does your journalist say where he lived exactly? He is from Brunswick, that is not in dispute is it? Do you think his high school is a bad indicator of the general area where he lived? I have heard the 12 mile distance mentioned in multiple sources. I have done work to verify that myself as you have seen. I believe the 12 mile distance is unsuitable to the "jogging" narrative and that your journalist and the media in general is trying to spin it. Again, I'm happy to be proved wrong.

    Can you give us readers more specific details on where he lived? I believe he lived with his mother (although I cannot be sure). Can you find any articles that mention where his mother lives? That might help.


    The thing is, all you've done is determine that Brunswick, where Arbery was FROM, is 12 miles from the scene of his murder. Is Brunswick a single point on the map or is it a larger area? Arbery was FROM Brunswick......how do you know he actually lived there at the time of his murder?

    Jason Corbett was FROM Limerick. He lived, and was murdered, 3000 miles away in North Carolina.


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    #597
    Quotations
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Quotations


    ELM327 wrote: »
    dressing a certain way is not.

    It can be. So you are wrong.


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    #598
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    ELM327 wrote: »
    The video shows him trespassing.

    It shows an unidentified male enter a premises.


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    #599
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Danzy wrote: »
    I think carrying a gun to a school game is serious, you do not.

    What's to argue about?


    And if some Dylan Klebold wannabe came to that school game with an AR-15 and started spraying lead in all directions and Arbery shot him dead you'd be singing his praises, whether the gun was legally held or not.


    You see how this works? You're all ifs and buts when it suits your callous narrative but only the iff and but that do so.


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    #600
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,492 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ELM327 wrote: »
    The video shows him trespassing.

    Have you read the thread?

    Trespassing is not a crime.

    Criminal trespassing is a misdemeanor. Nobody can demonstrate that he was criminally trespassing.

    The McMichaels didn’t witness this misdemeanor, even if it did occur.


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    #601
    ShatterAlan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    Das Reich wrote: »
    He was arrested before wasn't he? Media did not lied years ago in Baltimore when they omitted that one man killed by police had maybe 10 convictions or more? They show only one side of the story. I not see these people as opressed but as privileged to be born in the biggest economy of the world.


    Why are you bringing China into this?


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