George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

BluePlanet

CrankyHaus wrote: »

In Ireland?

You sure you're in the right thread?
This thread is discussing the George Floyd murder by police in USA and subsequent rioting.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Multiculturalism has never worked anywhere. Sad to say but true. I grew up believing in the ideals of the Benetton ads, a smiling utopia. Then I travelled and saw the world as it actually is.

I can't think of a single multicultural country in global history that hasn't been without serious ethnic or racial tension.

At what point do we just acknowledge reality?

I'd be inclined to agree with this.. they want multiculturalism with western liberal democracy that is secular with good roads, and a welfare state..
Taking out what is the culture essentially..
So that multiculturalism ends up being essentially a selection of different spicy food..

Carfacemandog

Tony EH wrote: »

We need to stop attributing political wings to these networks. They are just businesses that choose to deliver a product to a target audience in order to make money.

Actually, Roger Ailes who was an advisor of Nixon explicitly founded FOX News to indoctrinate the Republican voters so that if a Watergate situation (that forced Nixon to resign or be impeached by his own party, who in turn would have to vote him out or get voted out by their own constituents) occurred again, they would not turn on their president and would choose party over country. And it worked spectacularly, as the last few years have shown.

They had wanted it from even earlier in Nixons administration, which you can find in a memo Ailes wrote during nixons time in office called "A Plan For Putting the GOP on TV News".

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not the dumbest thing i've seen on boards but it is right up there.

Why? It is ascribing certain characteristics and assumptions to an entire race of people based on the colour of their skin. Is that only racist when it is against non-white people?

BluePlanet

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think there is a single person on here who denies this. The cop should be charged and should rot in jail for what he did. Let justice be done.

I think posters like myself take issue with the terms like systemic racism or white privilege which sound weighty and serious but which have no substance or basis in reality.

Facts:
this paper provides robust evidence that black male federal arrestees ultimately face longer prison terms than whites arrested for the same offenses with the same prior record
source: https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2413&context=articles

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Why? It is ascribing certain characteristics and assumptions to an entire race of people based on the colour of their skin. Is that only racist when it is against non-white people?

well done on doubling down on the stupidity.

completedit

Genuinely I'm not trying to be edgy but the protests, the social media blackouts, what about the atrocities that happen the world over everyday. Why is America exceptional? And it's it's because we are all connected to America in some way, maybe that enforces racist/supremacist because it infers some countries/cultures are more valuable than others.

I genuinely believe in equality and justice. I sympathize with the plight of the black community and the sad passing of George Floyd but let's be real, the world is a bad place. I don't see why we are more sympathetic to Americans over Yemenese.

BluePlanet

BluePlanet wrote: »

Potentially racist, sure.

White privilege is an observable phenomena.
Just look at the disparity in sentences of like crimes.
Blacks get sent to prison while Whites walk for the same.

I could say black people are privileged as well and back it up.

Physically stronger, faster etc. The evidence is as plain as day if you look at sports. But that would not be an acceptable thing to say, presumably?

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think there is a single person on here who denies this. The cop should be charged and should rot in jail for what he did. Let justice be done.

I think posters like myself take issue with the terms like systemic racism or white privilege which sound weighty and serious but which have no substance or basis in reality.

+100% agree with you here.
It's one bad cop. That's it.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

I could say black people are privileged as well and back it up.

Physically stronger, faster etc. The evidence is as plain as day if you look at sports. But that would not be an acceptable thing to say, presumably?

Yeah you're not allowed say that.

paw patrol

Carfacemandog wrote: »

You just proved yourself wrong - Rose City Antifa are a group, but are not all of Antifa, which is an ideology and not a group. Just like the National Conservative Political Action Committee (a group founded, in 1975) is all of conservatism, and conservatism (an ideology) indeed existed long before them as did anti fascism before Rose City Antifa, like this one from 1932 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion

i'm well aware they aren't all of antifa.
it reads to me that Antifa is a collection of cells or groups. to me that is a group.
like Christianity isn't one religion but a mix of similar...it's still a group (and a belief)

thanks for clarifying

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well done on doubling down on the stupidity.

Well done on the belittling ad hominem attack without actually addressing the point.

ELM327

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well done on doubling down on the stupidity.

Oh look, there you go with that word again.
Have you no more condescending synonyms to use?

Boggles

completedit wrote: »

Genuinely I'm not trying to be edgy but the protests, the social media blackouts, what about the atrocities that happen the world over everyday. Why is America exceptional? And it's it's because we are all connected to America in some way, maybe that enforces racist/supremacist because it infers some countries/cultures are more valuable than others.

I genuinely believe in equality and justice. I sympathize with the plight of the black community and the sad passing of George Floyd but let's be real, the world is a bad place. I don't see why we are more sympathetic to Americans over Yemenese.

Without looking it up.

Name the president of Yemen?

ElmoLaw

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think there is a single person on here who denies this. The cop should be charged and should rot in jail for what he did. Let justice be done.

I think posters like myself take issue with the terms like systemic racism or white privilege which sound weighty and serious but which have no substance or basis in reality.

just because something is not your reality doesnt meant it is not a reality for many people. why is that so hard to understand that people experience things that you yourself may not. if you are not a person of colour how could you understand what their experience is like. if you are not a member of the LGBTQ community how can you understand what it is like to have those experiences. why do you expect everyone to look at the world from your own viewpoint and expect that that is the reality we should all live with. and i am not saying this to you personally i am referring to all the posters on here who expect the world to accept the reality that the white majority give the world and if you dont undertand it is up to yourself to educate and inform yourself of these issues and try opening your eyes a little bit.

completedit

I get it for sure. I don't really know what am getting at, it just sits uneasy with me that we feed into the idea of America being the centre of the world and American struggles and ideals being more important. But equally, America has parallels to our society and shapes our society even. So probably makes sense. But all lives matter, not just western ones.

CrankyHaus

Boggles wrote: »

Name the president of Yemen?

That's a bit of a disputed point, given the civil war.

BluePlanet

Deleted User wrote: »

I could say black people are privileged as well and back it up.

Physically stronger, faster etc. The evidence is as plain as day if you look at sports. But that would not be an acceptable thing to say, presumably?

No it isn't.
Because within that greater genetic diversity that sees so many black athletes on our screens, there is an equal amount of obesity and other poor genetic traits that are off screen.
So no, such a generalization such as yours is wrong.

suicide_circus

lets not get into the advantages and disadvantages of racial genetics, it can go down an unfortunate road

Boggles

completedit wrote: »

I get it for sure. I don't really know what am getting at, it just sits uneasy with me that we feed into the idea of America being the centre of the world and American struggles and ideals being more important. But equally, America has parallels to our society and shapes our society even.

It's not just America though, it's all Western countries.

Something bad happens in France or New Zealand or Canada, other western countries feel it more acutely for the reasons you outlined.

A drone strike on a wedding in Pakistan on the off chance a person of interest is at it. Meh. That ain't trending, I ain't interested.

Boggles

CrankyHaus wrote: »

That's a bit of a disputed point, given the civil war.

True.

I suppose the answer is The King Of Saudi Arabia.

pjohnson

ELM327 wrote: »

Shh the SJW will be all over you for that
We have to pretend that Fred, Fatima, and Foluke are all the same.

Ah now why you dislike Hamilton so much makes sense! Got it.

ElmoLaw

ElmoLaw wrote: »

just because something is not your reality doesnt meant it is not a reality for many people. why is that so hard to understand that people experience things that you yourself may not. if you are not a person of colour how could you understand what their experience is like. if you are not a member of the LGBTQ community how can you understand what it is like to have those experiences. why do you expect everyone to look at the world from your own viewpoint and expect that that is the reality we should all live with. and i am not saying this to you personally i am referring to all the posters on here who expect the world to accept the reality that the white majority give the world and if you dont undertand it is up to yourself to educate and inform yourself of these issues and try opening your eyes a little bit.

The reason why I resist this is because by continually banging on about it you create a victim mentality which leads on to things like affirmative action and other discrimination that are considered necessary corrections, as opposed to what they actually are, namely forms of systemic racism.

BluePlanet

BluePlanet wrote: »

No it isn't.
Because within that greater genetic diversity that sees so many black athletes on our screens, there is an equal amount of obesity and other poor genetic traits that are off screen.
So no, such a generalization such as yours is wrong.

Same goes for white privilege.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

It's not just America though, it's all Western countries.

Something bad happens in France or New Zealand or Canada, other western countries feel it more acutely for the reasons you outlined.

A drone strike on a wedding in Pakistan on the off chance a person of interest is at it. Meh. That ain't trending, I ain't interested.

Apart from the whole worldwide empire thing, it's probably down to cultural similarity..
The Qataris are probably more aware of what happens in the UAE than Britain.. The Thais in Vietnam than Australia..

BluePlanet

Deleted User wrote: »

Same goes for white privilege.

Facts are Facts.
Fact is that whites receive more lenient sentences for the same crime.
That is systemic racism.

And that's only looking at one thing.
Shall we look at others?

Tasfasdf

BluePlanet wrote: »

Facts are Facts.
Fact is that whites receive more lenient sentences for the same crime.
That is systemic racism.

And that's only looking at one thing.
Shall we look at others?

Where are your facts to support this claim?

Carfacemandog

paw patrol wrote: »

i'm well aware they aren't all of antifa.
it reads to me that Antifa is a collection of cells or groups. to me that is a group.
like Christianity isn't one religion but a mix of similar...it's still a group (and a belief)

thanks for clarifying

No worries, though it is no more a 'collection of cells or groups' than conservatism, liberalism, feminism etc. The same would go for religion, where I would not blame nor link someone's mild mannered catholic granny for the horrible actions of Christian extremist terrorists in Africa or the US (and the same for Muslims, Hindus, etc).

What Matt Gaetz was calling for in that tweet was the same as saying all Christians should have been be "hunted down" due to the actions of people like Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph or the people murdering abortion doctors in the 90s (all were part of the Christian identity movement), that conservative people should be "hunted down" due to the litany of Trump supporter based attacks in recent years (Dylan Roof, El Paso, Stoneman Douglas school, Tree of Life synagogue, Poway synagogue, Charlottesville, and so on).

Individual groups that are causing large scale violence, terrorism etc should be dealt with I agree, but what trump and now Gaetz are calling for is legitimately dark and evil in a 1930s Germany type of way.

Carfacemandog

Tasfasdf wrote: »

Where are your facts to support this claim?

They have already linked to a University of Michigan law school report on the issue only a few posts back, maybe you should tackle the content of that?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113615877&postcount=3996

ThewhiteJesus

i'm still struggling with this, there is only one side crying racism here.
The cop has been charged with murder, he wasn't wearing a pillow case on his head or shouting racist remarks,
he just happened to be white and made a horrendous error of judgement, and the perp happened to be black.
This doesn't make it racist, just poor policing if it's proved it's 100% his fault as that's inconclusive at present.