George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

BonnieSituation

Peregrinus wrote: »

To be fair, it may also be targetted at appealing to moderate black political leadership, a signficant section of which also tends to be religiously-motivated or inspired, and who are generally dismayed by rioting and looting.

(Though, as the post immediately before me suggests, it may not succeed in this.)

I agree that that is feasible... But it isn't his MO and I can't see black religious leaders buying it especially seeing as the way he got to the church was to violently disperse peaceful protesters.

I've been watching CBSN and CNN all day and the media had started to turn against the protests ever so slightly with the tone of their reportage but it seems that this has just reignited it further and will hard another 2 days to the story and have the main outlets inside.

Also, I can't praise the level of coverage on CBSN enough. I've been flitting through each city's local CBS news station so we're getting different views from all over the country from LA to Philly to Pittsburgh to Boston to Minneapolis and Dallas and much more in between.

BonnieSituation

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Well here's a source saying something similar;

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1267612338691211267

We'll now be told that they're CNN shills and not to be trusted.

dwayneshintzy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

We'll now be told that they're CNN shills and not to be trusted.

Ah of course. I do realise that very often, the only reason a souce is sought is so it can be discredited. Your question was a good one, though; why else would Trump have staged the photo op?


It's obvious he didn't clear it with the diocese, as they're very upset about it and have strongly condemned his actions.

bb12

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Well here's a source saying something similar;

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1267612338691211267

dunno why trump was angered at people finding out he was taken to the bunker. normal procedure when the white house is under threat. and by the images shown last night, what went on outside the white house was completely out of control. anybody who thought there wouldn't be a strong response after that fiasco must be very dumb. you can't have people throwing molotov cocktails outside the seat of government without any fear of reprisals.

do you think the gardai would stand idly by if people went nuts outside leo's residence? look at what they did to the shannon protestors.

plus all those protestors complaining about being moved on in washington tonight knew there was a curfew setting in at 7pm and they were still outside protesting 10 mins before. they had no intention of dispersing.

BonnieSituation

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Ah of course. I do realise that very often, the only reason a souce is sought is so it can be discredited. Your question was a good one, though; why else would Trump have staged the photo op?

Exactly. I don't care if it was true or even had a source but based on EVERYTHING we know about him, I just assumed that that was why it happened. I didn't even think to seek confirmation of my thoughts. It's exactly why it happened because y'know, Trump.

It's obvious he didn't clear it with the diocese, as they're very upset about it and have strongly condemned his actions.

And in pure Trump fashion he's mucked it up.

I'm liking CNN's approach now, they're not even trying to sugar coat anything anymore. That banner screaming "PHOTO OP" was exactly what was required.

Flickerfusion

Flickerfusion wrote: »

From an Irish or generally a European perspective in 2020, it's bizarre and rather overly religious. Depending on which audience you're talking about in the US, that could be perceived very differently and seen as a positive, particularly by evangelicals who are part of Trumps target market.

Ive spent time over there and I've experienced what you call overly religious, which was considered the norm. The stereotypical evangelical that you see on TV are relatively common. Among all Christian denominations.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

saw a few twitter posts earlier agreeing with destroying a christian (presumed protestant) church and the same users condemning protestors trying to attack a synagogue , these looting and riots have a hell of a lot of double standards.

Can you post these tweets because I find it very unlikely that you saw such posts (separate and displaying conflicting viewpoints) from the same users in the flood of posts on Twitter about this topic unless you already follow the posters.

Because, if you can't post them, it seems like more of Trump's type blase statements of 'Many people say' or 'I've heard' while offering no proof of whatever claim he is making.

I'm very conflicted...

I've a meeting in 7 hours time, but also, I want to see New York's reaction to curfew in 80 minutes time.

BonnieSituation

bb12 wrote: »

dunno why trump was angered at people finding out he was taken to the bunker. normal procedure when the white house is under threat.

Normally yes, but it was deafening silence for a week before that.

The lights being turned out didn't help the visual statement either.

Trump can't even say he got a negative result in a test without messing it up in dear of people thinking that negative in this sense was a "bad thing".

And by the images shown last night, what went on outside the white house was completely out of control. anybody who thought there wouldn't be a strong response after that fiasco must be very dumb. you can't have people throwing molotov cocktails outside the seat of government without any fear of reprisals.

Again correct but then tonight during a peaceful protest in the same place the protesters still got gassed and shot at. So what do you do when different actions receive the same response?

do you think the gardai would stand idly by if people went nuts outside leo's residence? look at what they did to the shannon protestors.

And they shouldn't. Same with what happened in Tallaght and Burton.

plus all those protestors complaining about being moved on in washington tonight knew there was a curfew setting in at 7pm and they were still outside protesting 10 mins before. they had no intention of dispersing.

Part of the protest is to ignore the curfew naturally. Once they're peaceful while doing so the authorities don't mind. There is video all evening of protestors, post curfew in DC and LA being corralled into different areas. The police are doing it well in those cases and it remained non violent.

But then they go and spoil it all...

Flickerfusion

Deleted User wrote: »

Ive spent time over there and I've experienced what you call overly religious, which was considered the norm. The stereotypical evangelical that you see on TV are relatively common. Among all Christian denominations.

You'd be quite taken aback by it.

I was once asked to say grace at a dinner table and when I explained I wouldn't know where to start, not being religious I was greeted to a stunned silence and then the Irish-American host went on a rather weird rant at me about how I obviously wasn't 'real Irish' and then started off on a lecture about 'how would you know right from wrong if you don't believe in God'.

Thanked them for dinner, got up and left as I felt about as welcome as a bad smell. Got some perfuse apology trying to convince me to stay, but I really wasn't in the mood. You don't insult someone you've invited for dinner and expect them to just hang around. Didn't bother getting in touch with them ever again.

It can be great, but it can also be a bit like Ireland circa about 1950 on some of those topics and I'm not even convinced Ireland was ever that pious, more oppressed by the powers that were.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm very conflicted...

I've a meeting in 7 hours time, but also, I want to see New York's reaction to curfew in 80 minutes time.

Go to bed. They're won't be any reaction.

Tell me how

Flickerfusion wrote: »

You'd be quite taken aback by it.

I was once asked to say grace at a dinner table and when I explained I wouldn't know where to start, not being religious I was greeted to a stunned silence and then the Irish-American host went on a rather weird rant at me about how I obviously wasn't 'real Irish' and then started off on a lecture about 'how would you know right from wrong if you don't believe in God'.

Thanked them for dinner, got up and left as I felt about as welcome as a bad smell. Got some perfuse apology trying to convince me to stay, but I really wasn't in the mood. You don't insult someone you've invited for dinner and expect them to just hang around. Didn't bother getting in touch with them ever again.

Really? I mean really, really?

I'm living in the US and have met some very devout Christians but none of them have expressed any strong desire to see me proclaim my faith. That a host who saw fit to have you as a guest in their house would to do this seems very odd.

Flickerfusion

Tell me how wrote: »

Really? I mean really, really?

I'm living in the US and have met some very devout Christians but none of them have expressed any strong desire to see me proclaim my faith. That a host who saw fit to have you as a guest in their house would to do this seems very odd.

I got a fairly insulting lecturing about my lack of "irishness" (by which he meant catholicism) by someone who was basically an utter ignoramus who considered himself Irish, due to having a connection to Mayo or something from a couple of generations back, while I'm the one fecking born in Ireland with the Irish accent, the Irish address, passport, citizenship, can speak Irish, place of birth etc etc

Just felt extremely uncomfortable and unwelcome.

Genuinely one of the most awkward and insulting experiences I've ever had.

Although, I also managed to have an in-law (a husband of an aunt) (also in the US) tell me that I'm "worse than any Englishman" because I didn't got to mass.

Some of the Irish-American community seem to be hardcore right wing catholics in a way I don't think I've ever encountered in Ireland, certainly not in modern times anyway.

Flickerfusion

Flickerfusion wrote: »

You'd be quite taken aback by it.

I was once asked to say grace at a dinner table and when I explained I wouldn't know where to start, not being religious I was greeted to a stunned silence and then the Irish-American host went on a rather weird rant at me about how I obviously wasn't 'real Irish' and then started off on a lecture about 'how would you know right from wrong if you don't believe in God'.

Thanked them for dinner, got up and left as I felt about as welcome as a bad smell. Got some perfuse apology trying to convince me to stay, but I really wasn't in the mood. You don't insult someone you've invited for dinner and expect them to just hang around. Didn't bother getting in touch with them ever again.

It can be great, but it can also be a bit like Ireland circa about 1950 on some of those topics.

You are preaching to the converted here. Ba-dum-tish!

Ive seen similar things. We never said grace at home but we did in school and I know Robert Burns Selkirk Grace if necessary. Anyway, yes I've witnessed similar devoutness at times. Not to mention general ignorance of Ireland and Europe by seemingly educated, well to-do people.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Really? I mean really, really?

I'm living in the US and have met some very devout Christians but none of them have expressed any strong desire to see me proclaim my faith. That a host who saw fit to have you as a guest in their house would to do this seems very odd.

Where in the US are you?

I have seen this in Georgia and Maryland.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Go to bed. They're won't be any reaction.

There will be a reaction.

It just may not be broadcast til morning or later.

BonnieSituation

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm very conflicted...

I've a meeting in 7 hours time, but also, I want to see New York's reaction to curfew in 80 minutes time.

Ah, you can hide on a Zoom meeting. I've been conflicted for 3 nights straight. It's just compelling watching it live in different cities via CBSN.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Deleted User wrote: »

There will be a reaction.

It just may not be broadcast til morning or later.

No reactions in the other states who have curfews.

Madeleine Birchfield

Flickerfusion wrote: »

I got a fairly insulting lecturing about my lack of "irishness" (by which he meant catholicism) by someone who was basically an utter ignoramus who considered himself Irish, due to having a connection to Mayo or something from a couple of generations back, while I'm the one fecking born in Ireland with the Irish accent, the Irish address, passport, citizenship, can speak Irish, place of birth etc etc

Just felt extremely uncomfortable and unwelcome.

Genuinely one of the most awkward and insulting experiences I've ever had.

Although, I also managed to have an in-law (also in the US) tell me that I'm "worse than any Englishman" because I didn't got to mass.

Some of the Irish-American community seem to be hardcore right wing catholics in a way I don't think I've ever encountered in Ireland, certainly not in modern times anyway.

Interestingly some of the same right wing Irish-American Catholics would support the IRA or Sinn Fein, both of which are fairly left-wing and secular, simply to show their support for Irish nationalism against the British/DUP because of their heritage.

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Ah, you can hide on a Zoom meeting. I've been conflicted for 3 nights straight. It's just compelling watching it live in different cities via CBSN.

I have a morbid curiosity about the fallout of himself's speech. If he wanted to cool things down he fumbled it. If he wanted to properly kick things off, good job!

Just found out I've Infowars on my tv..

Probably makes for more reasonable coverage than CNN at the minute..

BonnieSituation

Flickerfusion wrote: »

I got a fairly insulting lecturing about my lack of "irishness" (by which he meant catholicism) by someone who was basically an utter ignoramus who considered himself Irish, due to having a connection to Mayo or something from a couple of generations back, while I'm the one fecking born in Ireland with the Irish accent, the Irish address, passport, citizenship, can speak Irish, place of birth etc etc

Just felt extremely uncomfortable and unwelcome.

Genuinely one of the most awkward and insulting experiences I've ever had.

Although, I also managed to have an in-law (a husband of an aunt) (also in the US) tell me that I'm "worse than any Englishman" because I didn't got to mass.

Some of the Irish-American community seem to be hardcore right wing catholics in a way I don't think I've ever encountered in Ireland, certainly not in modern times anyway.

I'm incredibly interested in the cultural aspects of religion and how they have shaped secular cultures, eg. Turkey v France or how we are determined to climb out of the shadow of the Catholic church. But whenever a discussion strays into the "faith" part I unequivocally explain that it's off limits as I'm irritatingly irreligious outside of bestowed cultural Catholic and COI norms and that's how I like it.

Happened a couple of times in North Carolina to me and in Ottawa of all places, but never had a "dinner experience" like yourself I must say.

I was very careful with my exes deeply devout father but that is the height of it I guess.

"Some of the Irish-American community seem to be hardcore right wing catholics in a way I don't think I've ever encountered in Ireland, certainly not in modern times anyway."

That sums up a certain branch and certain generation of my extended family.

Flickerfusion

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

Interestingly some of the same right wing Irish-American Catholics would support the IRA or Sinn Fein, both of which are fairly left-wing and secular, simply to show their support for Irish nationalism against the British/DUP because of their heritage.

Yeah there’s an element of that. It’s a parallel universe though and I think it’s something to bear in mind, especially when you see Irish Americans on the Trump side of politics, which can be a bit jarring to some people over here.

You also get people who are just stuck in a bit of a time warped view of Ireland based on a snapshot of when they or their parents (or even grandparents) last lived here. That’s not unusual with anyone who emigrated from anywhere to anywhere though.

You’ll of course also get the progressive Irish American Kennedy ish Democrat types too, but it’s very important to understand that Irish America isn’t a simple political bloc and also it can be way off on very different trajectories to contemporary Ireland.

BonnieSituation

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

No reactions in the other states who have curfews.

But New York's is a lot later than other cities'.

Denver for example is 9pm (4am here) and NY is 11pm (4am). So it will be different.

It's bright in Denver still!

---

EDIT: Huge rally in Oakland right now. Curfew at 8PM (4am)

BonnieSituation

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have a morbid curiosity about the fallout of himself's speech. If he wanted to cool things down he fumbled it. If he wanted to properly kick things off, good job!

Aye. Same. The speech and the church could not have gone worse. Well, it's Trump, it could have.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

No reactions in the other states who have curfews.

New Yorkers are a different breed.

Telling the city that never sleeps to go to bed?

Hmm.

Jesus Christ..On CBS there..car dealerships were cleaned out..
Like, every car in the shop robbed..

BonnieSituation

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Yeah there’s an element of that. It’s a parallel universe though and I think it’s something to bear in mind, especially when you see Irish Americans on the Trump side of politics, which can be a bit jarring to some people over here.

You also get people who are just stuck in a bit of a time warped view of Ireland based on a snapshot of when they or their parents (or even grandparents) last lived here. That’s not unusual with anyone who emigrated from anywhere to anywhere though.

You’ll of course also get the progressive Irish American Kennedy ish Democrat types too, but it’s very important to understand that Irish America isn’t a simple political bloc and also it can be way off on very different trajectories to contemporary Ireland.

When it comes to social issues it is not an homogenous bloc but it is when it comes to Irish issues and it's an easily rallied caucus.

Flickerfusion

BonnieSituation wrote: »

When it comes to social issues it is not an homogenous bloc but it is when it comes to Irish issues and it's an easily rallied caucus.

Yup. They’re all Irish as the East River dyed green or a misty field in Connemara, be they right wing/left wing, religious/agnostics/atheists, straight/gay, particularly on any issue that involves Ireland and “the Brits” - Brexiteers, suggesting any aspect of Ireland be thrown under the bus, be warned!