George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Odhinn

Overheal wrote: »

How are you mortally afraid of a guy in handcuffs???

.......in handcuffs behind his back, lying face forward, surrounded by 4 cops.

Nermal

RWCNT wrote: »

"Cop defender" is the weirdest hobby, what do you get out of it?

Not like looting in that respect, is it?

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

Do black lives matter only march when a black man has been killed by cops, because a few days ago 10 people were shot dead in Chicago and a few dozen injured .

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/5/25/21268348/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-may-22-26

Pig ignorance is why this deflection comes up time and again.

We have a system for justly prosecuting murderers.

We don’t have a system for justly prosecuting murderer cops.

Odhinn

Rogerrabit wrote: »

The police officer was only doing what he was trained to do under those circumstances. He was doing his job.....

He wasn't, as training indicates that knee on the neck is only to be used in limited circumstances. Thats been established already.

CrankyHaus

Overheal wrote: »

Pig ignorance is why this deflection comes up time and again.

We have a system for justly prosecuting murderers.

We don’t have a system for justly prosecuting murderer cops.

We?

Are you living over in the states?

~Rebel~

Rogerrabit wrote: »

The police officer was only doing what he was trained to do under those circumstances. He was doing his job.....

Actually numerous cops have already come out and said that his behaviour was directly against training. First - obviously - that kneeling on someone's neck for 8 minutes until death is not part of their training. But also that cops are also first responders. If someone is hurt ro in danger, even if they are the cause, it is their first responsibility to ensure the safety and survival of that person. He gasped for air. He told them he couldn't breath. Derek kept his knee on the mans neck. And killed him.

Tell me how

Rogerrabit wrote: »

The police must have had good reason to pin him down on the ground in that fashion. He looks like a guy that could take care of himself. Maybe the police officer feared for his own life.

The whole reason that there are (now global) protests is that it is widely recognized (by everyone) including Trump that they did not have a good reason to pin him down like that.

And that doing so is a common and excessive practice used mostly on black men which has resulted in many of them dying.

Danzy

A man with an Asian wife, his Asian police partner, another white cop and a Hispanic American cop arrested a man, it was done roughly and he died.

That's been stretched to a scene from Mississippi burning.

American police are dangerous and stats show that is across the board.
Making this a racist incident is politically motivated and it's to fit the desired narrative

ElmoLaw

CrankyHaus wrote: »

We?

Are you living over in the states?

does it matter?

Overheal

ElmoLaw wrote: »

it would be a good idea to make your points with some composure rather then cursing at people. i would think the boards has some policies of how moderators should interact with forum participants regardless of if you are a moderator of this group or not.

None that ****ing say we can’t ****ing curse?

Danzy

Tell me how wrote: »

The whole reason that there are (now global) protests is that it is widely recognized (by everyone) including Trump that they did not have a good reason to pin him down like that.

And that doing so is a common and excessive practice used mostly on black men which has resulted in many of them dying.

The restraint was wrong and unjustified, it is used across all races and by all races in America.

That is their messed up police.

Some groups have more deaths due to massive over representation in serious crime, others like Asians have massive under representation due to little criminal activity in general.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

Oh well if they didn't burn it again the following day that's different.

As a matter of ****ing fact it is. Do you have proof the same people who burned it the night before were the ones assaulted by police at 7PM last night?

Saw a nice video of an Australian news crew getting the **** beat out of them there. It was peaceful one second and then the police charged like a band of animals.

~Rebel~

cdeb wrote: »

Yet you can't actually come up with a single cogent argument in response?

I've posted plenty on the subject, feel free to go back through my posts. It shouldn't be someone else's job to educate you on what systemic racism means. I would have hoped someone coming on to talk about it would take their time to try to understand what it is they're discussing.

By saying that we don't know that this case was specifically racist, and that all of this is actually racist action from the black community, it shows an inherent misunderstanding of what the problem is. That the treatment of black men is not the same as the treatment of white men.

You seem to be seeing this as "racist crimes are only committed by racist people", which is not the problem - the problem is that law enforcement structures themselves treat black men differently to white men. The in-built behaviour advised and encouraged by police departments treats black men differently to white men. For a cop to just follow orders, means to treat black men differently to white men. It's not personal racism, it's systemic racism.

cdeb

Overheal wrote: »

None that ****ing say we can’t ****ing curse?

I think you can see it was just a way of getting out of answering the question.

Now that the question has been posed in more delicate language for the poor sensitive mite, it's been ignored.

And I think it points to an issue where there's a stock list of answers at this issue which people regurgitate to end discussion (racism is a white problem, in this case), but which posters are simply unable to discuss at all (~Rebel~ is similar).

And it's really unhelpful, because they're the stock answers being churned out in the media and by activists and so on - and if they're simply wrong, then we've no hope of actually addressing the issue properly.

Overheal

cdeb wrote: »

Funnily enough, there are very few elite black swimmers.

I think there is a genuine correspondence between the bone structure that makes black people such good sprinters and yet means they're not great at swimming (again, at elite level). Certainly there have been studies into one of the more curious sporting anomalies.

That's not racist; that's just a fact of life.

Edit - in fact, I'll have to take that back. It seems googling it that swimming is more a social issue, so black people just don't tend to swim as much (a sweeping statement, but it has to be at this level of course), and so don't get to elite level. Though it is something which has been studied.

So tldr blacks aren’t better swimmers because of white privilege?

yourdeadwright

Ye know what makes me laugh half the people you see here doing black out Tuesday and what not, wouldn't even say hello if on this very day a traveller said hi to them ,

gary550

Overheal wrote: »

Pig ignorance is why this deflection comes up time and again.

We have a system for justly prosecuting murderers.

We don’t have a system for justly prosecuting murderer cops.

Are you an American citizen or domiciled in America? If not then I really do not understand why you are saying "we". As far as I was aware the police force in Ireland are unarmed and instances of people being killed at the hand of gardai are nearly non existent. Also there is no evidence to suggest that the Garda actively behave in discriminatory or racist behaviour????

Carfacemandog

Danzy wrote: »

A man with an Asian wife, his Asian police partner, another white cop and a Hispanic American cop arrested a man, it was done roughly and he died.

That's been stretched to a scene from Mississippi burning.

American police are dangerous and stats show that is across the board.
Making this a racist incident is politically motivated and it's to fit the desired narrative

I don't know this cops leanings or reasoning for murdering George Floyd, but to be clear here since you brought it up, are you saying if a white person is OK with Asians and Hispanics/Latinos but hates black people (also missing from your list above), that they are not racist?

BorneTobyWilde

What order will the Military Leaders refuse to take from Trump, that is the question, there will be a tipping point Shirley ? At what point will someone stand up and say '' that is an order I can't give to my troops''

cdeb

~Rebel~ wrote: »

You seem to be seeing this as "racist crimes are only committed by racist people", which is not the problem - the problem is that law enforcement structures themselves treat black men differently to white men. The in-built behaviour advised and encouraged by police departments treats black men differently to white men. For a cop to just follow orders, means to treat black men differently to white men. It's not personal racism, it's system racism.

I think that's in danger of becoming a truism.

Tony Timpa should point you away from that argument. Killed the exact same way as George Floyd. Except Tony was a white man.

Both horrible acts. But it points away from systemic racism, and towards a bigger issue of a badly trained and inept police force.

Overheal

Rogerrabit wrote: »

If he was not held down he could have headbutted the police officer etc........

So don’t stick your neck next to the guy.

There was no resistance from Floyd. This is wild whataboutism and it’s pathetic.

CrankyHaus

ElmoLaw wrote: »

does it matter?

Yes, this is an Irish discussion board.

Comment on issues abroad is generally from an Irish perspective. If I want it from an American perspective I have an abundance of places online to get it from.
Distance from the US allows these discussions to not get overly infected with American culture war chasms between people smearing the other side as "fascist racists" or "culturally marxist libtards".
IMO Americans dominating discussions on this site would be to its detriment.

Tell me how

Danzy wrote: »

A man with an Asian wife, his Asian police partner, another white cop and a Hispanic American cop arrested a man, it was done roughly and he died.

That's been stretched to a scene from Mississippi burning.

American police are dangerous and stats show that is across the board.
Making this a racist incident is politically motivated and it's to fit the desired narrative

Ignoring the prevalence of the use of excessive force against black men is politically motivated and it's to fit the desired narrative.

ElmoLaw

cdeb wrote: »

I think you can see it was just a way of getting out of answering the question.

Now that the question has been posed in more delicate language for the poor sensitive mite, it's been ignored.

And I think it points to an issue where there's a stock list of answers at this issue which people regurgitate to end discussion (racism is a white problem, in this case), but which posters are simply unable to discuss at all (~Rebel~ is similar).

And it's really unhelpful, because they're the stock answers being churned out in the media and by activists and so on - and if they're simply wrong, then we've no hope of actually addressing the issue properly.

i havent ignored it. but you are attacking me. so i dont think any further engagement with you at this point is productive.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

Autopsy report, details in the Guardian.

Not that excuses the rough handling.

No I need a link because there are 3 autopsies: county preliminary, independent, and final. The latter two conclude he died of HOMICIDE.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

As a matter of ****ing fact it is. Do you have proof the same people who burned it the night before were the ones assaulted by police at 7PM last night?

Saw a nice video of an Australian news crew getting the **** beat out of them there. It was peaceful one second and then the police charged like a band of animals.

I don't disagree that American cops are often nuts.

It's not good enough to hope they don't burn it and attack others again.

The other protest nights around that location were not peaceful.

ElmoLaw

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Yes, this is an Irish discussion board.

Comment on issues abroad is generally from an Irish perspective. If I want it from an American perspective I have an abundance of places online to get it from.
Distance from the US allows these discussions to not get overly infected with American culture war chasms between people smearing the other side as "fascist racists" or "culturally marxist libtards".
IMO Americans dominating discussions on this site would be to its detriment.

really so you just want to limit this to irish people. thats a bit of a one dimensional perspective isnt it.

Nermal

~Rebel~ wrote: »

The in-built behaviour advised and encouraged by police departments treats black men differently to white men.

Post this advice.

Overheal

Rogerrabit wrote: »

The police officer was only doing what he was trained to do under those circumstances. He was doing his job.....

That must be why they didn’t mention it in their police report and why the chief fired them immediately for gross misconduct

cdeb

ElmoLaw wrote: »

i havent ignored it. but you are attacking me. so i dont think any further engagement with you at this point is productive.

Lolz

Overheal wrote: »

So tldr blacks aren’t better swimmers because of white privilege?

I think they just don't like swimming as much.