George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

A Consonant Please Carol

Sean.3516 wrote:

Historically and sociologically illiterate comment. Crime rates in the US had been plummeting since the late 80s as a direct result of increased policing. They’ve been increasing in the last decade thanks to less policing. Crime is not a reaction to policing. Crime is the result of a failure to inculcate societal virtue. In the US, this is mainly the result of the rates of single motherhood among minority communities (which was incentivised by welfare from the 60s onwards.) Inner city crime in the United States was non-existent relative to today before the 60s.

Ah right, so avoid answering the question by waffling yet more rubbish.

walshb

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

See "it appears he wasn't resisting"

I bet if he was resisting arrest on the video it wouldn't be "he appears to be resisting " it'd be , he resisted

Exactly why I would wait until all the details surface.

This is not just about video footage...

But here, even if some form of resist was encountered during this tragedy, the final few minutes need not have happened. The man could still be here with us..

Overheal

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Idiot POS, hope he gets life. It's what's needed in the States as otherwise there will just be more of these deaths. Reminds me of the Tony Timpa killing in Dallas a few years back where Timpa was pleading with cops to let him up as many of them just made jokes. He died shortly afterwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utVvDu-K3Qg

Much like the Arbery case this won’t involve the death penalty.

BorneTobyWilde

Most police go their entire careers without even pulling a gun. Derek Chauvin who killed George Floyd, has been involved in three prior shootings, and has had countless complaints made against him. Looks like karma has caught up to him.

walshb

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Most police go their entire careers without even pulling a gun. Derek Chauvin who killed George Floyd, has been involved in three prior shootings, and has had countless complaints made against him. Looks like karma has caught up to him.

Most police where exactly?

A **** load in the States will have to show or threaten to use their guns..

RocketRaccoon

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Most police go their entire careers without even pulling a gun. Derek Chauvin who killed George Floyd, has been involved in three prior shootings, and has had countless complaints made against him. Looks like karma has caught up to him.

Just wait til they bring up location. It's definitely going to be asked.

This scumbag was clearly bullied in school and is now taking it out on citizens in America.

Outlaw Pete

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Oh but that was his own fault, or maybe he died of another condition. May aswell get those ridiculous replies out of the way ASAP.

Best to ignore those kind of replies. Not worth the energy.

Sure some even said that the Daniel Shaver killing was his own fault even though the guy was unarmed, crawling on the ground while begging for his life. How a jury didn't find that cop guilty of at least reckless manslaughter I'll never understand.

Sean.3516

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Doesn't matter, even if it was a white man they murdered.

So are you seriously telling me that this cop would still be a racist if it was a white person he killed? Lad, we would never have heard about this if not for the colour of the victim.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Simple fact is a cop kneed a guy in the neck with his full weight until he died. That is not a standard move, it's not a move we've seen before, it was such a deliberate act, a knee to the side of the neck for 10 minutes is certain death. Surely a trained cop knows this, so he killed him, passed it off as resisting. But the tape is clear.

As I’ve said before, I agree that he intentionally put his knee on the guy in a way that was wholly inappropriate. This doesn’t mean that he intentionally killed the guy. It’s highly unlikely that the cop tackled the guy to ground thinking “I’m gonna put my neck on this guy and slowly choke him to death even though there’s people recording me two metres away.” Therefore this isn’t murder. It’s manslaughter.

Also I wouldn’t assume that this guy was well trained. Every cop or ex cop I’ve heard commenting on this says the kneeing move speaks to incompetence and bad training.

RocketRaccoon

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Just wait til they bring up location. It's definitely going to be asked.

This scumbag was clearly bullied in school and is now taking it out on citizens in America.

I was just going to post that.
Reason is a lot of bullied youth go on to be security, cops etc.
To get that power back to bully others.

Sean.3516

bennyineire wrote: »

Have you ever been to the US and spent some time over there ?

I have/did and I can tell you from my experience the country is rife with racism, on all sides I must add

Your anecdotal experience is statistically irrelevant.

begbysback

nthclare wrote: »

Sounds a bit harsh, they could have restrained him with a batton or just a tazer...
Shot him in the foot or something...

No doubt it's fcking awful, he shouldn't have died full stop.

And a dog with a mallet up his hole knows that you don't kneel on someone's neck ffs.
Whatever he was arrested for, a knee on the neck was typical of a power hungry and adrenaline junky fuelled with a selfish agenda.

I'd rather a bullet in the shoulder than someone choking me to death tbh

Police forces around the world have been known to use excessive force in apprehending & arresting suspects, usually, as you noted, fueled by adrenaline. The best prevention of this in recent times has been the introduction of cameras on mobile phones. Unfortunately though only the ones which result in fatalities are highlighted, so you can imagine how many are not reported, or if they are reported then are subsequently dismissed.

If this wasn’t recorded then there’s little doubt that some imaginary story would have been made up.

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

Most police where exactly?

A **** load in the States will have to show or threaten to use their guns..

Stop assuming.


https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-look-at-police-officers-who-have-fired-their-weapon-on-duty/

Sean.3516

PyreOfHellfire wrote: »

You're starting to get very defensive. Why are you so sensitive to the word racist?

Because it’s one of the worst, most heinous charges you can bring against someone.

If you call someone a racist without evidence, this would make you a bad person.

Overheal

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Your anecdotal experience is statistically irrelevant.

Where are your stats?

begbysback

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

I was just going to post that.
Reason is a lot of bullied youth go on to be security, cops etc.
To get that power back to bully others.

I don’t really believe this, most people have been bullied to some degree early in their lives. With these roles there is a certain level of authority that one needs to display in order to carry out the necessary tasks that the role requires. imo it’s usually adrenaline that contributes to the excessiveness, and some guys can’t control themselves when they get an adrenaline rush.

BorneTobyWilde

walshb wrote: »

Most police where exactly?

A **** load in the States will have to show or threaten to use their guns..

USA, it's not common to pull guns on people. The percent that pull them or fire them is very low. This cop who killed Floyd thinks he's Dirty Harry considering his track record of gun use and behaviour. Department records show that he has been involved in several police shootings over his career, with lots of complaints against him.
Tou Thao the other cop lost a lawsuit case against him in 2017, for brutal force against a citizen, Thao stopped and searched him without any cause.
Thao handcuffed him, and then threw him to the ground and began punching him in the face.The case settled out of court for $25,000
These guys are dirty cops.

Its about time the law caught up with them.

Sean.3516

A Consonant Please Carol wrote: »

Ah right, so avoid answering the question by waffling yet more rubbish.

You’re the one who raised the point that crime among a particular community seemed to be proportionate to the rate at which that community is policed, thereby implying that overpolicing may be the reason that blacks are more likely to be arrested and shot.

I explained to you why that theory was complete rubbish and even provided you with a source and now you call it waffle because you’ve realised you don’t have the knowledge to have this discussion.

Bye bye.

BorneTobyWilde

Sean.3516 wrote: »

This doesn’t mean that he intentionally killed the guy.

Eh he was told by people looking on '' you're killing him, he can't breathe'' Floyd '' this is kill, I can't breathe'' was his final words
But cop continued, that was a choice, to continue until he died. That's intentional.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXvBjCO19QY

Sean.3516

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Eh he was told by people looking on '' you're killing him, he can't breathe'' Floyd '' this is kill, I can't breathe'' was his final words
But cop continued, that was a choice, to continue until he died. That's intentional.

No it isn't.

None of that proves that he intentionally killed Floyd. It proves he's an incompetent jackass who should go to jail for manslaughter presumably but not for murder. Murder has to be premeditated. You have to prove he put his knee on him with the explicit intent of killing him rather than restraining him so he could be arrested.

ohnonotgmail

Sean.3516 wrote: »

No it isn't.

None of that proves that he intentionally killed Floyd. It proves he's an incompetent jackass who should go to jail for manslaughter presumably but not for murder. Murder has to be premeditated. You have to prove he put his knee on him with the explicit intent of killing him rather than restraining him so he could be arrested.

you dont have to prove that he PUT his knee on him with the intention of killing. it is sufficient to show that he KEPT his knee there with the intention of killing him.

Mitch Connor

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you dont have to prove that he PUT his knee on him with the intention of killing. it is sufficient to show that he KEPT his knee there with the intention of killing him.

even if there was no intent to kill, there was absolutely no care to ensuring he didn't die.

Sean.3516

Overheal wrote: »

Where are your stats?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

Sean.3516

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you dont have to prove that he PUT his knee on him with the intention of killing. it is sufficient to show that he KEPT his knee there with the intention of killing him.

Why?

Again, why would you intentionally kill someone in full view of a crowd of people recording you? He was trying to keep him subdued in the most incompetent possible way and ended up killing him. That's manslaughter not murder for the umpteenth time.

Sean.3516

Mitch Connor wrote: »

even if there was no intent to kill, there was absolutely no care to ensuring he didn't die.

Exactly. That's why manslaughter is the most appropriate charge for something like this.

talla10

seamus wrote: »

A police officer killing a citizen is automatically a breach of the most fundamental purpose of their role. It should be assumed to be a failure in policing until is it proven that it was necessary and unavoidable.

So you're saying any Police Officer, Garda or otherwise, should be assumed Guilty before being proved innocent?

In any incident of this nature an investigation will take place and it would be of vital importance for the investigators to keep an open mind and not 'assume' anything.

And I'm speaking generally not on this specific case

Greentopia

CrankyHaus wrote: »

God no, not remotely. In general it's a positive thing for employment rights here but for Gardaí it was close to immunity for wrongdoing, at least until Commisioner Harris began to introduce some semblance of professional accountability.

Yes, at least things seem to be moving in the right direction under his command: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/is-drew-harris-making-necessary-change-or-making-garda%C3%AD-paranoid-and-confused-1.4010284

circadian

Sean.3516 wrote: »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

That's 7 years old. The rise in fascist and racist organisations OPENLY protesting in the USA these last few years would indicate that this data is out of date.

Podge_irl

Sean.3516 wrote: »

As I’ve said before, I agree that he intentionally put his knee on the guy in a way that was wholly inappropriate. This doesn’t mean that he intentionally killed the guy. It’s highly unlikely that the cop tackled the guy to ground thinking “I’m gonna put my neck on this guy and slowly choke him to death even though there’s people recording me two metres away.” Therefore this isn’t murder. It’s manslaughter.

New York penal code wrote:

A person is guilty of murder in the second degree when:

2. Under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life, he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another person, and thereby causes the death of another person;

He does not need to have intended to kill him for it to be murder.

ohnonotgmail

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Why?

Again, why would you intentionally kill someone in full view of a crowd of people recording you? He was trying to keep him subdued in the most incompetent possible way and ended up killing him. That's manslaughter not murder for the umpteenth time.

some people think they can get away with it. they think the law doesnt apply to them