Ahmaud Arbery

ohnonotgmail

Gatling wrote: »

It's another not so veiled let's blame the victim post

ssssh, you're ruining what i was trying to do.

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

With all due respect, I think that may be a bit conspiratorial.


Would I be right in saying that you feel the gun being stolen might have been a cover story told by Travis McMichael? To give him an excuse to go after Arbery? Please correct me if I am wrong.


I personally think it is safe to assume that a gun was stolen. As far as I remember it was reported missing on the 11th of February. This and in conjunction with all of the reported sightings of trespassing and shady activity in the area (please see the linked report on the neighborhood watch group) certainly seems to back that up.


Again, I'm just trying to apply my own logic and probability to the situation, and I am discussing it with you with all respect and courtesy.

This is incorrect. It was January 1.

Every post of yours in this thread you’re spouting off misinformation. Clearly, you have decided upon your own truth.

ohnonotgmail

Kidchameleon wrote: »

With all due respect, I think that may be a bit conspiratorial.


Would I be right in saying that you feel the gun being stolen might have been a cover story told by Travis McMichael? To give him an excuse to go after Arbery? Please correct me if I am wrong.


I personally think it is safe to assume that a gun was stolen. As far as I remember it was reported missing on the 11th of February. This and in conjunction with all of the reported sightings of trespassing and shady activity in the area (please see the linked report on the neighborhood watch group) certainly seems to back that up.


Again, I'm just trying to apply my own logic and probability to the situation, and I am discussing it with you with all respect and courtesy.

that seems to be going swimmingly for you

Kidchameleon

Overheal wrote: »

This is incorrect. It was January 1.

Every post of yours in this thread you’re spouting off misinformation. Clearly, you have decided upon your own truth.

In fairness overheal & with all due respect, I said "as far as I remember" which implies I acknowledge my date might be wrong. The correct date is in the OP which I wrote. I would also like to remind you that I have provided links for all of my claims.

On the point of it being January 1st I dont think it really makes any difference either way. A gun was reported stolen and the police have not refuted this to my knowledge.

Kidchameleon

Gatling wrote: »

No .

Remember people claimed that he

Was armed with a hammer -lie

We was wearing heavy work boots - lie

He attacked 3 armed men first -lie

He was trying to emulate the columbine massacre -lie


So yeah it's pretty likely there was no gun stolen from McDaniels

Just on this. Im trying to understand your point...

McMichaels reporting a gun missing is related to strangers on the internet getting details wrong or lying altogether about a situation not related to the gun theft. Why do you feel these these things related? My confusion stems from the fact that McMichaels most likely doesnt know the people making the claims & the two scenarios are months apart with one happening months before Arbury's death and the other at least 70 days after.

Im genuinely confused and hoping for clarification in order to have an informed opinion on all angles.

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Just on this. Im trying to understand your point...

McMichaels reporting a gun missing is related to strangers on the internet getting details wrong or lying altogether about a situation not related to the gun theft. Why do you feel these these things related? My confusion stems from the fact that McMichaels most likely doesnt know the people making the claims & the two scenarios are months apart with one happening months before Arbury's death and the other at least 70 days after.

Im genuinely confused and hoping for clarification in order to have an informed opinion on all angles.

To simplify this:

None of the alleged crimes prior to February 23 bear any relevance to the McMichaels initiating a citizens arrest on February 23. The only thing the McMichaels saw on February 23 was Arbery running in front of their house. All their friend “Roddy” saw was a black man running down the street with the McMichaels chasing him.

The citizens arrest statute is clear you need immediate knowledge. They performed a citizens arrest for Running While Black.

Kidchameleon

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how is this relevant to 2 armed white men killing an unarmed black man in an illegitimate citizens arrest? do you think it excuses their behaviour in some way?

I dont think it excuses anything. I just find it interesting that the media would seemingly have us think no crime was happening in the area when in fact it seems there was quite a spate of crime.

Can I ask why you are bringing race into things? I have not seen any indication that Arbery was targeted because he was black. Would you have any information to link that would help me improve my understanding of the siuation? If you could share it that would be fantastic. This came up in the thread before and I asked for clarification & as far as I know, none was provided. Now, its possible I missed it and if so I apologise. I find it strange that the two McMichaels have gone their whole lives aparently being so racist yet have never killed or attacked anyone for being black up to this point (to my knowledge)

Again, could you provide evidence that Arbery was targeted because he was black.

Regarding weather the arrest was legit or not, I think that will be best left to the courts to decide. I look forward to getting clarification on that in the future. I do understand your concerns on it though.

Kidchameleon

Overheal wrote: »

The citizens arrest statute is clear you need immediate knowledge. They performed a citizens arrest for Running While Black.

Do you feel that, lets say Arbery was white, but every other aspect of the case was the same, that he would still be alive?

Do you think that, lets say a white man tried to take the shotgun from Travis that it would not have discharged?

Do you think that Greg McMichael (a ~30 year vet of law enforcement) would not have been concerned about the crime in his area if the perpetrators were white?

What is your reason for concluding the incident was racially motivated?

I am not saying I think either way. Its just that all the evidence so far points to there simply being a concern over crime. I'd love to see what evidence you have that makes you so sure this was racially motivated so that I may have a more informed opinion. Thanks Overheal.

Gatling

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Can I ask why you are bringing race into things? I have not seen any indication that Arbery was targeted because he was black.
I find it strange that the two McMichaels have gone their whole lives aparently being so racist yet have never killed or attacked anyone for being black up to this point (to my knowledge)

Again, could you provide evidence that Arbery was targeted because he was black.

Blackman gets chased and executed by white men in a white neighborhood using the excuse they were investigating crimes (despite being sacked from the police)
Other people who walked through the unsecured property /construction site who were white were not chased by several armed men in several vehicles before being executed.

Only the black man was chased and executed

How well do you know the McMichaels exactly

KiKi III

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Do you feel that, lets say Arbery was white, but every other aspect of the case was the same, that he would still be alive?

Do you think that, lets say a white man tried to take the shotgun from Travis that it would not have discharged?

Do you think that Greg McMichael (a ~30 year vet of law enforcement) would not have been concerned about the crime in his area if the perpetrators were white?

What is your reason for concluding the incident was racially motivated?

I am not saying I think either way. Its just that all the evidence so far points to there simply being a concern over crime. I'd love to see what evidence you have that makes you so sure this was racially motivated so that I may have a more informed opinion. Thanks Overheal.

Yes, I think he’d still be alive.

I think they wouldn’t have chased him in the first place so the altercation wouldn’t have happened.

I think those two men are racists and while they might not have set out to kill him because he’s black, they made a set of assumptions that led to him being killed because he is black.

I know that other people who aren’t black went to the same construction site that very day and were not chased down with guns over it.

I would guess that dozens of white joggers went down the street that day unharmed.

Kidchameleon

Interesting article regarding Greg McMichaels status as a law enforcement officer:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2020/05/12/retired-da-investigator-accused-in-arberys-murder-worked-for-years-without-certification/

Im not sure why it is reported that Greg was "sacked". He was clearly legally employed there until he retired. His lapse in training was mainly due to clerical error which his superiors took responsibility for.

He RETIRED in June 2019

"McMichael told investigators at the time the lapse in training was due to two heart attacks, his wife's cancer and a subsequent bankruptcy over medical bills."

" McMichael was ultimately granted a waiver from Georgia POST and allowed to continue on as an investigator with her office after Jackie Johnson personally addressed the council on his behalf."

" “This situation has been a great embarrassment to me and to investigator McMichael. It has negatively impacted my office, and I have taken measures to ensure that this doesn’t happen again. Please accept my sincere apology,” wrote Johnson in 2014."

" McMichael was allowed to stay with the District Attorney’s Office as a staff liaison and report to work at the Camden County District attorney’s Office until his retirement in June 2019. "

Gatling

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Interesting article regarding Greg McMichaels status

Im not sure why it is reported that Greg was "sacked".

He RETIRED in June 2019

From a civilian post he wasn't a cop he lost his badge ,gun and vehicle and wasn't allowed to take part in any law enforcement actions .

Guy:Incognito

Kidchameleon wrote: »

He RETIRED in June 2019
"

So he wasnt working in any kind of law enforcement job, even as a civilian , when all this took place?

MeMen2_MoRi_

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Interesting article regarding Greg McMichaels status as a law enforcement officer:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2020/05/12/retired-da-investigator-accused-in-arberys-murder-worked-for-years-without-certification/

Im not sure why it is reported that Greg was "sacked". He was clearly legally employed there until he retired. His lapse in training was mainly due to clerical error which his superiors took responsibility for.

He RETIRED in June 2019

"McMichael told investigators at the time the lapse in training was due to two heart attacks, his wife's cancer and a subsequent bankruptcy over medical bills."

" McMichael was ultimately granted a waiver from Georgia POST and allowed to continue on as an investigator with her office after Jackie Johnson personally addressed the council on his behalf."

" “This situation has been a great embarrassment to me and to investigator McMichael. It has negatively impacted my office, and I have taken measures to ensure that this doesn’t happen again. Please accept my sincere apology,” wrote Johnson in 2014."

" McMichael was allowed to stay with the District Attorney’s Office as a staff liaison and report to work at the Camden County District attorney’s Office until his retirement in June 2019. "

I don't understand this pulling up of history.. just like I don't like Ahmaud's history from his teen years being pulled up..

What is the point?

This A-hole grabbed a gun called for his son who grabbed a shot gun they were then joined in a chase by friend "Roddy" and went after Ahmaud, chased him to the point where an unarmed guy felt the need to challenge the gun totting vigilantes risking his life, to which he pays the ultimate price, yet you want these fcuks to be shown some mercy or something.. I don't get it!

Kidchameleon

KiKi III wrote: »

Yes I think he’d still be alive.

I think they wouldn’t have chased him in the first place so the altercation wouldn’t have happened.

I think those two men are racists and while they might not have set out to kill him because he’s black, they made a set of assumptions that led to him being killed because he is black.

I think, I think, I think. But do you know? Perhaps there is a bit of prejudice/bias on your side aswell? And I dont mean to attack you its just a bit of food for thought.

KiKi III wrote: »

I know that other people who aren’t black went to the same construction site that very day and were not chased down with guns over it.

I know of two - a pair of children and another middle aged couple. I doubt the children would have been shot under any circumstances.

The couple could have just been from the area checking on the property. Maybe the went for a drink of water. Maybe they would have aroused suspicion but were simply not spotted. Who knows.

KiKi III wrote: »

I would guess that dozens of white joggers went down the street that day unharmed
.

Are you saying that you think every black person who went to that street would have gotten shot? Look at the Facebook posts I linked, lots of black people were seen in the area and they were not shot. Do you know the race of every resident in the area? Perhaps some of them are black? Its almost a certainty.

Gatling

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I know of two - a pair of children and another middle aged couple. I doubt the children would have been shot under any circumstances.

The couple could have just been from the area checking on the property. Maybe the went for a drink of water. Maybe they would have aroused suspicion but were simply not spotted. Who knows.



Are you saying that you think every black person who went to that street would have gotten shot? Look at the Facebook posts I linked, lots of black people were seen in the area

So white people apparently broke the law multiple times and not one was chased by several armed men.

Now your saying the white couple could have been getting a drink of water - just a harmless drink of water

But the black man was up to no good,

So could the black man have been chased and murdered for drinking water at a white persons unsecured property ,

Kidchameleon

Gatling wrote: »

From a civilian post he wasn't a cop he lost his badge ,gun and vehicle and wasn't allowed to take part in any law enforcement actions .

I was just pointing out that he was not sacked. I actually pointed this out a few days ago.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So he wasnt working in any kind of law enforcement job, even as a civilian , when all this took place?

Very true but remeber, in Georgia a citizen can make an arrest. So the fact that he was no longer in law enforcement has no bearing.

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

I don't understand this pulling up of history.. just like I don't like Ahmaud's history from his teen years being pulled up..

What is the point?

This A-hole grabbed a gun called for his son who grabbed a shot gun they were then joined in a chase by friend "Roddy" and went after Ahmaud, chased him to the point where an unarmed guy felt the need to challenge the gun totting vigilantes risking his life, to which he pays the ultimate price, yet you want these fcuks to be shown some mercy or something.. I don't get it!

I just wanted to clarify that the man was not sacked & I want them to receive a fair trial, not to be sentenced based on emotion. I am not asking that they be shown "mercy", just the truth

Gatling

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I was just pointing out that he was not sacked.

I just wanted to clarify that the man was not sacked &

I am not asking that they be shown "mercy

just the truth

He was removed as a cop ,his badge removed ,his service pistol and other firearms removed ,his police vehicle was removed .his police Radio removed.


He was sacked

joe40

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I was just pointing out that he was not sacked. I actually pointed this out a few days ago.



Very true but remeber, in Georgia a citizen can make an arrest. So the fact that he was no longer in law enforcement has no bearing.



I just wanted to clarify that the man was not sacked & I want them to receive a fair trial, not to be sentenced based on emotion. I am not asking that they be shown "mercy", just the truth

There is no reason to think thay won't get a fair trial.
You on the other hand are trying to bring irrelevant information into the case, like Ahmaud past. That is immaterial to the actual shooting.
You are precisely taking emotion into the scenario, to discredit and diminish the victim.
His background is immaterial to him been shot. Why is that difficult to understand.

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Do you feel that, lets say Arbery was white, but every other aspect of the case was the same, that he would still be alive?

I have no doubt.

Do you think that, lets say a white man tried to take the shotgun from Travis that it would not have discharged?

I don’t think it would have ever reached that point.

Do you think that Greg McMichael (a ~30 year vet of law enforcement) would not have been concerned about the crime in his area if the perpetrators were white?

This is a red herring. It doesn’t matter to the events on February 23.

Recall though that more people than Arbery also trespassed on the construction site. Where was his concern for them?

What is your reason for concluding the incident was racially motivated?

The evidence. The people. The neighborhood. The state of the world. My common senses. Lots of white trespassers were not accosted.

Now, this is not synonymous with arguing that there is enough to prosecute it as a premeditated hate crime. I’m simply not blind to the factors race introduced to this incident.

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Interesting article regarding Greg McMichaels status as a law enforcement officer:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2020/05/12/retired-da-investigator-accused-in-arberys-murder-worked-for-years-without-certification/

Im not sure why it is reported that Greg was "sacked". He was clearly legally employed there until he retired. His lapse in training was mainly due to clerical error which his superiors took responsibility for.

He RETIRED in June 2019

"McMichael told investigators at the time the lapse in training was due to two heart attacks, his wife's cancer and a subsequent bankruptcy over medical bills."

" McMichael was ultimately granted a waiver from Georgia POST and allowed to continue on as an investigator with her office after Jackie Johnson personally addressed the council on his behalf."

" “This situation has been a great embarrassment to me and to investigator McMichael. It has negatively impacted my office, and I have taken measures to ensure that this doesn’t happen again. Please accept my sincere apology,” wrote Johnson in 2014."

" McMichael was allowed to stay with the District Attorney’s Office as a staff liaison and report to work at the Camden County District attorney’s Office until his retirement in June 2019. "

No his lapse of training persisted for years.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I just wanted to clarify that the man was not sacked & I want them to receive a fair trial, not to be sentenced based on emotion. I am not asking that they be shown "mercy", just the truth

Do you not think it's a bit of mute point to be discussing?

Yeah fair dues on the mercy thing i think that was another poster on thread, my bad.

I get wanting the facts of it, we don't have them all yet, just on the face of things their actions seem extreme. If you scan back through my posts, if these guys are thinking he's armed, more reason to keep yourself away from danger, look to follow him while being on the phone to the cops.. from the father's statement he said he believed Ahmaud was armed from previously seeing him in the area.

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I think, I think, I think. But do you know? Perhaps there is a bit of prejudice/bias on your side aswell? And I dont mean to attack you its just a bit of food for thought.



I know of two - a pair of children and another middle aged couple. I doubt the children would have been shot under any circumstances.

The couple could have just been from the area checking on the property. Maybe the went for a drink of water. Maybe they would have aroused suspicion but were simply not spotted. Who knows.



Are you saying that you think every black person who went to that street would have gotten shot? Look at the Facebook posts I linked, lots of black people were seen in the area and they were not shot. Do you know the race of every resident in the area? Perhaps some of them are black? Its almost a certainty.

Why does this not apply to Arbery who lives 2 miles away?

Kidchameleon

Gatling wrote: »

So white people apparently broke the law multiple times and not one was chased by several armed men.

Now your saying the white couple could have been getting a drink of water - just a harmless drink of water

But the black man was up to no good,

So could the black man have been chased and murdered for drinking water at a white persons unsecured property ,

The middled aged couple went in once & the kids went in once. Im not sure how your equating that to "white people went in multiple times". Could you explain how you came to that conclusion?

Have you any evidence that the middle aged couple visited the property more than once? Same query for the children.

Arbery himself did go in multiple times. He was spotted by various people and caught on camera. He also had a criminal record for burglary & firearms, this was known to McMichaels. Thirdly, he sprinted when spoted in the property by the neighbor (Arbery had previously walked to property and stood in the garden for a time) All of this points to a pattern of behaviour that cannot be attributed to the children and middle aged couple. Note that I have not mentioned anybodys race.

Kidchameleon

Overheal wrote: »

Why does this not apply to Arbery who lives 2 miles away?

Hi Overheal. I think it would be helpful to the discussion if you could share any information you have about where Arbery lived. I think this information would really help establish if he was genuinely jogging. I apologise if you have shared this info already but if you did I missed it. All the evidence I have gathered (and linked to) suggests he lives 12 miles away. If you could add more accurate information that would be great

Gatling

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Have you any evidence that the middle aged couple visited the property more than once? Same query for the children.

Note that I have not mentioned anybodys race.

It was reported children were regularly seen on the unsecured property along with other adults .

Did the white sacked cop chase and shoot them?

was he laying in wait for a blackman he could hunt him down execute him ?

jam_mac_jam

The white people went for a glass of water. Beautiful

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Hi Overheal. I think it would be helpful to the discussion if you could share any information you have about where Arbery lived. I think this information would really help establish if he was genuinely jogging. I apologise if you have shared this info already but if you did I missed it. All the evidence I have gathered (and linked to) suggests he lives 12 miles away. If you could add more accurate information that would be great

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-05-26/ahmaud-arbery-life-at-crossroads-in-final-days

Kidchameleon

Gatling wrote: »

It was reported children were regularly seen on the unsecured property along with other adults .

Did the white sacked cop chase and shoot them?

was he laying in wait for a blackman he could hunt him down execute him ?

I have just given evidence that proves he was not sacked. Why do you keep insisting he was?

Is there any evidence of any repeat individual tresspasser other than Arbury? Multiple different "white" people tresspassing does not constitute a repeat offender.

Gatling

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have just given evidence that proves he was not sacked.

No you said he retired ,

Retired from a civilian job as a civilian .

He was sacked as a cop.



Can you please stop running around in circles and rehashing nonsense that clearly shows your on a wind up