George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Overheal

Odhinn wrote: »

.......in handcuffs behind his back, lying face forward, surrounded by 4 cops.

Yeah but black on black crime in Chicago bla bla bla

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

No I need a link because there are 3 autopsies: county preliminary, independent, and final. The latter two conclude he died of HOMICIDE.

cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/01/us/george-floyd-independent-autopsy/index.html

Overheal

CrankyHaus wrote: »

We?

Are you living over in the states?

Yes.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

The restraint was wrong and unjustified, it is used across all races and by all races in America.

That is their messed up police.

Some groups have more deaths due to massive over representation in serious crime, others like Asians have massive under representation due to little criminal activity in general.

No it’s literally not.

Minnesota is the only state that has any technique on the book involving the knee like this and it was performed improperly.

You are talking with an empty hand.

~Rebel~

cdeb wrote: »

I think that's in danger of becoming a truism.

Tony Timpa should point you away from that argument. Killed the exact same way as George Floyd. Except Tony was a white man.

Both horrible acts. But it points away from systemic racism, and towards a bigger issue of a badly trained and inept police force.

That's not a good argument - for this to mean something, you would have to be working in such definite terms, that we'd have left reality far behind.

Pointing to a white person being killed and saying "see, it's equal!" completely ignores the broader picture and only serves to obfuscate the argument. There's a reason that Tony Timpa's death did not set a country alight. George Floyd is the final straw. He is a more recent example of many many many.

There are badly trained and inept police AND there is system racism.

CrankyHaus

ElmoLaw wrote: »

really so you just want to limit this to irish people. thats a bit of a one dimensional perspective isnt it.

No, I just don't want it to be dominated or distorted by American opinions and outlooks, as can happen to nominally "Irish" subs on Reddit for instance. It's nice having a corner of the internet free from the American-centric media and culture war divisions blared at us 24/7 elsewhere and it would be a loss if posters from any other vast country began dominating discussions. Americans have all the rest of the internet to use.

Overheal

gary550 wrote: »

Are you an American citizen or domiciled in America? If not then I really do not understand why you are saying "we". As far as I was aware the police force in Ireland are unarmed and instances of people being killed at the hand of gardai are nearly non existent. Also there is no evidence to suggest that the Garda actively behave in discriminatory or racist behaviour????

Yes I am. Do I need to start wearing a tattoo on my forehead? I thought it was pretty clear from how I spoke. Thanks for being extra sure though

Foxtrol

Danzy wrote: »

I don't disagree that American cops are often nuts.

It's not good enough to hope they don't burn it and attack others again.

The other protest nights around that location were not peaceful.

Oh, we're now in favour of preemptive law enforcement now? Someone did a crime here yesterday, lets assault people with no warning today in case it happens again...

If they didn't want people protesting in the area they could have blocked off the street in advance. They did it this way to help Trump's poor injured ego after it came out that he ran and hid in a bunker despite having hundreds of armed men protecting him.

This is how people actually connected with church feel about Trump's actions last night

https://twitter.com/hthompson/status/1267823010322341888?s=20

Overheal

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Yes, this is an Irish discussion board.

Comment on issues abroad is generally from an Irish perspective. If I want it from an American perspective I have an abundance of places online to get it from.
Distance from the US allows these discussions to not get overly infected with American culture war chasms between people smearing the other side as "fascist racists" or "culturally marxist libtards".
IMO Americans dominating discussions on this site would be to its detriment.

Well you must be new here because there are hundreds of Americans on the site, thousands of Irish living in America on the site and you’re in a thread about an American topic.

Welcome! :rolleyes:

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

No it’s literally not.

Minnesota is the only state that has any technique on the book involving the knee like this and it was performed improperly.

You are talking with an empty hand.

Police in America use it, they should not but they do.

ElmoLaw

CrankyHaus wrote: »

No, I just don't want it to be dominated or distorted by American opinions and outlooks, as can happen to nominally "Irish" subs on Reddit for instance. It's nice having a corner of the internet free from the American-centric media and culture war divisions blared at us 24/7 elsewhere and it would be a loss if posters from any other vast country began dominating discussions. Americans have all the rest of the internet to use.

so start a thread that says IRISH PEOPLE ONLY and see how far that gets you

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/01/us/george-floyd-independent-autopsy/index.html

Looks to be gone.

Mick McGraw

Overheal wrote: »

Yes I am. Do I need to start wearing a tattoo on my forehead? I thought it was pretty clear from how I spoke. Thanks for being extra sure though

That strategy won't really be an effective identification method on an internet forum.

Nermal

Foxtrol wrote: »

Oh, we're now in favour of preemptive law enforcement now?

Where there is widespread civil disorder, rioting and looting - yes. Absolutely.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

Police in America use it, they should not but they do.

So you understand part of why people are protesting.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Overheal wrote: »

No it’s literally not.

Minnesota is the only state that has any technique on the book involving the knee like this and it was performed improperly.

You are talking with an empty hand.

It's on the book, but it's not trained with officers in the academy.. there's a post on thread with a link to a USA today article and an instructor says they don't train it.

Edit.. link

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/29/george-floyd-experts-say-neck-restraint-allowed-minneapolis-can-kill/5274334002/

CrankyHaus

Overheal wrote: »

W
Welcome! :rolleyes:

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Passive-agressive bitchiness like this is something you wouldn't get from most Irish people and it brings down the level of discourse on the site as a whole.

cdeb

~Rebel~ wrote: »

That's not a good argument - for this to mean something, you would have to be working in such definite terms, that we'd have left reality far behind.

Pointing to a white person being killed and saying "see, it's equal!" completely ignores the broader picture and only serves to obfuscate the argument. There's a reason that Tony Timpa's death did not set a country alight. George Floyd is the final straw. He is a more recent example of many many many.

There are badly trained and inept police AND there is system racism.

I agree single datum points aren't entirely useful - although in this case the incident is so rare that there are (fortunately) very few cases of it happening.

However, it does point away from your suggestion that black people in America are actively treated differently. I don't think you've given any solid support in favour of your argument.

There was larger-scale stats earlier in the thread showing the split between police homicides, population, crime rate and others by race. The conclusion does seem to be that while black people are disproportionately killed purely with reference to population, that doesn't appear to be the case when you go by crime rates (which is what police would generally be responding to, or the areas they would be more closely patrolling)

Now, almost none of these should happen (let's allow for a residual amount of genuine self-defence) and those that do are equally nasty and wrong. But I don't think you've shown anything to show that there's active advice to police to target different groups of people separately.

So I'm happy to let my statement stand.

Overheal

CrankyHaus wrote: »

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Passive-agressive bitchiness like this is something you wouldn't get from most Irish people and it brings down the level of discourse on the site as a whole.

LMFAO

Passive aggressive bitchiness is exactly what I would call a chap whining about the prevalence of American commenters on an open discussion site.

~Rebel~

Nermal wrote: »

Post this advice.

The particularly obvious example;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_City

"The stop-question-and-frisk program, or stop-and-frisk, in New York City, is a New York City Police Department practice of temporarily detaining, questioning, and at times searching civilians and suspects on the street for weapons and other contraband."

Ninety percent of those stopped in 2017 were African-American or Latino, mostly aged 14–24."

You don't get 90% as a figure by accident.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

Yes I am. Do I need to start wearing a tattoo on my forehead? I thought it was pretty clear from how I spoke. Thanks for being extra sure though

I'd comment but carrdogman would say I'd want to tattoo numbers on your forearm.

Overheal

~Rebel~ wrote: »

The particularly obvious example;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_City

"The stop-question-and-frisk program, or stop-and-frisk, in New York City, is a New York City Police Department practice of temporarily detaining, questioning, and at times searching civilians and suspects on the street for weapons and other contraband."

Ninety percent of those stopped in 2017 were African-American or Latino, mostly aged 14–24."

You don't get 90% as a figure by accident.

“But don’t blacks make up 90% of the population of NYC?” :rolleyes:

Foxtrol

Nermal wrote: »

Where there is widespread civil disorder, rioting and looting - yes. Absolutely.

Wow. Ripping up the constitution and laws because the government and law enforcement can't do their job.

Are you promoting full executions without trial also?

VinLieger

CrankyHaus wrote: »

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Passive-agressive bitchiness like this is something you wouldn't get from most Irish people and it brings down the level of discourse on the site as a whole.

Make boards great again! or something to that effect ehh?

ElmoLaw

CrankyHaus wrote: »

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Passive-agressive bitchiness like this is something you wouldn't get from most Irish people and it brings down the level of discourse on the site as a whole.

i think it is the one dimensional monologue that about 5 users on this thread are undertaking that is bringing down this thread. i do wonder though since you all seem to be backing each other up and bullying the other users if you are in fact one person. hmmmmmm

ElmoLaw

VinLieger wrote: »

Make boards great again! or something to that effect ehh?

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

gary550

Overheal wrote: »

So you understand part of why people are protesting.

protesting - yes

Looting, robbing, murdering and burning peoples businesses - no

Carfacemandog

gary550 wrote: »

protesting - yes

Looting, robbing, murdering and burning peoples businesses - no

When they protested peacefully at NFL games they got utterly vilified, with Trump leading the charge.

When they peacefully protested in Huntington Beach, in the exact spot heavily armed anti-lockdown protesters were allowed to continue on a few weeks ago despite some altercations with police, they got given an order to shut it down.

When they peacefully protested in Washington last night they got tear gassed and rubber bullets shot at them, with Trump giving the order.

I'm not very fond of the violence going on here at all, but the option for peaceful protest has been taken off the table for them from the get-go. And when you do that, a violent reaction is inevitable. Hong Kong being perhaps the latest of countless examples through out history.

markodaly

Overheal wrote: »

We don’t have a system for justly prosecuting murderer cops.

Im sorry but what?

The person behind this, is being charged with murder.
Do you want a seperate justice system for the police? What exactly is your point?

Tell me how

gary550 wrote: »

protesting - yes

Looting, robbing, murdering and burning peoples businesses - no