Ahmaud Arbery

martingriff

It is no secret that Arbery is no saint. He has a checkered past. We should not be afraid to know this. However none of his past has any bearing on what occurred on that day except to try and cloud what happened on that day. It has been repeated here but some do not want to hear it but there was no cause or right for a citizens arrest as per georgia law as per president by the supreme court.

They did not see him do anything illegal at that time, they wanted to act as heroes but it went badly wrong. Did they mean to kill him no but they did

I can tell you if I was jogging along somewhere and 2 people came at me in a truck hollering for me to stop with guns in there hands (unless it's the police) i would run for cover to protect myself if possible or if not stand my ground which is what Aubrey appears to have done here as per that video that they themselves released

martingriff

brendanwalsh wrote: »

He trespassed on private property.
I can’t confirm what he stole, I assume he tossed it when he was jogging/running after having been spotted red handed.

no innocent explanation has been given for what he was doing in the garage , instead they have tried to gloss over that fact

Well there is a video of them chasing him where nothing seems to have been thrown away. Would you not think this be a vital info in there case and it would be mentioned.

Did they see him on that day at that moment doing something illegal. Maybe it was the quickest way to jog through the neighbourhood, maybe it could have been up to no good. But that is not the point. T

he point is according to a judgement by the supreme court there was no right for them to go and try and perform a citizens arrest. The thing a the police and maybe the courts need to do is to see if there is charges to answer

Overheal

If you want an innocent explanation Arbery could have just been riffing.

Not unusual in US culture for example that rap is a big part of black culture. It’s not unusual to see a black American walking down the street for example, headphones on, arms flailing around as they spit lyrics. Of course, white Americans do this as well, and I’ve noticed it conspicuously from a few people in my community before. The site gave him a secluded place to do that without bothering anyone.

The other explanation people want to believe is that Arbery had to case the joint multiple times to commit to stealing something? Eh.

Gatling

ELM327 wrote: »

"I didn't even steal anything: Even though you may not have stolen

That's not what you were asked

Muahahaha

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Hi Overheal. I think it would be helpful to the discussion if you could share any information you have about where Arbery lived. I think this information would really help establish if he was genuinely jogging. I apologise if you have shared this info already but if you did I missed it. All the evidence I have gathered (and linked to) suggests he lives 12 miles away. If you could add more accurate information that would be great

So where did the 12 miles claim come from that you introduced to this thread. You said you have read this 12 mile claim on "multiple sources" and I asked you to provide links to all these sources but you did not. I've goodled it and I cant find a source for it so as you say yourself it would be helpful to the discussion for you to provide the multiple sources that you got this information on.

What we do know is that the New York Times, USA Today and the LA Times have all reported that he lived 2 miles from the scene of where he died in Satilla Shores. What we also know is that Washington Post reported that alt right and neo nazi groups in the US have been spreading disinformation about Arbery using memes and fake news. So given this back drop I think it would be helpful to the discussion for you to provide these "multiple sources" you say you read on the 12 mile claim so posters here can judge for themselves.

On top of that last night you said that Arberys family had identified him as being in the CCTV in the construction site. Whats your source for this?

joe40

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Not just that video. Based on everything we know about him:


* Weapons charge
* Resisting arrest
* Burglary charge
* Driving without a license & insurance
* Drug possession
* History of failure to cooperate with police
* Multiple trespass violations at the Larry English house



I'm not trying to blame him but I am trying to take the blame away from the McMichaels. I think it was a citizens arrest gone wrong.

For which the McMichaels are responsible. Any since a life was lost they have to take responsibility for that.
I don't see how any normal society would allow armed vigilantes to detain people and when the inevitable fatality occurs start blaming the victim.
If I cause someones death it is immaterial what type of person that was. I have to answer for my actions.

ELM327

joe40 wrote: »

For which the McMichaels are responsible. Any since a life was lost they have to take responsibility for that.
I don't see how any normal society would allow armed vigilantes to detain people and when the inevitable fatality occurs start blaming the victim.
If I cause someones death it is immaterial what type of person that was. I have to answer for my actions.

And the mcmichaels are going to answer, in court.
It was the right thing to do, to charge them. And I think they are not guilty.

Gatling

Muahahaha wrote: »

So where did the 12 miles claim come from that you introduced to this thread. You said you have read this 12 mile claim on "multiple sources" and I asked you to provide links to all these sources but you did not. I've goodled it and I cant find a source for it so as you say yourself

Don't forget about the Hammer , heavy work boots,and the evidence being removed from the internet that he has access to

Gatling

ELM327 wrote: »

And I think they are not guilty.

Wonder why

joe40

ELM327 wrote: »

And the mcmichaels are going to answer, in court.
It was the right thing to do, to charge them. And I think they are not guilty.

So why do you and the other guy insist in digging up dirt on the victim.
This has no bearing on the case. He was either killed illegally or not. The court will decide and that is proper.
But like you I can have an opinion and I think they are guilty of causing his death. Maybe something less than pre medicated murder, I can accept that, but definitely should go to jail.

ELM327

joe40 wrote: »

So why do you and the other guy insist in digging up dirt on the victim.
This has no bearing on the case. He was either killed illegally or not. The court will decide and that is proper.
But like you I can have an opinion and I think they are guilty of causing his death. Maybe something less than pre medicated murder, I can accept that, but definitely should go to jail.

Finally, some sense.


My opinion: I don't think they will go to jail at all.

Overheal

ELM327 wrote: »

Finally, some sense.


My opinion: I don't think they will go to jail at all.

They’re already IN jail.

ELM327

Overheal wrote: »

They’re already IN jail.

As a suspect, yes. They are also not guilty right now.

Kidchameleon

Muahahaha wrote: »

So where did the 12 miles claim come from that you introduced to this thread. You said you have read this 12 mile claim on "multiple sources" and I asked you to provide links to all these sources but you did not. I've goodled it and I cant find a source for it so as you say yourself it would be helpful to the discussion for you to provide the multiple sources that you got this information on.

What we do know is that the New York Times, USA Today and the LA Times have all reported that he lived 2 miles from the scene of where he died in Satilla Shores. What we also know is that Washington Post reported that alt right and neo nazi groups in the US have been spreading disinformation about Arbery using memes and fake news. So given this back drop I think it would be helpful to the discussion for you to provide these "multiple sources" you say you read on the 12 mile claim so posters here can judge for themselves.

On top of that last night you said that Arberys family had identified him as being in the CCTV in the construction site. Whats your source for this?

I have provided a PDF that clearly shows his address. I then retracted my claim in thread. He lived approx 1.8 miles from Satilla Shores. I never claimed my 12 mile figure was gospel, just that it was the most informed one I could find at the time. All of this info was openly discussed in thread.

Kidchameleon

Overheal wrote: »

If you want an innocent explanation Arbery could have just been riffing.

Not unusual in US culture for example that rap is a big part of black culture. It’s not unusual to see a black American walking down the street for example, headphones on, arms flailing around as they spit lyrics. Of course, white Americans do this as well, and I’ve noticed it conspicuously from a few people in my community before. The site gave him a secluded place to do that without bothering anyone.

The other explanation people want to believe is that Arbery had to case the joint multiple times to commit to stealing something? Eh.

Just on this. In any of the videos I have seen of Arbury in the house, he did not have headphones on. He did not have headphones on as he walked up to the house. On the day in question, his actions did not seem to be that of a person "riffing". From your knowledge, how long would a "riffing" session last? He was in the house on the day he died for ~4 minutes. Would that be long enough for him to "riff".

Here is video of him inside the house just before he died. Note the lack of headphones/earphones. Unfortunately, there only seems to be this short clip of him inside the house on that particular day. Apparently his entire visit is on camera but is currently unavailable. Does he appear to be "riffing" in this clip in your opinion?

The clip in question is the first 7 seconds of this video:

Kidchameleon

ELM327 wrote: »

This is super interesting , thanks, really looks like the suspected criminal, Arbery, was confronted legally by the mcmichaels.

Just to be 100% clear, there is precedent there but it may not equate to this case as we do not know all of the various minutia of the case. But it certainly points to being a legit citizens arrest attempt.

joe40

ELM327 wrote: »

Finally, some sense.


My opinion: I don't think they will go to jail at all.

Everyone knows the court will decide, that's not a revelation.
People can also form their own opinions, based on available evidence.
In my opinion there is very little doubt, the killing was definitely illegal.

Muahahaha

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I have provided a PDF that clearly shows his address. I then retracted my claim in thread. He lived approx 1.8 miles from Satilla Shores. I never claimed my 12 mile figure was gospel, just that it was the most informed one I could find at the time. All of this info was openly discussed in thread.

Can you link the PDF, where did this information come from? And where is your "multiple sources", can you link these too thanks. Ive asked you multiple times for these "multiple sources" yet you still havent provided them so heres your opportunity to show us all on the thread where you got your information from.

And maybe for the benefit of the thread you might link to any claim you are making in the future because you claimed the 12 mile thing and never provided a source in that post, it was the one where you claimed he must be running a marathon if he was that far away from his house, I can dig it out if you want.

Finally last night you put up a picture of what you allege is Arbury in the CCTV at night time on a different occasion from the day his death happened. You claimed that his family identified this as him. Where is your source for this?

Podge_irl

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Just to be 100% clear, there is precedent there but it may not equate to this case as we do not know all of the various minutia of the case. But it certainly points to being a legit citizens arrest attempt.

Just to clarify your logic:

Precedent that he may well in fact have committed a crime - important point suggesting everything is fine

Precedent that they have no authority whatsoever to conduct a citizen's arrest - not relevant to this specific case



It does not matter if he committed a misdemeanour if they did not witness it or be present during it. Whether he committed an offence or not is not relevant, because as per Georgia supreme court judgement they had no immediate knowledge of it.

Tasfasdf

man the story keeps changing for the SJW. I though he stopped for some water :rolleyes:

ohnonotgmail

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Just to be 100% clear, there is precedent there but it may not equate to this case as we do not know all of the various minutia of the case. But it certainly points to being a legit citizens arrest attempt.

the precedent defines what is meant by "immediate knowledge". "immediate knowledge" is an essential element of a legitimate citizens arrest. "Immediate knowledge" means that the person making the citizens arrest MUST have seen the offence being committed. The McMichaels did not see Arbery commit an offence so they lack the essential element of a legitimate citizens arrest. you can ignore this all you want but you are showing yourself as extremely dishonest when you do.

Kidchameleon

brendanwalsh wrote: »

He trespassed on private property.
I can’t confirm what he stole, I assume he tossed it when he was jogging/running after having been spotted red handed. no innocent explanation has been given for what he was doing in the garage , instead they have tried to gloss over that fact

martingriff wrote: »

Well there is a video of them chasing him where nothing seems to have been thrown away. Would you not think this be a vital info in there case and it would be mentioned.

There seems to be no concrete evidence at the moment that he stole anything (however I still believe he broke the law by trespassing). He could have been there to "scope" the house ie. to see if there was anything worth stealing and then return later (this is just speculation). He could also have been there to drink water (still a trespass though as far as my understanding of it is).

Interestingly, if you watch the video of the incident closely, you can clearly see two objects on the road. One of them resembles a hammer. Some people (not on this thread) have speculated that these were discarded by Arbery whilst he ran up and down the road. This route of running up and down the road whilst being chased by the McMichaels would correlate with the NYT reconstruction linked earlier by another poster. Again, all just speculation, these objects could be just debris/dirt etc.

In these three images (taken from the video in the OP & timestamped for your convenience), we see firstly:

* A wide shot of the two objects (object A and object :



We now see two closer images of object B:





I must say, it looks distinctly like a hammer.

Again, just to reiterate, this is all speculation. I do not know what these objects are or where they came from. Perhaps they were thrown by the McMichaels. Perhaps they are from an unrelated incident. Perhaps they are optical illusions caused by poor recording equipment etc. who knows.

Guy:Incognito

Strange that he would throw away a hammer when going to attack people who have guns. Or have we moved off the "he attacked them" narrative?



Does the video actually show him dropping the things or are the things just on the road?

Guy:Incognito

Tasfasdf wrote: »

man the story keeps changing for the SJW. I though he stopped for some water :rolleyes:

No you didnt.

The excuse offered as to what the white couple caught on video were doing in there was "possibly getting a drink of water" (paraphrase while search isnt working) by a poster saying that Arbery was stealing and they were just getting water.

Kidchameleon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Strange that he would throw away a hammer when going to attack people who have guns. Or have we moved off the "he attacked them" narrative?

Does the video actually show him dropping the things or are the things just on the road?

I addressed this at the start of the post your referring to. Just to be 100% clear, it is not known where or whom the objects came from at this time or what the objects are or when they got there, it is speculation.

Kidchameleon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No you didnt.

The excuse offered as to what the white couple caught on video were doing in there was "possibly getting a drink of water" (paraphrase while search isnt working) by a poster saying that Arbery was stealing and they were just getting water.

Just to be clear, and as I have stated plenty of times, its possible Arbery was getting water. Its just really really looks like he wasn't.

Overheal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Just on this. In any of the videos I have seen of Arbury in the house, he did not have headphones on. He did not have headphones on as he walked up to the house. On the day in question, his actions did not seem to be that of a person "riffing". From your knowledge, how long would a "riffing" session last? He was in the house on the day he died for ~4 minutes. Would that be long enough for him to "riff".

Here is video of him inside the house just before he died. Note the lack of headphones/earphones. Unfortunately, there only seems to be this short clip of him inside the house on that particular day. Apparently his entire visit is on camera but is currently unavailable. Does he appear to be "riffing" in this clip in your opinion?

The clip in question is the first 7 seconds of this video:

Speaker on the phone will do.

Overheal

Police reports and attorneys for both parties, the DA, etc. have failed to make any mention of dropped objects, tools, or improvised weapons.

Guy:Incognito

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I addressed this at the start of the post your referring to. Just to be 100% clear, it is not known where or whom the objects came from at this time or what the objects are or when they got there, it is speculation.

Its amazing how much speculation can make it in to posts by posters that are "just looking for facts"

Guy:Incognito

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Just to be clear, and as I have stated plenty of times, its possible Arbery was getting water. Its just really really looks like he wasn't.

Yeah, it actually looks like he did nothing at all. Like the video shows.