George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Stateofyou

Bambi wrote: »

Take a seat lol, no thanks

Ever since I heard someone point out that the zealot contingent dont deal in conversations, what they mean by "conversation" is shut up and be lectured, I'm constantly amazed at how often it is true


Classic example here. Although I can see why, most of this guff doesnt stand up to scrutiny, hence the screaming of "raciiiissm" to avoid any counterpoints

Mad, mad stuff

First of all, I wasn't talking to you but clearly you like to go around being offended by everything. Because you have the classic issue like some with taking on board anything others are saying as being "lectured at" or being told what to do especially when what you spout doesn't stand up to scrutiny. What a brilliant way to go about life, refusing to learn or grow outside anything of your own experience. Contrary to your own hang-ups, racism is a real issue and scrutiny around it is necessary.

Guy:Incognito

https://twitter.com/theLOGICALman/status/1267384142112501761

Mick McGraw

There clearly needs to be a root and branch overhaul in how police are recruited and trained in the USA.Being a police officer should be viewed as being a job close to being a social worker but it seems like it's viewed more like being in the Army in the USA.I'd say a lot of the people that join the police in the USA are exactly the last type of people who should be dealing with the public.

Fleetwoodmac

LuasSimon wrote: »

What about the Israelis killing of Palestinians on a regular basis , the most heavily armed army in the world shot dead a 32 year old autistic man on Saturday ??

The Israelis have been training US police departments across several states for many years. The form of restraint used on George Floyd is one of the Israeli army's specialities.

DrPhilG

The question of cause of death is being missed a bit I think.

The coroner says he didn't asphyxiate. That's not really surprising. If Chauvin had been cutting off his airway or blood circulation then he wouldn't have been able to speak like he did. He wouldn't have been able to cry for help, for his mother, or to state that he couldn't breathe.

However that doesn't mean that Chauvin didn't kill him. He may not have completely cut off the blood or air supply, but he certainly restricted it and that will lead to hypoxia. In a man with Floyd's medical history, that can certainly lead to cardiac arrest.

All the report states is that he wasn't choked to death. It doesn't mean that he wasn't choked to the point that he had a heart attack.

Plus regardless of what impact Chauvin's abuse had on Floyd, the fact that he was apparently unconscious and without a pulse but Chauvin still refused to release him for 2 more minutes means that the murder charge is warranted and the manslaughter charge is a done deal.

Floyd had no pulse yet he refused to release him, never mind administer CPR.

walshb

DrPhilG wrote: »

The question of cause of death is being missed a bit I think.

The coroner says he didn't asphyxiate. That's not really surprising. If Chauvin had been cutting off his airway or blood circulation then he wouldn't have been able to speak like he did. He wouldn't have been able to cry for help, for his mother, or to state that he couldn't breathe.

However that doesn't mean that Chauvin didn't kill him. He may not have completely cut off the blood or air supply, but he certainly restricted it and that will lead to hypoxia. In a man with Floyd's medical history, that can certainly lead to cardiac arrest.

All the report states is that he wasn't choked to death. It doesn't mean that he wasn't choked to the point that he had a heart attack.

Plus regardless of what impact Chauvin's abuse had on Floyd, the fact that he was apparently unconscious and without a pulse but Chauvin still refused to release him for 2 more minutes means that the murder charge is warranted and the manslaughter charge is a done deal.

Floyd had no pulse yet he refused to release him, never mind administer CPR.

Yes

Even if it cannot be proved and shown that Chauvin was directly responsible for George's death, his actions alone, and the manner in which he carried out his actions cannot go unchallenged here....

silverharp

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Today I learned the police and national guard are "the left".

I hope you didn't get that from me? I was thinking more in terms of Antifa sabotaging BLM and democrats burning and looting areas where democrats live

Lundstram

bloodless_coup wrote: »

It's funny when you see the videos and it's 70% blacks doing the looting and beating and destruction yet there's a tendency to focus in on and blame white males.

How does that work?

Selective sight. People afraid of condemning the looting and violence of black people because their afraid of being labelled a racist.

A few on Twitter posted something similar to your post and were rammed with viscious accusations in their replies.

Similar in a way to the recent LGBT movement here, if you're not supporting it, you're a homophobe. As a bisexual man myself, I found it almost patronising in a way. I hate the term 'sheeple' but it's a good way to describe some people's attitude to the situation in America right now. Jadon Sancho yesterday a great example, play to the gallery.

Guy:Incognito

https://twitter.com/meggie_gates/status/1267264952026517505

Guy:Incognito

This is a good snapshot of the militarisation of US police and where priorities are.

https://twitter.com/DuBarryPie/status/1266945735074840577

ExMachina1000

Watching a news clip. People on top of each other. Many without masks including police.

Coronavirus will be the real winner here. Seems to have been forgotten

Hurrache

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

This is a good snapshot of the militarisation of US police and where priorities are.

https://twitter.com/DuBarryPie/status/1266945735074840577

Read something years ago about how their military had an over supply of so much equipment and vehicles that the police forces could pick them up for practically nothing, which they did.

Guy:Incognito

Few dropped water bottles after the police charge. No sign of smashed up buildings, nothing on fire.

But im sure we'll be told it was because they cursed at the police or something.:rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/drivenbyboredom/status/1267263490009546753

Guy:Incognito

Lundstram wrote: »

Selective sight.y.

?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Anything? Or are you just conveniently not seeing my replies to you?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yeah, the marching group of police at 10 secs are terribly afraid of their safety when confronted by that woman.

Again, at 14secs, what threat is that woman posing to all those police.

What threat is a woman talking to police with her hands out at 23secs that warrant being hit from behind, by a ****ing horse, a walked over?

Ill keep going if you want.

Any answer to to relevance of the court system to the George Floyd killing btw? Hes on the group cuffed with 3 cops on him. Whats the court system got to do with that?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Actually, **** it, I will keep going.

30 secs in, peopel are picking someone up, what are they doing to need pepper spraying?

at 38 secs, what are the people standing to the side doing to warrant the cop car doing a drive by pepper spraying?

at 45 seconds, whats the guy doing to get pushed once? Then why the need to continue after him on to the path t shove him again? Is that police tactics? To go in to a crowd alone to shove someone again.

At one minute, what is the woman walking away from the police, with her back to them, doing to warrant pepper spraying?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ive asked you numerous times what the court system has to do with what happened to him in the videos where he was killed and you ignore them.

BTW, how come Chauvins' previous record of infractions isnt brought up by the people "just looking for facts" that think previous records are relevant to what happened?

Any reply to my individual breaking down to the incidents in the video. I only got as far as 1 min in so far but i can keep going if you want.

silverharp

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Few dropped water bottles after the police charge. No sign of smashed up buildings, nothing on fire.

But im sure we'll be told it was because they cursed at the police or something.:rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/drivenbyboredom/status/1267263490009546753

its basically a spectator sport where audience participation is encouraged

Retr0gamer

DrPhilG wrote: »

The question of cause of death is being missed a bit I think.

The coroner says he didn't asphyxiate. That's not really surprising. If Chauvin had been cutting off his airway or blood circulation then he wouldn't have been able to speak like he did. He wouldn't have been able to cry for help, for his mother, or to state that he couldn't breathe.

However that doesn't mean that Chauvin didn't kill him. He may not have completely cut off the blood or air supply, but he certainly restricted it and that will lead to hypoxia. In a man with Floyd's medical history, that can certainly lead to cardiac arrest.

All the report states is that he wasn't choked to death. It doesn't mean that he wasn't choked to the point that he had a heart attack.

Plus regardless of what impact Chauvin's abuse had on Floyd, the fact that he was apparently unconscious and without a pulse but Chauvin still refused to release him for 2 more minutes means that the murder charge is warranted and the manslaughter charge is a done deal.

Floyd had no pulse yet he refused to release him, never mind administer CPR.

The way he was treated with pressure being put on the carthoid like that could very likely have caused a clot that could have went to the brain.

Carfacemandog

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Few dropped water bottles after the police charge. No sign of smashed up buildings, nothing on fire.

But im sure we'll be told it was because they cursed at the police or something.:rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/drivenbyboredom/status/1267263490009546753

And this, right here, is the major difference between the anti lockdown protests and these ones. Right from the start the police were looking to use force here, while in the anti lockdown protests they went out of their way not to. Almost like they treat two groups of people entirely differently depending in who is in them and what they are protesting against.

If Ammon Bundy were a black man holding a stand for minority rights he and all that stood with him would have been shot to pieces. Of course he wasn't so he got much better treatment instead.

Guy:Incognito

Whats the budget for the entire Gardai does anyone know?

The LAPD get $3b , they have 9,000 officers going by Google.


https://twitter.com/KellyDiamond_/status/1267258111246528513





The US Military budget is currently $721b, again, priorities.

BluePlanet

silverharp wrote: »

Republican gun owners chillin at home watching the left eat each other I guess. :pac:

And there it is.
The whack POV of US tribal politics.

This whole explosion on the streets isn't about police brutality against people of color. No, it's about MY tribal political affiliation scoring points on THEM ones.
:rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

Carfacemandog wrote: »

And this, right here, is the major difference between the anti lockdown protests and these ones..

Not the only protest they are showing is different. Women walking down the road with shopping bags are fair game for pepper spray and rubber bullets now, only a month ago, others are allowed scream in the face of police during a pandemic without issue......

https://twitter.com/qasimabasir/status/1266957424394563592

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

First of all, I wasn't talking to you but clearly you like to go around being offended by everything. Because you have the classic issue like some with taking on board anything others are saying as being "lectured at" or being told what to do especially when what you spout doesn't stand up to scrutiny. What a brilliant way to go about life, refusing to learn or grow outside anything of your own experience. Contrary to your own hang-ups, racism is a real issue and scrutiny around it is necessary.

I still get a chuckle from you telling anyone else they get offended by everything.

Such a case of the pot calling the kettle bla.... Oh wait.... Calling the kettle a kettle of colour.

StinkyMunkey

News teams targeted, emboldened by Trump, seems he is only allowed free speech.

Peaceful protesters targeted by police, emboldened by Trump, seems their right to peaceful protest doesn't apply, only to trump supporters with AR 15's.

Democratic leaders undermined by Trump in a country that's needs unity by its leaders.

A president which promotes violence against unarmed civilians, this is adding to the problem not trying to solve it.

In a country that is supposed to be a bastion of democracy you a an autocratic leader picking and choosing who democracy applies to.

silverharp

BluePlanet wrote: »

And there it is.
The whack POV of US tribal politics.

This whole explosion on the streets isn't about police brutality against people of color. No, it's about MY tribal political affiliation scoring points on THEM ones.
:rolleyes:

it was the trigger, but its summer, people have been pent up for months, they don't have work to go to, you would have to admit there is a fair amount of larping going on

average hero

Apologies for the long post but here are my thoughts on everything so far. I don't claim to be any expert but I am trying to offer a holistic account of things from my viewpoint.

Firstly RIP to George Floyd and prayers for his family. It is horrible that this has happened.

My analysis of the situation as it stands is that while people are protesting George Floyd's death, it is being significantly exacerbated by the 50-odd million of Americans who are out of work with little prospect of returning soon and few social security safety nets. The Covid-19 situation is disproportionally hitting the working classes.The place was a tinderbox waiting to go off.

The protesters need to protest peacefully. I saw the protests occur here and in Europe peacefully. American protesters need to do the same. Any damage done affects their cause, their credibility and ultimately their voice/goal.

To gain a bigger picture of everything, it is similar to the Hong Kong riots where there are allegations of other countries fanning the flames there. China and Russia are rubbing their hands with glee at the situation in the US. The subtle way that RT was reporting on it would nearly make you sick insofar as it was trying to be clever with 'impartial reporting' on it but exposing every flaw in the country, the government and the protesters. Brings you back to the information/media war in Europe during the 70s/80s...

Back on point - is there a racism problem in America? Yes. This is evidenced by the white supremacy groups that are in existence there and the unbelievably disgusting shooting of the black runner recently by the white men. I forget the name of the victim. May he RIP too.

I do however think it is a slightly different problem than simply race. It is social class. While there are Asian and Latin gangs, violence and issues in America, there doesn't seem to be as much problem here than with the black community. Racism has a part to play in this however I think social class is also the issue. For example, it is not Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey, Ben Carson or Michael Jordan this is happening too (however I am sure they suffered racism too).

Social class comes into the perpetrators too. If I am to use a stereotype, it is gun-wielding, white working class males who generally do not hold a third-level degree or have an upwardly mobile job. Give them a badge, power and a gun after 12 weeks and you have a bad situation there.

To be clear, I think that policeman who knelt on GF's neck is a dick. There wasn't a need for that. I worked in security and know that wasn't required to subdue an already handcuffed man. Do I think he meant to murder him? No. He had a gun - there would have been quicker and easier ways to do that. I think he was on a power-trip, wanted to put on pain-compliance and act like the 'big fella'.

What are the solutions?

America needs a social security, education and healthcare system that is similar to Europe to look after it's citizens. Only then will it quell the protesters frustrations which have been coming out so much recently. They look at Europe and ask why they can't have first world benefits. These benefits would help the working class groups and communities thrive, further reducing crime and the tinderbox element in the US.

Police over there need to be trained in judo, brazilian jiu-jitsu or grappling better to ensure they know the risks or what they are doing.

The protesters need to reduce the violence, looting and bad activity that ultimately is harming their cause. China and Russia are watching and using this to their adantage similar to the Hong Kong protests the other way around...

ChikiChiki

Why is Trump not unifying and addressing the nation. Absolute coward.

My own thought is that he is happy that to let this deflect from the Epstein documentary and latest anonymous papers release.

bloodless_coup

Are we going to have to suffer Guy:Incognito quoting several of his own posts every second page?

You can stop, your posts are not that interesting.

sydthebeat

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Why is Trump not unifying and addressing the nation. Absolute coward.

.

Trump has absolutely no moral authority to do so.

His words actually incite violence and he dogs whistles the racists

joe40

walshb wrote: »

This is a societal problem in general across all areas of life

People refusing to accept responsibility for their own actions. Happens everywhere.

Yes, police have to accept responsibility for the brutality some of their members inflict. Politicians have to accept responsibility for inciting hatred and pursuing policies that ensure inequality and a massive rich poor divide.
There is a lot of responsibility to go around.
America needs to get it's race issues sorted, it is an open sore in American society that has never healed and therefore destined to erupt every few years.
Yes there are scumbags using this simply for violence and looting. That is terrible and unjustified.
But until the wider issues are tackled this will keep happening.
We saw it in our own country, in our own history.

A major problem is the macho attitude of the police, as the old saying goes "if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail"

Lundstram

bloodless_coup wrote: »

Are we going to have to suffer Guy:Incognito quoting several of his own posts every second page?

You can stop, your posts are not that interesting.

Report it. Five times he's done that now.

Quoting his own posts and dumping random Twitter posts with no explanation is killing this thread.

walshb

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Why is Trump not unifying and addressing the nation. Absolute coward.

I think we all know why

The man thrives on hostility and division.....an absolute menace he is.

America is truly fooked up...really is bad. And worse and worse every time that man is there.