George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Limpy

The victim's funeral is not till June 9th. The protests will keep going. It will become a popular protest, you'll see another million man march.

Celebs will attend the funeral. After that who knows where it goes. People are angry and bored from the covid lockdown, seems like a bad mix.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure "forced to convince" is the right phrase.

This is very similar to the "MeToo" stuff. On one side you have people who are unaffected by these issues - me and presumably you - who've been privileged enough to be born where and when we were and haven't had to encounter bigotry against us in any real sense.
We also don't see bigotry against others. We don't hang around with people who assault women, who racially abuse others, who outwardly diplay their bigotry.
So when black people or women tell us what the reality is, we're a bit incredulous. It feels like they're telling you the world is something entirely different than we think it is.

And in those circumstances it's very easy to think that it can't be a case that you've missed this behaviour. You think it's a small issue, that's why you haven't seen it. Or it occurs in very isolated pockets. Or at the extreme end you assume this is an organised mass gaslighting, and the people claiming bigotry and sexual assault are lying and overblowing the whole thing.

From the perspective of women or black people when you say, "I haven't seen evidence of the things you're saying", you look like a crazy person. This is a daily occurence for them. An ingrained part of how they live their lives. They moderate their behaviour to avoid the abuse. And we're telling them we don't see it. They find that incredulous for the same reason we do; we're telling them the world from our perspective is something else entirely.

It is beholden on the privileged like ourselves to merely look and listen. Watch what's happening, look at the data, understand why people are angry and don't assume you're being blamed.
On those who suffer from this systemic abuse, they equally need to understand that just because someone may be privileged, doesn't mean they're knowingly propping up the abuse, or even ignoring it. If someone says, "I don't see the things you're talking about", don't presume they're denying they exist or wilfully looking the other way.

All of us have to moderate our behaviour in different social situations. We all have anecdotes of being victims in one way or another. I think the only way we can ever get over racism is to stop constantly viewing everything through the prism of race.

You know the whole "content of your character" thing as a great man once said.

completedit

Has it not always been known that American cops are trigger happy and a bit unhinged? I remember an Irish guy on a j1 was shot dead years ago. Therefore, is the problem a police force which abuses it's power as opposed to a strict race issue. Is the fact that black people are a minority the reason why this is perceived as a racist issue. I'm not so sure. I spent a summer in a college town and ended up in jail, I saw how the cops acted there for minor discretions. I don't know about the black experience in the US and the figures seem to suggest they suffer from negative outcomes but maybe this is to do with suffering from already existing structures that go back centuries and without a transfer of wealth, how can that be fixed? More black people aren't in jail because America is racist, more black people are in jail because they have less opportunity which is the result of age old racism.

Limpy

vladmydad wrote: »

Yep some of the biggest nastiest bully’s I’ve ever worked with. There’s also a huge problem with them bullying Irish kids at school. A teacher told me it’s a nightmare, principles terrified to suspend them. They use the race card to get their way. But we can’t talk about that.

These bullies you speak of are second generation, AKA Irish.

There was no mix races or other in my school growing up but there was still plenty of bullies. These bullies still got to finish school. So the problem is with the system and how things are reported.

Carfacemandog

Trumps number 1 fan / US House representative Matt Gaetz is now calling for anyone who is against fascism to be "hunted down". Thankfully twitter deleted it.



You have to wonder if you went back 10 or 20 years and told these Trump followers that they would be ardent supporters of fascism come 2020, how they would react or feel about if.

vladmydad

vladmydad wrote: »

Yep some of the biggest nastiest bully’s I’ve ever worked with. There’s also a huge problem with them bullying Irish kids at school. A teacher told me it’s a nightmare, principles terrified to suspend them. They use the race card to get their way. But we can’t talk about that.

It seems in small enough numbers they are fine. The problems seem to start when they reach a stage of forming groups. I feel very sad for any Irish kids being bullied. At school. For being Irish. In Ireland.

paw patrol

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I would love to know what all the people earlier in the thread who insisted they should just protest peacefully and all would be grand, think about them protesting peacefully by a church in Washington last night and getting tear gassed and rubber bullets shot at them so Trump could have a photo op.

the church protest wasn't peaceful. The church was set on fire ffs.
what planet do you live on?

completedit

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It seems in small enough numbers they are fine. The problems seem to start when they reach a stage of forming groups. I feel very sad for any Irish kids being bullied. At school. For being Irish. In Ireland.

This is clearly what happens. And clearly an us Vs them culture emerges. People are strange. It takes two to tango.

ohnonotgmail

paw patrol wrote: »

the church protest wasn't peaceful. The church was set on fire ffs.
what planet do you live on?

do you think trump turned up just after the fire was put out? people protesting peacefully were cleared with tear gas and baton rounds so trump could walk to the church.

paw patrol

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Trumps number 1 fan / US House representative Matt Gaetz is now calling for anyone who is against fascism to be "hunted down". Thankfully twitter deleted it.



You have to wonder if you went back 10 or 20 years and told these Trump followers that they would be ardent supporters of fascism come 2020, how they would react or feel about if.

anyone who is against fascism

nope he called for antifa to be hunted - it's not the same - and Antifa should be hammered for their antics.

I dont think I encountered your username before and the few posts from you today are just lies...
you are an odd sort.

Carfacemandog

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Trumps number 1 fan / US House representative Matt Gaetz is now calling for anyone who is against fascism to be "hunted down". Thankfully twitter deleted it.



You have to wonder if you went back 10 or 20 years and told these Trump followers that they would be ardent supporters of fascism come 2020, how they would react or feel about if.

LOL. "anyone who is against fascism" is a very different population than "Antifa".

Nice job at muddying the waters between two though.

dwayneshintzy

Deleted User wrote: »

It seems in small enough numbers they are fine. The problems seem to start when they reach a stage of forming groups. I feel very sad for any Irish kids being bullied. At school. For being Irish. In Ireland.

In small numbers who are fine?

Black people?

Carfacemandog

paw patrol wrote: »

nope he called for antifa to be hunted - it's not the same - and Antifa should be hammered for their antics.

I dont think I encountered your username before and the few posts from you today are just lies...
you are an odd sort.

Antifa is not a group, it is an ideology means "anti fascist". You would be as well to claim all anti liberal people should be hunted down because of the actions of neo nazis, or all Muslims should be because of ISIS.

I really don't care if you've seen my username before, but at least try to back up your claim of 'lies' on my posts.

RIGOLO

vladmydad wrote: »

Yep some of the biggest nastiest bully’s I’ve ever worked with. There’s also a huge problem with them bullying Irish kids at school. A teacher told me it’s a nightmare, principles terrified to suspend them. They use the race card to get their way. But we can’t talk about that.

Another one , off to college with you for your re-education.

The CAO will be busy next year, too many people are starting to grasp the nettle and talk about things that have been ignored for years and years. This has to stop.

There is only one viewpoint when it comes to race issues, it is all ONE-WAY traffic. A black person has never in the history of history played the race card, ALL actions taken by a white person in interaction with a black person where the white person did not adhere to the black persons wishes are race crimes.


Michael D. needs to write a new poem. Fintan O'Toole needs to write a new piece in the Irish Times. I just hope we can survive until the weekend when teh radio shows will be full of liberal lefties spouting their nonsense.

completedit

completedit wrote: »

This is clearly what happens. And clearly an us Vs them culture emerges. People are strange. It takes two to tango.

It really saddens me. To think that their parents would have arrived to Ireland and been given food and shelter at taxpayers expense (including probably the bullied kids' parents who would have paid taxes). The genie is out of the bottle now though, hey ho......

seamus

paw patrol wrote: »

nope he called for antifa to be hunted - it's not the same - and Antifa should be hammered for their antics.

I dont think I encountered your username before and the few posts from you today are just lies...
you are an odd sort.

Antifa doesn't exist. There is no organised group called Antifa.

Antifa is an ideology, not a group that can be attacked.

The reason that Trump has called for antifa to be hunted is so that anyone determined to be unAmerican can be labelled "Antifa" and jailed or whatever. Just like they did in the 50s and 60s when anyone who dared to speak out against the US was called a communist and an enemy of the state.

Penn

RIGOLO wrote: »

Another one , off to college with you for your re-education.

The CAO will be busy next year, too many people are starting to grasp the nettle and talk about things that have been ignored for years and years. This has to stop.

There is only one viewpoint when it comes to race issues, it is all ONE-WAY traffic. A black person has never in the history of history played the race card, ALL actions taken by a white person in interaction with a black person where the white person did not adhere to the black persons wishes are race crimes.


Michael D. needs to write a new poem. Fintan O'Toole needs to write a new piece in the Irish Times. I just hope we can survive until the weekend when teh radio shows will be full of liberal lefties spouting their nonsense.

What the sh*teing f*ck are you talkin about?

Carfacemandog

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL. "anyone who is against fascism" is a very different population than "Antifa".

Nice job at muddying the waters between two though.

Antifa movements have been going since they opposed Hitler and Mussolini because its an ideology. Funny, and pathetic, that a few on here would have sided with Adolf and Benito but not unexpected.

paw patrol

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do you think trump turned up just after the fire was put out? people protesting peacefully were cleared with tear gas and baton rounds so trump could walk to the church.

so the protest was peaceful after the fire was put out?....right...:rolleyes:
I've seen videos of the white house protests they weren't peaceful - full of idiots trying to goad the secret service into violence.
Idiots. That crap just detracts from the real issue.

RIGOLO

RIGOLO wrote: »

obviously you didnt go to college and study racism.

If you had your eyes would only see white-supremists looting and all black protestors , yes protestors involved in peaceful song and dance.

I recommend you go back to college and attend a liberal indoctrination. Do it now before it becomes mandatory when the loony left takeover. Any college will do they are all the same sausage factorys, churning out the same expensively educated useful idiots.

Yeah would love to be "educated" at clown college. Bigotry 101 must be a laugh riot.

ohnonotgmail

paw patrol wrote: »

so the protest was peaceful after the fire was put out?....right...:rolleyes:
I've seen videos of the white house protests they weren't peaceful - full of idiots trying to goad the secret service into violence.
Idiots. That crap just detracts from the real issue.

i imagine chronology is not one of your strong points so no point discussing it with you

dwayneshintzy

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

In small numbers who are fine?

Black people?

If I say yes then i am a racist.
If I say no then I am also a racist.

BluePlanet

Deleted User wrote: »

All racial groups behave the same in every circumstance? I think that is not accurate, feel free to disagree.

My observation is that of all the news footage of looters in america that i've ever seen, some racial groups are vastly overrepresented, some are underrepresented.

Yes they do.
Because "race" and 'racial identity' is a social construct, not a biological one.
http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

paw patrol

seamus wrote: »

Antifa doesn't exist. There is no organised group called Antifa.

Antifa is an ideology, not a group that can be attacked.

The reason that Trump has called for antifa to be hunted is so that anyone determined to be unAmerican can be labelled "Antifa" and jailed or whatever. Just like they did in the 50s and 60s when anyone who dared to speak out against the US was called a communist and an enemy of the state.

so when i see something like Rose City
https://www.rosecityantifa.org/

who state this in the opening lines on their site....

Rose City Antifa (RCA) was founded in Portland, Oregon in October of 2007. RCA was formed after a coalition of local people and organizations formed the 'Ad-Hoc Coalition Against Racism and Fascism' in order to shut down a neo-Nazi skinhead festival called Hammerfest.

you're telling me the "ideology" not the group was founded in 2007....
the "ideology" was founded....

cos it reads to me , in their own words too....like its' a group or collation of groups.

help me out here..

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the only way we can ever get over racism is to stop constantly viewing everything through the prism of race.

That's a privilege you get only when people don't view you through the prism of race.

If walking past a police officer carried a high chance of you being stopped and questioned or searched because of the color of your skin, you'd think very differently about "getting over" racism.

This isn't one of the issues that can be fixed by everyone minding their own business.

Hurrache

paw patrol wrote: »

the church protest wasn't peaceful. The church was set on fire ffs.
what planet do you live on?

paw patrol wrote: »

so the protest was peaceful after the fire was put out?....right...:rolleyes:
I've seen videos of the white house protests they weren't peaceful - full of idiots trying to goad the secret service into violence.
Idiots. That crap just detracts from the real issue.

Time passes. Some things happen 1 day, other things happen other days.

Unfortunately we live on a planet on which we have no control of time, it's relentless.

cian68

owlbethere wrote: »

I'm tipping towards this stance myself.

The world has moved on a long time ago from the era of where black people were discriminated against and forced into slavery because of their skin colour.

Black people have been accepted in so many different communities and all across the globe. Long gone are the days where they were discriminated against because of their skin colour.

Do you really believe all this?

StackSteevens

RIGOLO wrote: »

obviously you didnt go to college and study racism.

If you had your eyes would only see white-supremists looting and all black protestors , yes protestors involved in peaceful song and dance.

I recommend you go back to college and attend a liberal indoctrination. Do it now before it becomes mandatory when the loony left takeover. Any college will do they are all the same sausage factorys, churning out the same expensively educated useful idiots.

You didn't by any chance happen to hear the frothing at the mouth African-American academic from San Fran who "Morning Ireland" managed to dig up this morning! Funniest interview I've heard for ages.

Well worth a listen on the RTE Player.

BluePlanet

BluePlanet wrote: »

Yes they do.
Because "race" and 'racial identity' is a social construct, not a biological one.
http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

The Olympic 100metres final, and NBA would seem to contradict that theory.

BluePlanet

If you look at someone's color of skin, and use that as a means to determine their behavior, yes you are and out and out racist.