George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

walshb

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You said you didn't say he was resisting arrest. A quote was showing you did.

You then claimed you meant it as a question .


Very convenient that one very significant line is all that you made a mistake in phrasing.

I did mean it as a question......

I do not know that he resisted arrest. I have no reason at all to say he did, and no reason to say so to mislead....that is lying. I left out a question mark. Shoot me....it was not deliberate. It was an unintentional omission on my part. I meant to put a question mark.

The man's death shocked me. Very sad to see....It appears from the videos that he was not resisting, or at least not to any level that one could deem that the police needed to be very heavy handed.

I'll wait for all the facts on this...

Sonics2k

I am just truly baffled by anyone who can defend the cops involved in this situation.

Manslaughter, murder, it doesn't matter. The cop killed this man by suffocation and had no real cause to do so.

Sean.3516

seamus wrote: »

The US is such a mess.

Between this and the woman who called the cops claiming a black guy was threatening her, it's clear that their racism problem hasn't gone away and is in fact getting worse.

The USA is literally the worst country to be a racist in. You’re instantly ostracised from polite society (and rightfully so). This actually isn’t true in the vast majority of countries including Ireland.

What’s happened is that the few instances of racism that will inevitably exist in a country of 350,000,000 people have been magnified to the point where people believe things are worse than they really are. There is no systemic mistreatment of blacks in America. Blacks aren’t over policed and are not disproportionately likely to be shot when you account for the crime rates among each demographic.

Also, in this particular case, there is no evidence that this cop was a racist. The fact that he was white and his victim black is purely circumstantial in a country where the cops are disproportionately white and criminals are disproportionately black.

KiKi III

walshb wrote: »

From what I have read and seen I think the man was not resisting arrest....but there are levels to this.....what is resisting? It's not all that clear cut. What is resisting to me may be different to others....

Hence the need for a proper investigation.

That is why ALL the details and evidence need considering.

Looks pretty clear cut.

BorneTobyWilde

It was murder, a deliberate act. The cop had countless chances to let him live, pleads from Floyd, pleads from the bystanders, he refused to listen, and kept suffocating him until he died. He was handcuffed, and on his stomach. He was no danger to anyone, least not multiple armed copped.
Cop needs to get life, sad for him, but he done it, and done it deliberately .

Guy:Incognito

walshb wrote: »

.

I'll wait for all the facts on this...

But you're not doing that. You're spending quite a bit of time insinuating and trying to put doubts in peoples mind about the reasons he ended up on the ground, handcuffed behind the back with a cop kneeling on his neck to somehow justify him dying after 10 minutes if that.

Even if the cops had seen him murdering someone, once he was on the ground with his hands cuffed behind his back , in the presence of 4 cops, he's not doing anything to them. He could have put his knee on his back if he really needed to do anything.

Why not put him in the car if he was a danger? What was the purpose of kneeling on his neck and what was the endgame? Stay there for weeks till a court date?

Sean.3516

A Consonant Please Carol wrote: »

Dirty racist scumbags. It's systematic in American police forces. Same in the UK for many years. That's not to say there's police in the UK and US that aren't racist.

How do you know these were “dirty racist scumbags”? Have you met them?

MeMen2_MoRi_

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Well said Brendan.

Let’s gather the facts and ALL evidence before crucifying men who were doing their job.
Floyd was involved in forgery and didn’t end up On the ground for no reason, that much is established

Yeah exactly.. can you tell me why George Floyd was crucified to death for over 7 minutes with a knee being placed on his neck while he was face down and in handcuffs with 3/4 cops in attendance?

wandererz

This stuff happens all the time and forever.

I was at a traffic lights once, in a rental car (Red Mustang).
Cop stopped me shortly thereafter saying that i was doing something with regards to "exhibition of speed".
i.e i was revving the car at the traffic lights.

He fined me.

It was an automatic!! for pete's sake. No reason at all to be revving it.
I couldn't take off any faster, could not "beat" anyone else and there was nobody else at that traffic light.

It was also at 8.30am after an entire night of driving to get to where i was and after waking up to get to a family event.
550 miles of driving with no problems whatsoever only to be stopped by a redneck cop on a phoney charge.

Did not stop him though from coming up with something to fine the coloured guy!

PyreOfHellfire

Sean.3516 wrote: »

How do you know these were “dirty racist scumbags”? Have you met them?

You're starting to get very defensive. Why are you so sensitive to the word racist?

Guy:Incognito

walshb wrote: »

.
. Very sad to see....It appears from the videos that he was not resisting,

See "it appears he wasn't resisting"

I bet if he was resisting arrest on the video it wouldn't be "he appears to be resisting " it'd be , he resisted

brendanwalsh

Floyd was a suspected criminal.

What happened between him sitting against the wall and him being on the ground under the knee is not yet revealed but if it was malice on the cops part those security camera footage would have been released


Interesting the security footage didn’t release anything past Floyd sitting against the wall .

Likely Floyd resisted arrest or tried to escape or attack a cop.

The facts here are not fully established.
Let’s not trial the cops by media just yet and give them the benefit of the doubt until the facts are clear

Suspected criminal suffers during contested arrest with cops doing their job. It also seems Floyd did not die until a few hours later when in hospital . Maybe he died from a Pre existing condition - atrial fibrillation, heart failure, copd etc

Sean.3516

Sonics2k wrote: »

I am just truly baffled by anyone who can defend the cops involved in this situation.

Manslaughter, murder, it doesn't matter. The cop killed this man by suffocation and had no real cause to do so.

I wasn’t defending the cops.

I’m just pointing out that people are going out over their skiis when callin this an intentional “execution”. Yes people are calling it that. And this was not a racist killing according to all available information.

I get that we all like to feel virtuous going online and typing “he should go to jail for murder”, “dirty redneck cops”, “hope he goes to hell”. Why don’t we just try and stick to the facts?

BorneTobyWilde

Sean.3516 wrote: »

How do you know these were “dirty racist scumbags”? Have you met them?

Doesn't matter, even if it was a white man they murdered. Simple fact is a cop kneed a guy in the neck with his full weight until he died. That is not a standard move, it's not a move we've seen before, it was such a deliberate act, a knee to the side of the neck for 10 minutes is certain death. Surely a trained cop knows this, so he killed him, passed it off as resisting. But the tape is clear.

Happyilylost

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

But you're not doing that. You're spending quite a bit of time insinuating and trying to put doubts in peoples mind about the reasons he ended up on the ground, handcuffed behind the back with a cop kneeling on his neck to somehow justify him dying after 10 minutes if that.

Even if the cops had seen him murdering someone, once he was on the ground with his hands cuffed behind his back , in the presence of 4 cops, he's not doing anything to them. He could have put his knee on his back if he really needed to do anything.

Why not put him in the car if he was a danger? What was the purpose of kneeling on his neck and what was the endgame? Stay there for weeks till a court date?

I've put in bold the most important part.

Watching the video again on a computer screen rather than my phone it looks like there was an initial attempt to put him into the police car. The door was opened but then closed after they fell to the ground. Looking at his walk (from 5.10 on wards in the video) his feet do seem to start lagging almost to the point where it looks like the officers are forcing him forward as they reach the car. Then they fall.

wandererz

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Floyd was a suspected criminal.

What happened between him sitting against the wall and him being on the ground under the knee is not yet revealed but if it was malice on the cops part those security camera footage would have been released


Interesting the security footage didn’t release anything past Floyd sitting against the wall .

Likely Floyd resisted arrest or tried to escape or attack a cop.

The facts here are not fully established.
Let’s not trial the cops by media just yet and give them the benefit of the doubt until the facts are clear

Suspected criminal suffers during contested arrest with cops doing their job. It also seems Floyd did not die until a few hours later when in hospital . Maybe he died from a Pre existing condition - atrial fibrillation, heart failure, copd etc

Do a bit more research. There is loads more video on YouTube from different angles and different times.

bennyineire

Sean.3516 wrote: »

The USA is literally the worst country to be a racist in. You’re instantly ostracised from polite society (and rightfully so). This actually isn’t true in the vast majority of countries including Ireland.

What’s happened is that the few instances of racism that will inevitably exist in a country of 350,000,000 people have been magnified to the point where people believe things are worse than they really are. There is no systemic mistreatment of blacks in America. Blacks aren’t over policed and are not disproportionately likely to be shot when you account for the crime rates among each demographic.

Also, in this particular case, there is no evidence that this cop was a racist. The fact that he was white and his victim black is purely circumstantial in a country where the cops are disproportionately white and criminals are disproportionately black.

Have you ever been to the US and spent some time over there ?

I have/did and I can tell you from my experience the country is rife with racism, on all sides I must add

A Consonant Please Carol

Sean.3516 wrote:

What’s happened is that the few instances of racism that will inevitably exist in a country of 350,000,000 people have been magnified to the point where people believe things are worse than they really are. There is no systemic mistreatment of blacks in America. Blacks aren’t over policed and are not disproportionately likely to be shot when you account for the crime rates among each demographic.

How do you explain this rubbish? Did you ever consider the "crime" rates in a demographic correspond with a sustained focus on black people by police?

Sean.3516

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

It was murder, a deliberate act. The cop had countless chances to let him live, pleads from Floyd, pleads from the bystanders, he refused to listen, and kept suffocating him until he died. He was handcuffed, and on his stomach. He was no danger to anyone, least not multiple armed copped.
Cop needs to get life, sad for him, but he done it, and done it deliberately .

Nope. Not murder.

Yes, he deliberately knelt on the guy’s neck. That doesn’t mean he deliberately killed him.

He was trying to restrain the guy but did it in the worst possible way because he’s an incompetent police officer and ended up killing him. Murder has to be premeditated. There has to be a “mens rea”.

2u2me

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I wasn’t defending the cops.

I’m just pointing out that people are going out over their skiis when callin this an intentional “execution”. Yes people are calling it that. And this was not a racist killing according to all available information.

I get that we all like to feel virtuous going online and typing “he should go to jail for murder”, “dirty redneck cops”, “hope he goes to hell”. Why don’t we just try and stick to the facts?

I posted up a clip previously of Don Lemon on CNN trying to stoke the racist angle too while interviewing the family. The family were not stoking this line and I think they chose their words very carefully.

Fair play to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-W8WXK5DY

flazio

Didn't something like this happen in New York not all that long ago?

Happyilylost

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Floyd was a suspected criminal.

What happened between him sitting against the wall and him being on the ground under the knee is not yet revealed but if it was malice on the cops part those security camera footage would have been released


Interesting the security footage didn’t release anything past Floyd sitting against the wall .

Likely Floyd resisted arrest or tried to escape or attack a cop.

The facts here are not fully established.
Let’s not trial the cops by media just yet and give them the benefit of the doubt until the facts are clear

Suspected criminal suffers during contested arrest with cops doing their job. It also seems Floyd did not die until a few hours later when in hospital . Maybe he died from a Pre existing condition - atrial fibrillation, heart failure, copd etc

Unedited footage was posted a few pages back. It shows from him sitting against the wall to being led to the police car. Other than maybe the last few seconds it seems very clear cut.

RocketRaccoon

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Floyd was a suspected criminal.

What happened between him sitting against the wall and him being on the ground under the knee is not yet revealed but if it was malice on the cops part those security camera footage would have been released


Interesting the security footage didn’t release anything past Floyd sitting against the wall .

Likely Floyd resisted arrest or tried to escape or attack a cop.

The facts here are not fully established.
Let’s not trial the cops by media just yet and give them the benefit of the doubt until the facts are clear

Suspected criminal suffers during contested arrest with cops doing their job. It also seems Floyd did not die until a few hours later when in hospital . Maybe he died from a Pre existing condition - atrial fibrillation, heart failure, copd etc

I wonder have you ever been called a racist before because its clear as day you want these cops to get away with this.

Sonics2k

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I wasn’t defending the cops.

I’m just pointing out that people are going out over their skiis when callin this an intentional “execution”. Yes people are calling it that. And this was not a racist killing according to all available information.

I get that we all like to feel virtuous going online and typing “he should go to jail for murder”, “dirty redneck cops”, “hope he goes to hell”. Why don’t we just try and stick to the facts?

You can quote me all you want, but I have stuck to facts.

No matter how you view this, the officer in question killed a man was fully restrained by 3 people. He held pressure on his neck for over 9 minutes while the man called for help and said he couldn't breathe.

Whether the cop is racist or not doesn't matter. He killed a man who was no threat to him at that time.

Outlaw Pete

Idiot POS, hope he gets life. It's what's needed in the States as otherwise there will just be more of these deaths. Reminds me of the Tony Timpa killing in Dallas a few years back where Timpa was pleading with cops to let him up as many of them just made jokes. He died shortly afterwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utVvDu-K3Qg

RocketRaccoon

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Idiot POS, hope he gets life. It's what's needed in the States as otherwise there will just be more of these deaths. Reminds me of the Tony Timpa killing in Dallas a few years back where Timpa was pleading with cops to let him up as many of the cops just made jokes. He died shortly afterwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utVvDu-K3Qg

Oh but that was his own fault, or maybe he died of another condition. May aswell get those ridiculous replies out of the way ASAP.

Sean.3516

A Consonant Please Carol wrote: »

How do you explain this rubbish? Did you ever consider the "crime" rates in a demographic correspond with a sustained focus on black people by police?

Historically and sociologically illiterate comment. Crime rates in the US had been plummeting since the late 80s as a direct result of increased policing. They’ve been increasing in the last decade thanks to less policing. Crime is not a reaction to policing. Crime is the result of a failure to inculcate societal virtue. In the US, this is mainly the result of the rates of single motherhood among minority communities (which was incentivised by welfare from the 60s onwards.) Inner city crime in the United States was non-existent relative to today before the 60s.

I’d recommend reading “The Rise and a Fall of Violent Crime in America” by Barry Latzer.

2u2me

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Idiot POS, hope he gets life. It's what's needed in the States as otherwise there will just be more of these deaths.

If they can't train their officers properly they at least need to deter them from doing something similar. +1

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

Ok, so what is the definition of a lie?

It's not that difficult to google it....

There was no intention on my part to utter a falsehood to mislead anyone...

As it stands, nobody knows yet if the person resisted arrest. That will be established only by an investigation....

I’m sorry: is that a question? :rolleyes:

MeMen2_MoRi_

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Floyd was a suspected criminal.

What happened between him sitting against the wall and him being on the ground under the knee is not yet revealed but if it was malice on the cops part those security camera footage would have been released


Interesting the security footage didn’t release anything past Floyd sitting against the wall .

Likely Floyd resisted arrest or tried to escape or attack a cop.

The facts here are not fully established.
Let’s not trial the cops by media just yet and give them the benefit of the doubt until the facts are clear

Suspected criminal suffers during contested arrest with cops doing their job. It also seems Floyd did not die until a few hours later when in hospital . Maybe he died from a Pre existing condition - atrial fibrillation, heart failure, copd etc

Dead by the time paramedics arrived