Mortgage drawdown refused due to maternity leave

johnnytdi

Good morning all

Was due to drawdown our mortgage this week but bank have come back and said we cannot draw down until my wife goes back to work and gets her first payslip. We were meant to close in two weeks time.

We have provided a letter from my wife’s employer stating return to work date and that salary and hours will remain unchanged when she does return.

Current maternity pay is same as salary does anybody know if this could be appealed or is anyone in the same position.

Thanks.

ladystardust

johnnytdi wrote: »

Good morning all

Was due to drawdown our mortgage this week but bank have come back and said we cannot draw down until my wife goes back to work and gets her first payslip. We were meant to close in two weeks time.

We have provided a letter from my wife’s employer stating return to work date and that salary and hours will remain unchanged when she does return.

Current maternity pay is same as salary does anybody know if this could be appealed or is anyone in the same position.

Thanks.

I didn't get to drawdown stage, but applied when I was on maternity leave as opposed to applying when pregnant. This is significant in that the baby was already here when we applied so it technicallywasnt a change of circumstances. Basically only one bank even looked at us but did need a return to work letter and they were querying whether to insist upon a pay slip before issuing. I asked why, with the letter but this does only show intent. There is no guarantee that she will return.
We lost the mortgage for other reasons (thank ou pandemic). You could try to appeal the situation but I think it depends on the bank. A friend of mine drew down on maternity leave but this was several years ago when things were more stable. It seems a lot like it's a case by case thing.

ladystardust

Also, I'm so sorry for the situation, its horrible to have your plans derailed through no fault of your own. Congrats on the new addition and I hope you get sorted with something.

johnnytdi

ladystardust wrote: »

Also, I'm so sorry for the situation, its horrible to have your plans derailed through no fault of your own. Congrats on the new addition and I hope you get sorted with something.

Thanks for your reply and congratulations. Sorry things did not work out for you I will speak to my solicitor to get some advice and see what happens from there.

Trish56

I'm a mortgage broker and from my experience all lenders accept your income when you are on maternity leave and as you mentioned all that is required is a letter from your employer stating the date that you are due to return to work and confirming all your existing terms and conditions remain the same.

Are you getting paid from your employer when on maternity leave?

I drew down a case last week where the loan approval was issued when the applicant was pregnant and lender was not informed of same as this information is not requested on the application. When we went to drawdown the mortgage we had to submit April payslips and bank statements due to new Coved 19 process - it then came to light that the applicant was on maternity leave and I did not at that stage have to submit a letter from her employer however her payslip and bank statement showed she was getting paid by her employer and none of the applicants were receiving the Coved subsidy.

I would be interested to know who the lender is as I have not been informed by any lender that the policy regarding maternity leave has changed.

Buchaill Og

@Trish56
Sorry if this is off topic but considering your role I am interested in your thoughts on the below.
We are a married couple doing a self build. Signed our mortgage offer in Feb. 2020 and completed the first stage. When we went to draw down we were refused due to wife being on the unemployment pavement. She is going back to work on Monday next and we were thrilled to hear this as we could start collecting the 4 weeks payslips requested by UB before they release funds. However we have just found out the employer is actually putting all employees on the subsidy scheme - again the bank won’t allow draw down when one of us is on this.
My question is, if a couple came to you with self created payslips and you were informed would you submit them?

I welcome anyone else’s input.

Henry Ford III

Buchaill Og wrote: »

@Trish56
Sorry if this is off topic but considering your role I am interested in your thoughts on the below.
We are a married couple doing a self build. Signed our mortgage offer in Feb. 2020 and completed the first stage. When we went to draw down we were refused due to wife being on the unemployment pavement. She is going back to work on Monday next and we were thrilled to hear this as we could start collecting the 4 weeks payslips requested by UB before they release funds. However we have just found out the employer is actually putting all employees on the subsidy scheme - again the bank won’t allow draw down when one of us is on this.
My question is, if a couple came to you with self created payslips and you were informed would you submit them?

I welcome anyone else’s input.

Wouldn't that be fraud? Careful now.

Jim2007

Buchaill Og wrote: »

My question is, if a couple came to you with self created payslips and you were informed would you submit them?

You would be participating in a fraud. I don't see that it would be worth your wile to risk our career for a client...

Trish56

I didn't answer your question as to be honest I thought a moderator would have asked you to delete it as yes it is FRAUD that you are suggesting and for the record NO I would most definitely NOT submit self created payslips on your behalf to a lender nor would I be interested in processing a mortgage application on your behalf with that attitude.

After more than 40 years in the Mortgage Business protecting my Integrity would be far more important to me than getting involved in Fraudulent activity for your benefit.

Buchaill Og wrote: »

@Trish56
Sorry if this is off topic but considering your role I am interested in your thoughts on the below.
We are a married couple doing a self build. Signed our mortgage offer in Feb. 2020 and completed the first stage. When we went to draw down we were refused due to wife being on the unemployment pavement. She is going back to work on Monday next and we were thrilled to hear this as we could start collecting the 4 weeks payslips requested by UB before they release funds. However we have just found out the employer is actually putting all employees on the subsidy scheme - again the bank won’t allow draw down when one of us is on this.
My question is, if a couple came to you with self created payslips and you were informed would you submit them?

I welcome anyone else’s input.

Buchaill Og

I didnt ask you to act on my behalf but thank you.
Not sure have you misread my post when you mention my attitude, never did I suggest a fraudulent transaction as an appropriate solution but thanks all the same.

Trish56

You addressed your question to me and asked would I submit self created payslips - this of course would suggest a fraudulent transaction.

Buchaill Og wrote: »

I didnt ask you to act on my behalf but thank you.
Not sure have you misread my post when you mention my attitude, never did I suggest a fraudulent transaction as an appropriate solution but thanks all the same.

cyclekeen

We are fearing this will happen to use very shortly as they have mentioned this is a potential request from the underwriter. Can you confirm what bank are asking you this?

cyclekeen

Trish56 wrote: »

I'm a mortgage broker and from my experience all lenders accept your income when you are on maternity leave and as you mentioned all that is required is a letter from your employer stating the date that you are due to return to work and confirming all your existing terms and conditions remain the same.

Are you getting paid from your employer when on maternity leave?

I drew down a case last week where the loan approval was issued when the applicant was pregnant and lender was not informed of same as this information is not requested on the application. When we went to drawdown the mortgage we had to submit April payslips and bank statements due to new Coved 19 process - it then came to light that the applicant was on maternity leave and I did not at that stage have to submit a letter from her employer however her payslip and bank statement showed she was getting paid by her employer and none of the applicants were receiving the Coved subsidy.

I would be interested to know who the lender is as I have not been informed by any lender that the policy regarding maternity leave has changed.

Bank of Ireland have mentioned to us that the underwriters may withhold our drawdown until my wife returns to work. We have already said this is a deal breaker from our side as she is not returning until Jan and have letters from her employer confirming she has her job and same pay on her return. We'll find out this week for certain but if we are required this we'll definitely be interested in your services to secure the same mortgage with another bank. Can you share your details with me if interested?

screamer

Banks have all sorts of formulas they apply to your circumstances. They deduct from Disposable income amount for each child you have. Right now, with so much uncertainty, banks are not going to take risks, just like in the last crash, they really left some people high and dry, mainly self builders. They are not going to expose themselves to additional risks where your ability to pay the mortgage might diminish if your wife decides she is not returning to work after maternity leave. It’s not fair for sure, but it’s their money and they decide who they loan to.

sean.casaidhe

Sounds like discrimination to me? If the only difference between your wife and any other person is that the pregancy, then that's discrimination. I would definitely demand a review on that basis.

cyclekeen

sean.casaidhe wrote: »

Sounds like discrimination to me? If the only difference between your wife and any other person is that the pregancy, then that's discrimination. I would definitely demand a review on that basis.

Thanks Sean, my thoughts exactly. Another thread suggested to involve your solicitor to liaise with said bank. It's comical as we already have a mortgage with this bank, have consistently overpaid our repayments for over three years and now they are making this request as we look to continue doing business with them from a mover capacity. Baffled and will definitely be a pain re-applying for other banks in the hope that they don't request the same.

phormium

Is she going to be paid by employer while on leave or is it just basic maternity benefit?

Dempo1

This is outrageous, I never knew this would be a reason to refuse a drawn down albeit recently banks seem to make up the rules as they go along, surely this decision is discriminatory and needs further investigation, just shocking.

cyclekeen

phormium wrote: »

Is she going to be paid by employer while on leave or is it just basic maternity benefit?

She went on leave in March, was paid in full for 6 months and only just went on unpaid leave this month. We secured approval in principle three months ago with the bank knowing all of this. She'll be returning next January on the same pay and has a letter from her employer confirming same, now they are mentioning the underwriters 'may' withhold the drawdown until she returns to work.

cyclekeen

Dempo1 wrote: »

This is outrageous, I never knew this would be a reason to refuse a drawn down albeit recently banks seem to make up the rules as they go along, surely this decision is discriminatory and needs further investigation, just shocking.

Our feelings exactly!

Dempo1

cyclekeen wrote: »

Our feelings exactly!

I'm just in shock at this decision, at the very least I'd be highlighting this issue in the media, that buffoon, Brian Hayes of the Irish Banking & Payments federation will have some explaining to do.

phormium

It's the lack of income so rather than the reason for it that is the issue, if you hurt your back and were out sick on very same income terms then I'd imagine an applicant would have the same issue.

However they should have advised you this would be an issue in the beginning, although rules are changing fast in banks especially with Covid issues so what might have seemed ok in March might not be now.

You could try the whole discrimination angle and they might just cave rather than put up with the hassle although I really don't think it is as same would probably apply to any mortgage application where one applicant was on unpaid leave at time of drawdown whatever the reason if their underwriters are looking for two payslips to prove income before drawdown.

Dempo1

phormium wrote: »

It's the lack of income so rather than the reason for it that is the issue, if you hurt your back and were out sick on very same income terms then I'd imagine an applicant would have the same issue.

However they should have advised you this would be an issue in the beginning, although rules are changing fast in banks especially with Covid issues so what might have seemed ok in March might not be now.

You could try the whole discrimination angle and they might just cave rather than put up with the hassle although I really don't think it is as same would probably apply to any mortgage application where one applicant was on unpaid leave at time of drawdown whatever the reason if their underwriters are looking for two payslips to prove income before drawdown.

I don't think the lack of income can be justified at all, not withstanding the costs of raising a child etc and the op has confirming in writing her position protected.

Maternity, Pregnancy protections are enshrined in Law and rightly protected, I cannot figure out what legal or other opinions the underwriters are getting here, it's just extraordinary. What next, your mortgage approval determined on how many children you intend to have, higher interest rate for twins ( OK, I'm over reacting) but this decision is both morally & I believe legally questionable.

phormium

Not saying any of it is right and don't think it has anything to do with future kids or cost of kids etc, I just think very same situation would apply if someone was out on leave for any reason and at the point of drawdown had no income which is the case here.

Yes it's starting again in new year but same could apply to anyone out on leave and I'd bet underwriters would say same thing.

Having said that I do think best chance of getting it changed is kick up a stink with the discrimination angle.

Eric Cartman

ladystardust wrote: »

Also, I'm so sorry for the situation, its horrible to have your plans derailed through no fault of your own. Congrats on the new addition and I hope you get sorted with something.

I think pregnancy is a choice these days for the most part. It just seems perfectly normal to me that a bank wouldn't want to draw down a mortgage thats offering is completely dependent on 2 incomes when one of those incomes isn't present. Employers can make all the guarantees they wan't but if somebody doesn't return to work for a multitude of reasons after their agreed maternity leave has ended that would open up the bank to a multitude of risks.

Dempo1

phormium wrote: »

Not saying any of it is right and don't think it has nothing to do with future kids or cost of kids etc, I just think very same situation would apply if someone was out on leave for any reason and at the point of drawdown had no income which is the case here.

Yes it's starting again in new year but same could apply to anyone out on leave and I'd bet underwriters would say same thing.

Having said that I do think best chance of getting it changed is kick up a stink with the discrimination angle.

Yes agreed, just an appalling situation and hope OP can get this resolved, enough stress I'm sure at the moment

Trish56

Are you dealing with Bank of Ireland directly or through a broker? I don't deal with them however I contacted a friend of mine who is a manager and she said nothing has changed and that once you have a letter to say your wife is returning to work in January you should be able to drawdown the mortgage. She did ask what her occupation was and if she had previously being getting a covid payment.

Sometimes mortgage advisors in the branches can be very inexperienced and pick up things incorrectly so hope you get sorted.

cyclekeen wrote: »

Bank of Ireland have mentioned to us that the underwriters may withhold our drawdown until my wife returns to work. We have already said this is a deal breaker from our side as she is not returning until Jan and have letters from her employer confirming she has her job and same pay on her return. We'll find out this week for certain but if we are required this we'll definitely be interested in your services to secure the same mortgage with another bank. Can you share your details with me if interested?

Jim2007

sean.casaidhe wrote: »

Sounds like discrimination to me? If the only difference between your wife and any other person is that the pregancy, then that's discrimination. I would definitely demand a review on that basis.

Banks like every other business are not obliged to do business with anyone in particular. So which law are you claiming they are discriminating under?

johnnytdi

Just to let you know we appealed the decision on the bases of discrimination against my wife Via a letter from our solicitor and 4 days later we had confirmation from the bank that we could draw down.

KilOit

This is awful.
Work hard, save hard and be responsible then have a child= no house
Don't work, be irresponsible, have many kids = free house

BrosnanL27

Trish56 wrote: »

Are you dealing with Bank of Ireland directly or through a broker? I don't deal with them however I contacted a friend of mine who is a manager and she said nothing has changed and that once you have a letter to say your wife is returning to work in January you should be able to drawdown the mortgage. She did ask what her occupation was and if she had previously being getting a covid payment.

Sometimes mortgage advisors in the branches can be very inexperienced and pick up things incorrectly so hope you get sorted.

Hi Trish

I'm just wondering if you've come across a situation we have found ourselves in before.

Myself and my husband currently have a mortgage offer from PTSB that is due to expire in April. We expect to draw down in March.
I am going on maternity leave for 6 months from February 8th. My employer will pay 70% of my wages for the 6 months and then will pay me the remaining 30% on month 3 of my return to work.
Can PTSB recalculate what they can loan us based on my reduced salary for that 6 month period? My employer can provide a letter explaining their maternity policy, that I will resume the same role with the same salary and my return date.

We'd be offered a good 50k less than what we have been approved if PTSB go that route.

Thank you