George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Guy:Incognito

kowloonkev wrote: »

. The Police Officer was arrested in the US. They should have stopped.
.

There were 4 of them, not just 1. two other were on him too.

and its not just about this one thing. To even suggest that is ridiculous. This has been building for a long time. With each kill its built and built. It was always goign to erupt eventually.

BorneTobyWilde

https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier/status/1267233565663727616

dwayneshintzy

kowloonkev wrote: »

It's very complicated and both sets of protestors should probably have stopped when they got what they set out to get. HK protestors got the bill withdrawn last year. They should have stopped. The Police Officer was arrested in the US. They should have stopped.

At leaat though the HK protestors seem to be one unit who still have a focus and clear targets. In the US I don't think there is any reasoning with them once this kind of rioting starts.

Disagree strongly here. It was only when protests got violent that the bill was even withdrawn, peaceful protests weren't gonna change Carrie Lam and the CCP's mind. The anthem bill, national security law, lack of democracy and representation in the election of a Chief Executive......why should they have stopped protesting? The extradition bill was the catalyst for protests, but it was by no means the only grievance. It was the "five demands" after all, with the extradition bill being only one of those.

Rjd2

beautiful to see.

https://twitter.com/Lukewearechange/status/1267251987793547265

Overheal

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier/status/1267233565663727616

This.

2u2me

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

2u2me, do you not think that these protests are heavily influenced by past protests for Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Trayvon Martin, etc? They're not isolated protests springing up over a single recent incident, there's a lot of anger that has been built up over the years.

You've defended HK protests, saying they only resorted to violence after the mask ban was brought in (which isn't technically true, violence was present before that). HK protests did eventually turn violent, as people had experience from protests against article 23 in 2003, the umbrella protests in 2014, getting nowhere with massive peaceful protests at the start of the fight against the extradition treaty, etc. I don't think it's consistent to defend "violent" actions of HK protestors and broadly condemn what's going on in the States now.

To answer your first paragraph yes. These things surely don't happen in a vacuum and I believe in the protestor's struggle. I just believe in more of a MLK approach. Which you must admit was more of the approach seen in HK early on.

The big difference in these protests comes down to the leadership and the media. In Hong Kong there were constant cries for "please don't be violent" repeatedly from the protest leaders, I think the media too?

If Hong Kong had received concessions they surely would have ended the protest, concessions offered up in the form of arresting and charging the officers involved. (or in Hong Kong's case shredding the extradition bill)

I don't see a goal in mind here, I don't see clear concessions that would appease the protesters.

What is it that they want to achieve here? I think we all realize their struggle and their plight, but this is just aimless violence and destruction now, however much of a political struggle it began with.

International support won't do a damn bit of good for America but it could have saved Hong Kong.

Overheal

2u2me wrote: »

To answer your first paragraph yes. These things surely don't happen in a vacuum and I believe in the protestor's struggle. I just believe in more of a MLK approach. Which you must admit was more of the approach seen in HK early on.

The big difference in these protests comes down to the leadership and the media. In Hong Kong there were constant cries for "please don't be violent" repeatedly from the protest leaders, I think the media too?

If Hong Kong had received concessions they surely would have ended the protest, concessions offered up in the form of arresting and charging the officers involved. (or in Hong Kong's case shredding the extradition bill)

I don't see a goal in mind here, I don't see clear concessions that would appease the protesters.

What is it that they want to achieve here? I think we all realize their struggle and their plight, but this is just aimless violence and destruction now, however much of a political struggle it began with.

International support won't do a damn bit of good for America but it could have saved Hong Kong.

We didn’t have a prolific MLK figure for this movement. Dialog fell down over a long period of time and injustices grew. Protestors were told “do it peacefully,” and they listened. A man took a knee. They said “no! Not like that...”

The goal is simple: hold police accountable.

WhiteMemento9

Overheal wrote: »

This.

More of This

https://twitter.com/chrryshabit/status/1267266261110620160

Overheal

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

More of This

https://twitter.com/chrryshabit/status/1267266261110620160

Yes. Thread needs more of the This. One This please.

dwayneshintzy

2u2me wrote: »

To answer your first paragraph yes. These things surely don't happen in a vacuum and I believe in the protestor's struggle. I just believe in more of a MLK approach. Which you must admit was more of the approach seen in HK early on.

The big difference in these protests comes down to the leadership and the media. In Hong Kong there were constant cries for "please don't be violent" repeatedly from the protest leaders, I think the media too?

If Hong Kong had received concessions they surely would have ended the protest, concessions offered up in the form of arresting and charging the officers involved. (or in Hong Kong's case shredding the extradition bill)

I don't see a goal in mind here, I don't see clear concessions that would appease the protesters.

What is it that they want to achieve here? I think we all realize their struggle and their plight, but this is just aimless violence and destruction now, however much of a political struggle it began with.

International support won't do a damn bit of good for America but it could have saved Hong Kong.

The five demands included amnesty for those charged with "rioting", and an independent inquiry into police actions against the protestors. The withdrawal of the extradition bill didn't end the protests; Carrie Lam refusing to remotely listen to peaceful protestors last May/June ensured that.



One officer has been arrested, the other 3 still haven't. Based on almost all past experience, protestors believe that that arrested police officer is very likely to get away with murder.



Hong Kong protestors wanted to paralyse the city to make clear their anger; they ripped up pavements and broke traffic lights to block roads, they smashed and torched businesses seen as affiliated to the mainland and CCP, etc. The government in HK said exactly what you're saying now; it was just aimless violence and destruction, and wouldn't help them achieve their aims.

Tokyo

BeakerTurtle69 wrote: »

You get what you deserve

BeakerTurtle69 wrote: »

He’s a lying scumbag who got what he deserved

BeakerTurtle69 wrote: »

Nah. He got what he deserved.

He’s a lying cretin.

BeakerTurtle69 wrote: »

You get what you deserve

BeakerTurtle69 wrote: »

You get what you deserve

Mod: Quit it with the soundbites and the rhetoric. If you can't contribute something more than "You get what you deserve", I'm going to start removing your posts.

BorneTobyWilde

A lot of dirty cops caught on tape. But a lot of good cops too, the dirty ones need firing.

Guy:Incognito

https://twitter.com/bernieblackbern/status/1265383131114332168?s=19

2u2me

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

The five demands included amnesty for those charged with "rioting", and an independent inquiry into police actions against the protestors. The withdrawal of the extradition bill didn't end the protests; Carrie Lam refusing to remotely listen to peaceful protestors last May/June ensured that.


One officer has been arrested, the other 3 still haven't. Based on almost all past experience, protestors believe that that arrested police officer is very likely to get away with murder.



Hong Kong protestors wanted to paralyse the city to make clear their anger; they ripped up pavements and broke traffic lights to block roads, they smashed and torched businesses seen as affiliated to the mainland and CCP, etc. The government in HK said exactly what you're saying now; it was just aimless violence and destruction, and wouldn't help them achieve their aims.

Anyone paying attention knows the HK government are lying. The protestors were the most part peaceful for a long time, very coordinated with clear goals in mind that were a matter of law. Changing laws.

Didn't they have 2/3 of the population out on the streets with umbrellas?

This seems to be more about subjective experience, which I don't mean to belittle, i've experienced racism, but it's not something you can fix by protesting without a clear goal and aim in mind, something you can change as a matter of law with the stroke of a pen.

I don't believe arresting those officers would have a bearing on these protests but perhaps you're right.

If this was Hong Kong they would be protesting to change the law(imo) that allows police to handle people in such a way. If the police officer does get away with it, the laws that allows this needs to be changed(or the accepted actions of a police officer need to be changed). I think that's the difference for me.

Guy:Incognito

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1266581004363476992?s=19

Yurt2

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1266581004363476992?s=19

Atlanta is a really cool city. Capital of black America. Large entrepreneurial African American middle class; civic-minded and with the 'Black Ivy League' universities like Morehouse and Spelman.

Not without its social issues of course, but a symbol of promise for African Americans. Great city to vist.

Overheal

Mehapoy

2u2me wrote: »

You conflate several points and then come to the wrong conclusion.

This was possible because of social media recordings yes. Without them it could have happened yes. But perhaps you wouldn't have the anarchy you have now if CNN didn't stoke the flames and continually talk about systematic racism in conjunction to this story; before the riots ever broke out.

The part in bold makes me not want to reply to you anymore.

Right so it's the 'lamestream' Media's fault for continually highlighting it and not the racist cops, people etc. Should have been buried deep down like in the good ole days?

Overheal

Mehapoy wrote: »

Right so it's the 'lamestream' Media's fault for continually highlighting it and not the racist cops, people etc. Should have been buried deep down like in the good ole days?

You’re not joking. The mass graves from the Tulsa riot still haven’t been found.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/02/03/tulsa-mass-graves-excavation/

2u2me

As much as I used to like the Daily show, I really dislike Trevor Noah. I'm not sure Stewart would agree with Noah's sentiment there.

In 2010 he held a "rally to restore sanity/and or fear" and he closed with this speech.

This was not a rally to ridicule people of faith, or people of activism, or look down our noses at the heartland, or passionate argument, or to suggest that times are not difficult and that we have nothing to fear. They are, and we do. But we live now in hard times, not end times.

To illustrate the point, he unveiled a mock motto for the rally: "Take it down a notch for America."

Overheal

2u2me wrote: »

As much as I used to like the Daily show, I really dislike Trevor Noah. I'm not sure Stewart would agree with Noah's sentiment there.

In 2010 he held a "rally to restore sanity/and or fear" and he closed with this speech.



To illustrate the point, he unveiled a mock motto for the rally: "Take it down a notch for America."

https://twitter.com/_waterislife_/status/751317925823258624?s=21

BeakerTurtle69

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: Quit it with the soundbites and the rhetoric. If you can't contribute something more than "You get what you deserve", I'm going to start removing your posts.

On the topic of over policing yeah?

You really dug up posts from two days ago and are now making up rules on the go.

How do you think you look?

brendanwalsh

The United States is beyond ****ed. Major cities destroyed.
New York Philadelphia Washington DC are in tatters.
National guard now in Philadelphia and LA.
Spreading Covid and violence, with no jobs to go to.
People cooped up for months now letting out years of frustration at trump and racism.
God help them.

peddlelies

Absolutely bonkers

https://13wham.com/news/local/woman-attacked-outside-rochester-business

Manic Moran

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Honestly, this is people standing at their own from door in the suburbs and army folk are marching down their road behind a humvee shooting paint rounds at them for opening their doors. They are on their own property, this isnt people out protesting in the city centre during a curfew.

Well, that's the thing about curfews. They tend to be rather drastic measures, and are by definition supposed to keep people where they can't get involved in things. As the FAQ states, if you're on your porch and the cops tell you to go inside, you go inside. https://dps.mn.gov/macc/Pages/faq.aspx There was probably a reason they were wandering down that particular street, and I doubt it was because they felt like doing some appreciation of the local architecture.

Overheal wrote: »

I don’t like seeing homeowners shot by police for standing at their own doors. I know Manic Moran disagrees, or at least sees the silver lining. That it’s quick and low impact policing. Though he is incorrect to say nobody is injured.

What injury, a welt? Protections against excessive force do not preclude the use of any force at all.

Overheal wrote: »

“My family’s restaurant caught fire in the Minneapolis protests.

Let it burn.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/31/my-familys-restaurant-caught-fire-protests-let-it-burn-oppressive-systems-with-it/

I guess her family's in a better financial situation than some.

Like this black firefighter who ended up being called to deal with his own business and life investment having been set alight. From the video, he seems less than accepting of the destruction.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/black-firefighter-devastated-minneapolis-riots-bar

If she wants to sacrifice her family business on the pyre in support, that's her concern. It's not exactly representative of all small businesses.

kowloonkev

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Disagree strongly here. It was only when protests got violent that the bill was even withdrawn, peaceful protests weren't gonna change Carrie Lam and the CCP's mind. The anthem bill, national security law, lack of democracy and representation in the election of a Chief Executive......why should they have stopped protesting? The extradition bill was the catalyst for protests, but it was by no means the only grievance. It was the "five demands" after all, with the extradition bill being only one of those.

I understand what you're saying and it's hard to know what would have happened but as we all know the best case scenario for the protestors in HK is delaying the inevitable, or hoping that some kind of change of leadership in Beijing will be more compromising.

Carrie Lam didn't exactly withdraw it but it was suspended or something fairly early on. Maybe they could have eased off at that stage and it would have disappeared and then maybe this year we wouldn't have the new security law. It could be argued that the protestors have dramatically sped up the whole process.

kowloonkev

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

There were 4 of them, not just 1. two other were on him too.

and its not just about this one thing. To even suggest that is ridiculous. This has been building for a long time. With each kill its built and built. It was always goign to erupt eventually.

I think you are right. The other officers should also face charges.

it is sometimes hard to separate the protestors from those criminals lowlives robbing places. Hopefully justice is served on all counts.

Tokyo

BeakerTurtle69 wrote: »

On the topic of over policing yeah?

You really dug up posts from two days ago and are now making up rules on the go.

How do you think you look?

Mod: 15 responses in this thread alone have been "He got what he deserved" and nothing more. If that is the sole strength of your argument then you have nothing more to contribute. Don't post in this thread again.

dwayneshintzy

Kidchameleon...... do you think George Floyd would have died that day if not for the actions of police?

And what possible relevance has his criminal history got to do with anything? Why are you bringing it up?

Kidchameleon

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Kidchameleon...... do you think George Floyd would have died that day if not for the actions of police?

And what possible relevance has his criminal history got to do with anything? Why are you bringing it up?

Yes he still would have died IMHO but I'm wondering if the charge might be less seeing as he didn't choke to death. Cocaine use for example might have been a factor.

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Kidchameleon...... do you think George Floyd would have died that day if not for the actions of police?

And what possible relevance has his criminal history got to do with anything? Why are you bringing it up?

As I have already said, it has no relevance and as I have also already said, it is interesting (at least to me)