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Ahmaud Arbery

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    #782
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,642 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    On the day in question, what misdemeanour had he committed that the McMichaels had immediate knowledge of, or what felony had occurred that the McMichaels had reasonable suspicion of his involvement in, that would give them legitimate grounds for making a citizens arrest?


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    #783
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,764 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    osarusan wrote: »
    On the day in question, what misdemeanour had me committed that the McMichales had immediate knowledge of, or what felony had he committed that they had reasonable suspicion of, that would give them legitimate grounds for making a citizens arrest?
    His only crime Fatman and Fatbin knew of was he was black. That was enough to go on the hunt. And plenty here seem to agree with it!


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    #784
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    Bigger problem is people viewing things as a big conspiracy or something..

    Then portraying themselves to just wanting facts. That happens when the trial happens, others though can connect the dots..

    The best bet here, seeing as you want only the facts is chime back when the trial is in full swing.. you can correct everyone that was wrong.
    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Not true.

    https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-17/chapter-4/article-4/17-4-60/

    "In Georgia, the law states that a private person may arrest someone if a crime is committed in his presence or “within his immediate knowledge.” But if it is a felony, the citizen can stop someone from escaping if the citizen has “reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.”

    https://www.georgiacriminallawyer.com/theft-by-taking

    "The penalty for theft by taking can either be a misdemeanor or felony in Georgia. When the theft involves property valued at $500 or less, then the crime will be deemed a misdemeanor in Georgia. The consequences of a misdemeanor include a fine of no more than $1,000 and a jail sentence of no more than 12 months."

    Unfortunately for the people supporting Arbery, all of the boxes are ticked in favor of the McMichaels. I hope they get a fair trial.

    what theft? nothing was taken. he walked onto a property, had a look around, and then left.


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    #785
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    osarusan wrote: »
    On the day in question, what misdemeanour had he committed that the McMichaels had immediate knowledge of, or what felony had occurred that the McMichaels had reasonable suspicion of his involvement in, that would give them legitimate grounds for making a citizens arrest?


    https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-16-crimes-and-offenses/ga-code-sect-16-7-21.html


    "(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:
    (1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;"



    "A person who commits the offense of criminal trespass shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."


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    #786
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,764 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-16-crimes-and-offenses/ga-code-sect-16-7-21.html


    "(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:
    (1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;"



    "A person who commits the offense of criminal trespass shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."
    So they SAW him on that day tresspass?


    Your screenshots arent from that day.


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    #787
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    what theft? nothing was taken. he walked onto a property, had a look around, and then left.

    Which is a crime.

    Anyway I never said he took anything. I reproduced that paragraph as it states the consequences of a misdemeanor.


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    #788
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    pjohnson wrote: »
    His only crime Fatman and Fatbin knew of was he was black. That was enough to go on the hunt. And plenty here seem to agree with it!


    Have you anything of substance to discuss about the McMichaels? Calling them childish schoolyard names is not helpful to discussion.


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    #789
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Which is a crime.

    Anyway I never said he took anything. I reproduced that paragraph as it states the consequences of a misdemeanor.

    criminal trespass is a misdemeanor. walking onto a property and looking around is not.
    (a) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she intentionally damages any property of another without consent of that other person and the damage thereto is $500.00 or less or knowingly and maliciously interferes with the possession or use of the property of another person without consent of that person.

    (b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:

    (1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;

    (2) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving, prior to such entry, notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant that such entry is forbidden; or

    (3) Remains upon the land or premises of another person or within the vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant to depart.

    (c) For the purposes of subsection (b) of this Code section, permission to enter or invitation to enter given by a minor who is or is not present on or in the property of the minor's parent or guardian is not sufficient to allow lawful entry of another person upon the land, premises, vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft owned or rightfully occupied by such minor's parent or guardian if such parent or guardian has previously given notice that such entry is forbidden or notice to depart.

    (d) A person who commits the offense of criminal trespass shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

    (e) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she intentionally defaces, mutilates, or defiles any grave marker, monument, or memorial to one or more deceased persons who served in the military service of this state, the United States of America or any of the states thereof, or the Confederate States of America or any of the states thereof, or a monument, plaque, marker, or memorial which is dedicated to, honors, or recounts the military service of any past or present military personnel of this state, the United States of America or any of the states thereof, or the Confederate States of America or any of the states thereof if such grave marker, monument, memorial, plaque, or marker is privately owned or located on land which is privately owned.


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    #790
    McHardcore
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAgD8pvdQ7k

    This video gives a summary of the case. The guys who shot him and the cops working the case are going to get the full book of the law thrown at them.


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    #791
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    pjohnson wrote: »
    His only crime Fatman and Fatbin knew of was he was black. That was enough to go on the hunt. And plenty here seem to agree with it!

    There really is some in incredible amount of racist lies allowed on this website with complete impunity, you'd swear they're trying to encourage the 8chan crowd at times.


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    #792
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Which is a crime.

    Anyway I never said he took anything. I reproduced that paragraph as it states the consequences of a misdemeanor.

    Unarmed men suspected of non-violent crimes do not deserved to be killed in the street.

    Riots happening in Minneapolis at the moment over the latest instance of this. An unarmed black men suspected of passing forged notes in a corner shop killed by a policeman who knelt on his neck until he died as the man and onlookers told the policeman he couldn’t breathe.

    It’s crazy to me that people will defend the behaviour of the killers in either case.


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    #793
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Have you anything of substance to discuss about the McMichaels? Calling them childish schoolyard names is not helpful to discussion.

    It’s weird that you’re more upset about killers being called a childish name than the fact that they killed a guy for no good reason.


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    #794
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Have you anything of substance to discuss about the McMichaels? Calling them childish schoolyard names is not helpful to discussion.

    And wilfull twisting of certain facts is helpful to the discussion?


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    #795
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Unarmed men suspected of non-violent crimes do not deserved to be killed in the street.

    Riots happening in Minneapolis at the moment over the latest instance of this. An unarmed black men suspected of passing forged notes in a corner shop killed by a policeman who knelt on his neck until he died as the man and onlookers told the policeman he couldn’t breathe.

    It’s crazy to me that people will defend the behaviour of the killers in either case.

    there is no evidence that arbery committed a crime.


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    #796
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,642 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    https://codes.findlaw.com/ga/title-16-crimes-and-offenses/ga-code-sect-16-7-21.html


    "(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:
    (1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;"



    "A person who commits the offense of criminal trespass shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."


    My earlier question:


    what misdemeanour had he committed that the McMichaels had immediate knowledge of...?


  • Options
    #797
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    there is no evidence that arbery committed a crime.

    I know, but the killers suspected he did - that’s what I was referencing.


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    #798
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Slightly off topic but police fire tear has has at protestors in Minneapolis, but stood by while armed men took over govt buildings in Michigan.
    Black people know they're not getting justice.
    If the McMichaels get off with no punishment at all it will be a travesty. Maybe not murder but their actions caused the death of a young man.
    They are accountable.


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    #799
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    https://m.startribune.com/first-responders-worked-nearly-an-hour-to-save-floyd-before-he-was-pronounced-dead/570806682/

    Dead by the time EMS had arrived, that piece of sh!t still had that knee on his neck when the paramedic looked to take George's pulse, disgusting.

    i think you're in the wrong thread


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    #800
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i think you're in the wrong thread

    Damn you, haha


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    #801
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    criminal trespass is a misdemeanor. walking onto a property and looking around is not.

    Also in your post:

    "Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving, prior to such entry, notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant that such entry is forbidden; or"

    There was notice from the owner not to enter & Arbery ignored it many times.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8308785/Man-called-police-Ahmaud-Arbery-says-suspicious-saggy-pants.html

    The current owner, Larry English Jr., bought it in June 2016 for $120,000 and has built the majority of the structure which has a sign posted outside, warning: 'Trespassers will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.'


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    #802
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Also in your post:

    "Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving, prior to such entry, notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant that such entry is forbidden; or"

    There was notice from the owner not to enter & Arbery ignored it many times.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8308785/Man-called-police-Ahmaud-Arbery-says-suspicious-saggy-pants.html

    The current owner, Larry English Jr., bought it in June 2016 for $120,000 and has built the majority of the structure which has a sign posted outside, warning: 'Trespassers will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.'

    Yes, a misdemeanor crime?? Which you can't make a citizens arrest for...


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    #803
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Also in your post:

    "Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving, prior to such entry, notice from the owner, rightful occupant, or, upon proper identification, an authorized representative of the owner or rightful occupant that such entry is forbidden; or"

    There was notice from the owner not to enter & Arbery ignored it many times.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8308785/Man-called-police-Ahmaud-Arbery-says-suspicious-saggy-pants.html

    The current owner, Larry English Jr., bought it in June 2016 for $120,000 and has built the majority of the structure which has a sign posted outside, warning: 'Trespassers will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.'

    so you think he committed a misdemeanor. Lets go with that. what knowledge did the mcmichaels have of the signs and the acts committed by arbery bearing in my that they never seen him enter the site. so arbery committed no offence in their presence. what happened that gave them immediate suspicion that an offence was committed?


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    #804
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    osarusan wrote: »
    My earlier question:


    what misdemeanour had he committed that the McMichaels had immediate knowledge of...?


    Criminal Trespass, informed by the neighbor who we see in the video. All residents were sharing information regarding the spate of crime (see neighborhood watch screengrab linked earlier)


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    #805
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Criminal Trespass, informed by the neighbor who we see in the video. All residents were sharing information regarding the spate of crime (see neighborhood watch screengrab linked earlier)

    they went looking for him based on a description. that is not immediate suspicion.


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    #806
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    They had no justifiable reason for taking that man’s life. He had done nothing to deserve that and their suspicions were based primarily on their own prejudices.

    It’s disgusting that you’ve spent days here defending his killers kid chameleon. You’d want to have a serious think about that.

    His mother will never see him again because he stopped for a drink of water at a construction site and two guys made a decision to take the law into their own hands.


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    #807
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so you think he committed a misdemeanor. Lets go with that. what knowledge did the mcmichaels have of the signs and the acts committed by arbery bearing in my that they never seen him enter the site. so arbery committed no offence in their presence. what happened that gave them immediate suspicion that an offence was committed?

    This is just madness. The neighbor saw him entering and sprinting away, its in the videos posted in the OP. He would have reported this to McMichaels or they saw it themselves. One of those two things happened we can assume because the did know something was going on.

    What is the definition of "immediate knowledge" under Georgia law? I have tried and cannot find it so I am using my own common sense. If my neighbor told me some scrote entered my house and then ran away, I would consider that immediate knowledge but I'm open to correction.


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    #808
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,764 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Have you anything of substance to discuss about the McMichaels? Calling them childish schoolyard names is not helpful to discussion.

    You have had an avoidance to any kind of reality or fact since this case started.


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    #809
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,003 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    KiKi III wrote: »
    They had no justifiable reason for taking that man’s life. He had done nothing to deserve that and their suspicions were based primarily on their own prejudices.

    It’s disgusting that you’ve spent days here defending his killers kid chameleon. You’d want to have a serious think about that.

    His mother will never see him again because he stopped for a drink of water at a construction site and two guys made a decision to take the law into their own hands.
    What you see as a drink of water, the law will see as criminal trespass (passing a no entry sign).
    This, in GA, is a defined ground for citizens arrest.


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    #810
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,003 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    This is just madness. The neighbor saw him entering and sprinting away, its in the videos posted in the OP. He would have reported this to McMichaels or they saw it themselves. One of those two things happened we can assume because the did know something was going on.

    What is the definition of "immediate knowledge" under Georgia law? I have tried and cannot find it so I am using my own common sense. If my neighbor told me some scrote entered my house and then ran away, I would consider that immediate knowledge but I'm open to correction.
    You are correct.
    It is immediate knowledge. Immediate knowledge is knowing something is happening, when it is happening. As opposed to "after the fact knowledge"


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    #811
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    This is just madness. The neighbor saw him entering and sprinting away, its in the videos posted in the OP. He would have reported this to McMichaels or they saw it themselves. One of those two things happened we can assume because the did know something was going on.

    What is the definition of "immediate knowledge" under Georgia law? I have tried and cannot find it so I am using my own common sense. If my neighbor told me some scrote entered my house and then ran away, I would consider that immediate knowledge but I'm open to correction.

    they didnt see it themselves so you can drop that. the neighbour gave a description. the mcmichaels started driving around looking for someone that matched that description. that is not immediate knowledge. if the neighbour had pointed at somebody running away and said "thats the guy, him there" that might qualify as immediate knowledge. there has to be a direct link between the offence and mcmicahels. acting on a description breaks that link. but dont take my word for it. a lawyer licenced in the state of Georgia thinks the same as i do

    https://fox28media.com/news/local/criminal-defense-attorney-breaks-down-the-citizens-arrest-law-after-arbery-murder


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