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Ahmaud Arbery

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    #152
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    It will be interesting to see the result of this, I suspect, either way it will not be "laughed out of court".
    Much like the John Frog Ward case here, it is going to be a test of existing legal position.

    I don't think it was a hate crime, I do genuinely believe the McMichaels, but it's irrelevant really what you or I believe. What matters is GA law and the outcome of the case. I concur that a trial needed to take place, along with the innocent until proven guilty tenet.


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    #153
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Then the question is was there legal basis.
    If they were trying to make a citizens arrest and were attacked by Arbery then I would suspect they were covered under "stand your ground"

    If it were legal so what - having the right to do it does not mean doing it was right. He was a human being and it was his life. He had a right to his life that they snuffed out because they felt like it. He was unarmed and not a threat. There is or is supposed to be a justice system. He was someone's son and it matters.


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    #154
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    If it were legal so what - having the right to do it does not mean doing it was right. He was a human being and it was his life. He had a right to his life that they snuffed out because they felt like it. He was unarmed and not a threat. There is or is supposed to be a justice system. He was someone's son and it matters.
    Yes, it is unfortunate what happens, but, people die all the time at the hands of others and it doesnt mean it's murder. It can be accidental, manslaughter, self defense, etc.


    That's what the trial will test. And as a reminder, everyone is innocent until and unless proven otherwise in a court of law.


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    #155
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Yes, it is unfortunate what happens, but, people die all the time at the hands of others and it doesnt mean it's murder. It can be accidental, manslaughter, self defense, etc.


    That's what the trial will test. And as a reminder, everyone is innocent until and unless proven otherwise in a court of law.

    innocent in the eyes of the law. they are guilty AF


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    #156
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    joe40 wrote: »
    They shot an unarmed man, I certainly wouldn't want them as neighbours.
    I would.
    Sounds like a good tight knit community watch, with an ex police man in the vicinity. Perfect place to live.


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    #157
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    nobody has doubted that they were carrying legally. the issue is the shooting of an unarmed black man.

    The question is whether it was reasonable force used.

    These things are never clear cut or, pun intended, a black and white issue.

    What we can all agree on is th aee t the wider community and his immediate neighbours are safer now that he is gone, that is just a side outcome.


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    #158
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    innocent in the eyes of the law. they are guilty AF
    You can believe what you want but ultimately it's irrelevant. Same as my or anyone else's beliefs.


    What matters is the law of the land where the alleged offence took place and the outcome of the court of said land


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    #159
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Yes, it is unfortunate what happens, but, people die all the time at the hands of others and it doesnt mean it's murder. It can be accidental, manslaughter, self defense, etc.


    That's what the trial will test. And as a reminder, everyone is innocent until and unless proven otherwise in a court of law.

    It's not an unfortunate accident. They armed themselves, got a cameraman and hunted him down. He was unarmed and had nothing on him. They made a choice to take his life because his life didn't matter to them. Think for one minute the state of mind you have to have and the hatred to plan something like this and pull that trigger. To take someone's life as if it was nothing. Insane.


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    #160
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Danzy wrote: »
    The question is whether it was reasonable force used.

    These things are never clear cut or, pun intended, a black and white issue.

    What we can all agree on is th aee t the wider community and his immediate neighbours are safer now that he is gone, that is just a side outcome.


    Good point, and it raises another question.
    If there was no shooting, mr Arbury could be prosecuted for trespass or attempted larceny, given the video evidence of him "casing the joint" at an empty property.


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    #161
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    It's not an unfortunate accident. They armed themselves, got a cameraman and hunted him down. He was unarmed and had nothing on him. They made a choice to take his life because his life didn't matter to them. Think for one minute the state of mind you have to have and the hatred to plan something like this and pull that trigger. To take someone's life as if it was nothing. Insane.
    And thats your view of what happened.
    I say it again:
    ELM327 wrote: »
    You can believe what you want but ultimately it's irrelevant. Same as my or anyone else's beliefs.


    What matters is the law of the land where the alleged offence took place and the outcome of the court of said land


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    #162
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I would.
    Sounds like a good tight knit community watch, with an ex police man in the vicinity. Perfect place to live.

    With a known aggressive racist for a son and a daughter who posts up dead bodies on snapchat. Guessing you're not black. What a statement from privilege.


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    #163
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,748 ✭✭✭degsie


    Seems like this is typical American "Police of the World" crap being played out in a local community.


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    #164
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Then the question is was there legal basis.
    If they were trying to make a citizens arrest and were attacked by Arbery then I would suspect they were covered under "stand your ground"

    How long would you consider reasonable to chase someone with guns before you can stop claiming they attacked you?


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    #165
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    ELM327 wrote: »
    And thats your view of what happened.
    I say it again:

    They weren't sitting in their own home in the process of getting robbed, now were they.


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    #166
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    With a known aggressive racist for a son and a daughter who posts up dead bodies on snapchat. Guessing you're not black. What a statement from privilege.
    Not everything is a race issue.
    My race is irrelevant.


    Black people "get off" and white people get wrongly convicted too. It's not just one way.


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    #167
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    How long would you consider reasonable to chase someone with guns before you can stop claiming they attacked you?
    Once they charged at me, like mr Arbery can be seen doing, all bets are off.
    Same as the John Frog Ward case here.
    Stateofyou wrote: »
    They weren't sitting in their own home in the process of getting robbed, now were they.
    Irrelevant.


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    #168
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I would.
    Sounds like a good tight knit community watch, with an ex police man in the vicinity. Perfect place to live.

    You were talking about the presumption of innocence earlier. Pity that they didn't extend the same courtesy before confronting an unarmed man with guns.
    They're thugs, pure and simple.


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    #169
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I would.
    Sounds like a good tight knit community watch, with an ex police man in the vicinity. Perfect place to live.

    Yet the same guys couldnt do anything about the white people (kids and adults) doing the same thing Arbery did. Funny that.


    I live in a housing estate in Tallaght. I know my neighbours and its a quiet Cul De Sac. We've managed to go decades without the need to chase down and kill anyone.


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    #170
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Not everything is a race issue.
    My race is irrelevant.


    Black people "get off" and white people get wrongly convicted too. It's not just one way.

    No one is making "everything" a race issue but it certainly comes into play here. The fact that McGregory's classmates say he was the most obsessively racist they ever knew. The fact that others (white people) entered that same building site and didn't get hunted down. The fact that police brutality, jailing and targeting of black people is disproportionate to white people as is easily statistically shown in the US. No black person would say they feel safe in a neighbourhood like that with known racists and trigger happy wannabe militias. The fact that you would feel safe there is down to the colour of your skin. That is privilege.


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    #171
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Once they charged at me, like mr Arbery can be seen doing, all bets are off.
    Same as the John Frog Ward case here.


    it has already been explained that you cannot claim self defence if you initiate the confrontation. and shooting one man who charges at two is hardly reasonable force.


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    #172
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Once they charged at me, like mr Arbery can be seen doing, all bets are off.
    Same as the John Frog Ward case here.


    Irrelevant.

    Very relevant. What does neighbourhood crime or even alleged crime not even on their property have to do with these clowns. Or having the right to take matters into their own hands becoming executioners before any process of justice. Ahmaud had rights too. The right to due process of justice. Relevant because he would have no one to charge at if he wasn't being hunted down by armed thugs.


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    #173
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    one black man is murdered per day in the south side of Chicago

    Almost always by another Black Man !


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    #174
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Once they charged at me, like mr Arbery can be seen doing, all bets are off.
    Same as the John Frog Ward case here.

    .

    He didnt charge at them. They were in front of him, in a car, armed. There was another car behind chasing him . He went around their car and the son moved around the front too.

    Maybe he should have just let them shoot him in the back so that people could stop blaming him for getting shot.

    But then, the video of that wouldnt have made it out so theyd probably just claim he was carrying an AK47......


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    #175
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    blinding wrote: »
    Almost always by another Black Man !

    Yeah and guess what - its overwhelmingly white men who commit domestic terrorism, but neither of those subjects belong in this conversation.


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    #176
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    RollieFingers wrote: »
    If you thought of a stereotypical racist redneck it would be the younger of these two murderers, the state of him!

    Are you being Racist or a Bigot ? ?


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    #177
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    blinding wrote: »
    Are you being Racist or a Bigot ? ?

    I don't think that word (racist) means what you think it means. Look into what racism is. Assumptions and stereotypes about white people is called prejudice, not racism. Racism is about the systemic relationship of power.



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    #178
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    I don't think that word (racist) means what you think it means. Look into what racism is. Assumptions and stereotypes about white people is called prejudice, not racism. Racism is about the systemic relationship of power.

    So a Powerful Wealthy Black Person could not be Racist against White People ! ! !:eek:


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    #179
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    blinding wrote: »
    So a Powerful Wealthy Black Person could not be Racist against White People ! ! !:eek:

    Short answer - no. Please look into why reverse racism isn't a thing. Could he/she be prejudiced against white people? Yes.


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    #180
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    I don't think that word (racist) means what you think it means. Look into what racism is. Assumptions and stereotypes about white people is called prejudice, not racism. Racism is about the systemic relationship of power.


    Maybe you need to understand what the word means because clearly by non made up American ideas you dont


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    #181
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    I don't think that word (racist) means what you think it means. Look into what racism is. Assumptions and stereotypes about white people is called prejudice, not racism. Racism is about the systemic relationship of power.


    Anyone from any race can be racist.


This discussion has been closed.
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