Do you believe in UFOs & flying saucers ?

yourdeadwright

whatawaster81 wrote: »

Have you not seen the footage where it breaks the lock, essentially an act of war. They can't even lock onto it, it moves so fast in different directions.

Do you honestly think something could get here form another Galaxy and not be capable of staying out of our view, ?


How come none have ever been picked up or sighted in Space ?


Its military to think other wise is naive

Hamsterchops

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its military to think other wise is naive

Here.

yourdeadwright

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Here.

Let me guess no decent picture,


It's 2021 if you claim your seeing something that you can't get a decent picture of with todays camera's ( plus your military not like a Nokia camera phones is the height of your budget ) you either don't want a picture ore your lying ,

Hamsterchops

So maybe Fravor & Dietrich are lying.

But why?

yourdeadwright

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So maybe Fravor & Dietrich are lying.

But why?

No idea I don't know them ,
They don't even have to be lying they could just not know what there looking at,


How in this day an age can you honestly believe there are no good quality picture's , come on that is nonsense

I see sheep

No.

BorneTobyWilde

steddyeddy

The report was commissioned so that the intelligence services would asses the threat presented by unidentified aerial phenomenon. The report should only assess what it thinks these objects are, what threat they pose and based on these it should issue recommendations in dealing with them.

steddyeddy

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do you honestly think something could get here form another Galaxy and not be capable of staying out of our view, ?


How come none have ever been picked up or sighted in Space ?

Its military to think other wise is naive

You see these are questions. You don't use questions to explain observations you use available data and make judgements based on that.

Could you back up your claim that these are military with facts?

yourdeadwright

steddyeddy wrote: »

You see these are questions. You don't use questions to explain observations you use available data and make judgements based on that.

Could you back up your claim that these are military with facts?

I seen Big foot , look at my pictures , see somethings there in the woods ,
Wait what you don't believe me because I have no clear pictures but sure why would I lie ?


Ok it must be a giant ape so,


No clear videos or pictures...…….. no space crafts
.

Rhys Essien

Take a listen here of Obama speaking last night on the subject.

https://twitter.com/foiaboi/status/1394736321722191879?s=21

whatawaster81

^^^ He certainly wasn't saying that before

Hamsterchops

Luis Elizondo, a former DOD official who investigated UAP for nearly a decade, says these vehicles display technology far superior to anything in any nation's inventory. "Imagine a technology that can do 600 to 700 G-forces, that can fly 13,000 miles an hour, that, that can evade radar and can fly through air and water and possibly space, and oh, by the way, has no obvious signs of propulsion, no wings, no control surfaces and yet still can defy the natural effects of Earth's gravity. That's precisely what we're seeing."

Link with full text; https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ufo-military-intelligence-60-minutes-2021-05-14/

Beechwoodspark

That Elizondo fella doesn’t come across as believable

Out for publicity similar to the Corbell lad

Hamsterchops

And Obama?

Capt'n Midnight

Larbre34 wrote: »

I don't accept for a second that the standard issue tracking systems on our earthbound military assets have the ability to track that kind of movement accurately or reliably.

Yes they do. It's a simple matter of subtracting one radar frequency from another. Technically all you have to do is measure the beat frequency from an oscillator.

Without checking I can't confirm if that ship was calibrated to re-entry velocities, but the accompanying guided missile ships are, and if there are any doubters the US Navy has shot down a satellite.


GPS only works because ground stations determine the precise orbit of the satellites which then advertise it to the receivers which then do the hard maths.

Capt'n Midnight

Hamsterchops wrote: »

In June . . .

Drip drip feed of revelations for the last six months or so, leading up to the official US Government disclosure in June. Let's wait and see.

Remember the Life On Mars announcement ?

https://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/clinton.html

steddyeddy

What Obama says is significant. It also leads me to believe that they don't think it's technology from a foreign nation. Otherwise they wouldn't admit that there is unknown foreign craft in US airspace.

steddyeddy

I was looking at 60 minutes and I'm absolutely amazed by the sea change in relation to UFO reports. The main take away I took for it is that the pilots who had these encounters felt happy that there was less stigma involved in these events. They also encouraged other pilots to make their reports public too.

On the converse to that is the fact that some of the sceptics are hardening their opposition to this in the form of ridicule. They're literally holding back research into this topic because they're making it harder for people to come forward through fear of ridicule.

From my point of view I think it's also not good to leap to conclusions as to what these things are. The fact some people do this also can make it harder for people to report these things.

I'm happy to that the US government are stating that there's unidentified objects in US airspace and they don't know what they are. The fact that radar operators and pilots are giving us details as to the capabilities of these things also allows us to rule out conventional aircraft ect.

Finally, I'm surprised to see that even Newsnight has even covered the story soberly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFlFueC6MO0

steddyeddy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

That Elizondo fella doesn’t come across as believable

Out for publicity similar to the Corbell lad

Well I'm not very fond of him but he is an ex intelligence official who had top clearance within the Pentagon.

You can't compare him with Corbell who's a extremely self promoting.

The pilots and radar operators are key for me.

buried

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well I'm not very fond of him but he is an ex intelligence official who had top clearance within the Pentagon.

Why does any of that make you believe you can trust this gadge?

steddyeddy

buried wrote: »

Why does any of that make you believe you can trust this gadge?

I wouldn't on his own TBH but every incidence he reported has since been confirmed by pilots and radar operators.

Hamsterchops

So just leaving the characters aside for one moment, I think it has now been officially accepted that there are unexplained aerial phenomon in our skies. Phenomon that acts in ways & behaviour inexplicable to our understanding. Obama.

Not saying it's aliens, definatelty not saying it's aliens, but then the window for explanation is very very small, because if this phenomon is not man made or alien, then what the hell is it?

1 atmospherics/ball lightening?
2 another earthbound lifeform?
3 another dimension?

There is something unexplained, but what is it?

buried

steddyeddy wrote: »

I wouldn't on his own TBH but every incidence he reported has since been confirmed by pilots and radar operators.

All under the watch and clearance of the likes of the Pentagon and the nefarious watch of the likes of the United States Intelligence agencies, a crowd of psy-op towergrids I wouldn't trust to give me the time of day given their worldwide and widespread acts of global criminality and lies. Unless you know any of these pilots and radar operators personally, you'd really want to take anything that's coming out of the mouths of these characters, who you do not even know or cannot even verify, very, very sceptically.

steddyeddy

yourdeadwright wrote: »

No idea I don't know them ,
They don't even have to be lying they could just not know what there looking at,


How in this day an age can you honestly believe there are no good quality picture's , come on that is nonsense

I think the "picture argument" is disingenuous. There is no picture that dogmatic "this doesn't exist therefore it can't" sceptics won't say is fake.

The latest photos (below) which were discussed on 60 minutes were taken from a cockpit of a fighter jet. They pilots also stated that these objects moved in ways far superior to their aircraft. The Pentagon also confirmed that the objects in this photo are unidentified.





There is no photo that could be taken that someone like yourself wouldn't accuse of being faked.

steddyeddy

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So just leaving the characters aside for one moment, I think it has now been officially accepted that there are unexplained aerial phenomon in our skies. Phenomon that acts in ways & behaviour inexplicable to our understanding. Obama.

Not saying it's aliens, definatelty not saying it's aliens, but then the window for explanation is very very small, because if this phenomon is not man made or alien, then what the hell is it?

1 atmospherics/ball lightening?
2 another earthbound lifeform?
3 another dimension?

There is something unexplained, but what is it?

It was discussed on Newsnight the other night.

The three possibilities were listed as

1. Secret US projects
2. Foreign powers
3. Extraterrestrials

Your options, particularly the first two certainly account for a huge amount of strange sightings.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think the "picture argument" is disingenuous. There is no picture that dogmatic "this doesn't exist therefore it can't" sceptics won't say is fake.

The latest photos (below) which were discussed on 60 minutes were taken from a cockpit of a fighter jet. They pilots also stated that these objects moved in ways far superior to their aircraft. The Pentagon also confirmed that the objects in this photo are unidentified.





There is no photo that could be taken that someone like yourself wouldn't accuse of being faked.

I hate to quote my own post but looking at the top picture you could conceivably say it could be some new high altitude drone. I have no clue what the second picture could be. The pilots stated that this object was a metallic cube in a transparent energy shield.

silliussoddius

steddyeddy wrote: »

It was discussed on Newsnight the other night.

The three possibilities were listed as

1. Secret US projects
2. Foreign powers
3. Extraterrestrials

Your options, particularly the first two certainly account for a huge amount of strange sightings.

I’d say a combination of 1 & 2, with 1 even being tested on their own team. UFOs provide a nice cover like they did for area 51 when they were doing their thing.
3 is not impossible, I just think unlikely and should only be considered after every possible earth bound explanation is exhausted and can’t be embraced because of things like trained observers. I think it will only be completely proven when they say howiya. Way too much nonsense to wade through these days.

Hamsterchops

steddyeddy wrote: »

It was discussed on Newsnight the other night.

The three possibilities were listed as

1. Secret US projects
2. Foreign powers
3. Extraterrestrials

Your options, particularly the first two certainly account for a huge amount of strange sightings.

But what about the Mach 15 speed?
The ability to then come to a full stop!
To dive from 80k feet to ground level in 0.79s.
To be able to travel through air & water.
To change direction like a ping pong ball.

It's all very odd and surely beyond manmade ability, no? Certainly can't be manned craft, as apparently a human pilot would be turned into jam such would be the G force of such manoeuvres, and if it drone technology, then where the hell has it come from?

Anyone got a link to the Newsnight chat?

steddyeddy

silliussoddius wrote: »

I’d say a combination of 1 & 2, with 1 even being tested on their own team. UFOs provide a nice cover like they did for area 51 when they were doing their thing.
3 is not impossible, I just think unlikely and should only be considered after every possible earth bound explanation is exhausted and can’t be embraced because of things like trained observers. I think it will only be completely proven when they say howiya. Way too much nonsense to wade through these days.

You're very right, however, I would doubt the 1st option to some degree (although still likely as an explanation) as pilots are supposed to be informed when there's test flights in the area. It's still a possibility though!

I'm glad right now that we're at a stage where we can state that there's some unidentified objects in our atmosphere with a collective set of aerodynamic characteristics.

buried

Hamsterchops wrote: »

It's all very odd and surely beyond manmade ability, no? Certainly can't be manned craft, as apparently a human pilot would be turned into jam such would be the G force of such manoeuvres, and if it drone technology, then where the hell has it come from?

Maybe it's nothing but lies. Ever think of that? The same sort of lies that Agent curveball AKA Rafid Ahmed Alwan convinced the almighty Pentagon to go invade Iraq 20 years ago. A lot of those lies were based on Hollywood made motion pictures too.

steddyeddy

Hamsterchops wrote: »

But what about the Mach 15 speed?
The ability to then come to a full stop!
To dive from 80k feet to ground level in 0.79s.
To be able to travel through air & water.
To change direction like a ping pong ball.

It's all very odd and surely beyond manmade ability, no? Certainly can't be manned craft, as apparently a human pilot would be turned into jam such would be the G force of such manoeuvres, and if it drone technology, then where the hell has it come from?

Anyone got a link to the Newsnight chat?

You're very right H. I have no explanation for these.

The fact that it seems to have instantaneous acceleration and thousands of miles and hour means that whatever it is moves far, far in advance of what we know about aeronautical engineering.

I have my own beliefs and deep down I would find it hard to believe these are made by anyone we know.

Here's the NN link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFlFueC6MO0

steddyeddy

buried wrote: »

Maybe it's nothing but lies. Ever think of that? The same sort of lies that Agent curveball AKA Rafid Ahmed Alwan convinced the almighty Pentagon to go invade Iraq 20 years ago. A lot of those lies were based on Hollywood made motion pictures too.

TBF every major power has made these claims.

buried

steddyeddy wrote: »

TBF every major power has made these claims.

What claims?

steddyeddy

buried wrote: »

What claims?

That their pilots witness craft with capabilities far in excess of their own.

Beechwoodspark

Perhaps Obama wasn’t given the full story

Very much doubt the intelligence agencies were giving the full story to trump or ol man Biden.

buried

steddyeddy wrote: »

That their pilots witness craft with capabilities far in excess of their own.

You would have to show me exactly where these major powers have claimed so, and in the exact timeline. The US Military had prototypes for the likes of the Stealth Bomber back in the 60's so its highly likely that if the soviet states, lets say, encountered anything like that back then, they wouldn't know what the Hell those birds were either. I'm talking about LIES, and the USA's notorious and undeniable effort to spread lies and "known unknowns" throughout its existence to perpetrate its own global hegemony. Which, IMO, this is exactly what this new UFO/UAP craic is all about. From a known historical viewpoint, this is what makes the most sense.

zivanz

I don't have time to watch the sky, and when I do my eyes start to water

Hamsterchops

steddyeddy wrote: »

Here's the NN link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFlFueC6MO0

Ah, many thank for that, and hosted by the most wonderful of earthbound beings, the radiant and beautiful Emily Maitlis, who is definatelty not an alien.

Psychlops

Season 2 is out now but not in Europe yet?

briany

Do I think that objects are sometimes spotted in the sky which are unidentified? Yep. Do I think it's extraterrestrials? Wouldn't jump to that conclusion right away. To me, that concept doesn't add up, but maybe someone else could point out the flaws in my mental arithmetic...

So, there's probably life elsewhere in the universe, but we don't know if having life on a planet is a guarantee that it evolves into a more intelligent form. Then, we don't know if every planet has the resources to attain a spacefaring civilization. We don't know if every planet can avoid the kind of natural disasters or artificial disaster which would wipe a civilization out or send it back to the stone age. We don't even know if every lifeform evolves into something which is even aware that there is an outer space above it, having developed wildly different sensory organs adapted to a completely different planetary environment. So there could be a lot of filters which prevent much of the life that develops ever even getting into space.

Then there's the question of distance and physics. The distances in space are vast and do not yet know of a definite way to travel faster than light. Now, we have hypotheses of how it could be done, but we have no definite practical answer either. We can assume that alien species more advanced than us have found a way, but because it's all an unknown, we could just as easily assume that it really is impossible.

Then there's the question of how UFOs are said to operate. They light up, they are funny shapes, and always fast enough to be out of reach. To me, if a highly advanced species wanted to elude us with their probes or ships, why wouldn't they design something that was imperceptible to us in the first place? If they were unconcerned about eluding us, they could just come down and study us in an incredibly obvious way. And then on the point of abduction, it seems like an awfully crude way to operate for an advanced lifeform, and essentially the interstellar equivalent of bundling someone in a van. To me it seems suspect that aliens would be advanced enough to reach Earth but not advanced enough to do their business in a more sophisticated and stealthy way.

Then there's the problem of alien physiognomy. Humanoids with big heads, and black eyes and small bodies. Usually physically frail. Never a round ball covered in tentacles or something. Think of the diverse range of lifeforms found on this planet, and then extrapolate that to the unfathomable vastness of the cosmos, and yet we always come back to humanoids. This doesn't make any sense.

And then historically, the idea of UFOs and flying saucers only really came into being back in the 1940s. Before that it was phantom airships in the 19th century. Now, we talk about the rapidity of technological progress at that time, but to go from hulking airships to sleek hunks of physics-defying metal in less than a hundred years was no mean feat, even for those aliens.

Danonino.

The jump to aliens I agree is a jump that might be too hard to make. But the endless possibilities outside it all being extraterrestrial are fascinating.

Like, if it’s us. Just not us now, multiverse, time travel, simulation, experiment etc etc

Like I’m not saying that’s what these craft are. I don’t know. I have zero idea, but I find the fact none knows to be fascinating.

Like arguably if we can simulate a world in some form as it is. It’s possible* that we will eventually be able to simulate a indistinguishable world to our own at some point far in the future. How would we know if we aren’t part of that simul........ etc

lintdrummer

buried wrote: »

You would have to show me exactly where these major powers have claimed so, and in the exact timeline. The US Military had prototypes for the likes of the Stealth Bomber back in the 60's so its highly likely that if the soviet states, lets say, encountered anything like that back then, they wouldn't know what the Hell those birds were either. I'm talking about LIES, and the USA's notorious and undeniable effort to spread lies and "known unknowns" throughout its existence to perpetrate its own global hegemony. Which, IMO, this is exactly what this new UFO/UAP craic is all about. From a known historical viewpoint, this is what makes the most sense.

The problem with this argument is that the observations we are aware of are of craft that defy our understanding of physics.

The stealth bomber or the Blackbird if observed by anyone would still be quite obviously an aircraft with wings, control surfaces and an exhaust plume, operating within the conventional envelope of aerodynamics and physics.

The observations we are discussing now involve objects with no discernable aerodynamic properties nor discernable means of propulsion. Yet they can accelerate at rates that would not only kill any occupant, the aerodynamic forces would destroy the material the craft is made of. Thus they appear to be unaffected by the atmosphere itself.

To me it's just as unbelievable that these are man made as it is unbelievable they are extraterrestrial in origin. We just simply do not have the capability to create or operate a machine in the way these operate. It should be impossible.

Then there's the issue of lies. Why lie? A coverup for their own prototype testing? The evidence seen so far has all come from the US military itself. The images and video are unclassified. If this was tech that the Pentagon wanted to keep secret, why say anything at all? They weren't observed by the public, no lies were needed.

Capt'n Midnight

Could still be a slight measuring error. There's a lot of not fit for purpose software in the aerospace industry, yes I'm looking at you Boeing for screwing up royally after the deaths caused by mismanagement on the 737.

Fighter jets have rebooted when crossing the international date line. And lost control when flying below sea level. Stuff that should have been noticed before any code was written.

Wibbs

briany wrote: »

Then there's the problem of alien physiognomy. Humanoids with big heads, and black eyes and small bodies. Usually physically frail. Never a round ball covered in tentacles or something. Think of the diverse range of lifeforms found on this planet, and then extrapolate that to the unfathomable vastness of the cosmos, and yet we always come back to humanoids. This doesn't make any sense.

Actually it does. If we look at different species on this planet and how they evolve to exploit different environments and modes of living we tend to find strong similarities in physiognomy as a response to those environments and modes of living.





All very different species, mammal, bony fish, reptile, shark, but very similar "designs". Now there are of course other methods and types of swimmers, but that shape appears to be the most advantageous. Flying animals are similar.

So looking at the only intelligent and technological species to spring up on planet earth, us it seems there is likely to be a pattern here too. Any such species or potential species will require two limbs free and a method of grasping and fine controlled grip and manipulation, IE "Hands". If the pattern on other planets is of four limbed animals then bipedalism in intelligent life is most likely. Binocular vision will be a major bonus, which will also tend to mean predator ancestry and social predator ancestry with it. Big brains are a given. This takes round balls covered in tentacles out of it. Octopuses have very large brains, but most of that grey matter is tasked with trying to keep track of the tentacles. We can keep our grey matter low in that area because we have skeletons, so our movements are limited by certain data points which is actually an advantage.

Now of course other environments like a water world would give rise to a different intelligence and modes of being, or such a world wouldn't, who knows, but on a world something like ours with a similar gravity(likely as a larger world would make it incredibly difficult to get into space) and general evolutionary paths bipedal with hands, binocular, large brained, skeleton(exo/endo) type creatures would likely be the general theme.

Sakana

steddyeddy wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFlFueC6MO0

Big goofy cartoon UFO on the screen behind her. When you see them dispense with stuff like that, then the real journalism into the phenomenon will start.

yourdeadwright

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think the "picture argument" is disingenuous. There is no picture that dogmatic "this doesn't exist therefore it can't" sceptics won't say is fake.

The latest photos (below) which were discussed on 60 minutes were taken from a cockpit of a fighter jet. They pilots also stated that these objects moved in ways far superior to their aircraft. The Pentagon also confirmed that the objects in this photo are unidentified.





There is no photo that could be taken that someone like yourself wouldn't accuse of being faked.

The picture looks like a chip in the glass,

Why can't anyone zoom on any of thee the objects ever
Surely they have the technology to zoom in and at least have a decent look at them ,


Not buying that they can only get atrocious pictures ,


Surely when these things are noted the first order is to go get decent picture ?

EmmetSpiceland

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think the "picture argument" is disingenuous. There is no picture that dogmatic "this doesn't exist therefore it can't" sceptics won't say is fake.

The latest photos (below) which were discussed on 60 minutes were taken from a cockpit of a fighter jet. They pilots also stated that these objects moved in ways far superior to their aircraft. The Pentagon also confirmed that the objects in this photo are unidentified.





There is no photo that could be taken that someone like yourself wouldn't accuse of being faked.

The first picture looks very similar to one of those ‘Genesis’ satellites sent up by Bigelow Aerospace.

EmmetSpiceland

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually it does. If we look at different species on this planet and how they evolve to exploit different environments and modes of living we tend to find strong similarities in physiognomy as a response to those environments and modes of living.

All very different species, mammal, bony fish, reptile, shark, but very similar "designs". Now there are of course other methods and types of swimmers, but that shape appears to be the most advantageous. Flying animals are similar.

So looking at the only intelligent and technological species to spring up on planet earth, us it seems there is likely to be a pattern here too. Any such species or potential species will require two limbs free and a method of grasping and fine controlled grip and manipulation, IE "Hands". If the pattern on other planets is of four limbed animals then bipedalism in intelligent life is most likely. Binocular vision will be a major bonus, which will also tend to mean predator ancestry and social predator ancestry with it. Big brains are a given. This takes round balls covered in tentacles out of it. Octopuses have very large brains, but most of that grey matter is tasked with trying to keep track of the tentacles. We can keep our grey matter low in that area because we have skeletons, so our movements are limited by certain data points which is actually an advantage.

Now of course other environments like a water world would give rise to a different intelligence and modes of being, or such a world wouldn't, who knows, but on a world something like ours with a similar gravity(likely as a larger world would make it incredibly difficult to get into space) and general evolutionary paths bipedal with hands, binocular, large brained, skeleton(exo/endo) type creatures would likely be the general theme.

I remember hearing a radio interview with an astrobiologist, or planetary scientist, who said that it’s highly likely the main similarity between us and an alien would be eyes.

This “theory” was based on the octopus, or cephalopods, evolving separately but still being, somewhat, similar.

steddyeddy

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

The first picture looks very similar to one of those ‘Genesis’ satellites sent up by Bigelow Aerospace.

These things? Are you sure about that and what are they doing at that altitude? Satellites get launched into orbit by rockets. They don't fly up under their own power.