George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

BoroMan32

I believe the Officer involved should be charged and serve a significant sentence for his actions, however Floyd doesn't quite seem to be the gentle giant the media have portrayed over the past few days.

Floyd was charged in 2007 with armed robbery in a home invasion in Houston and in 2009 was sentenced to five years in prison as part of a plea deal, according to court documents.

https://apnews.com/766d7ec7c90d94ad38e3e1c31186fb95

walshb

KiKi III wrote: »

What a surprise, here you are demonising people for looting when you’ve been defending the killer all day.

Dehumanising people by calling them “feral animals” for the way they have been responding to the senseless killing of a member of their community.

Strange that you are more critical of the looting than the killing which you have downplayed as “reckless”.

Some people would say you’re just a massive racist, determined to see the best in the white people involved and the worst in the black people.

Not me, obviously, but some people would definitely see it that way.

Utter nonsense..

No need at all for fixating on skin color here. It’s people.

Looting is a scumbag act. Utter scum. And anyone involved in it are displaying scummy behaviour. There, that is that out of the way..

Defending the cop? Not at all. I have said several times that he should face consequences..

And, I also said that I would wait for all the facts here, albeit, that it does appear that the actions of the cop near the end were completely unjustified..

Also, the narrative that the cop deliberated killed the man. I am not ready to believe this, but his OTT restraining, that ended the man’s life, that should not go unchallenged. I have utter sympathy for that poor victim. Terrifying way to die.

You have went off on one here.

MeMen2_MoRi_

BoroMan32 wrote: »

I believe the Officer involved should be charged and serve a significant sentence for his actions, however Floyd doesn't quite seem to be the gentle giant the media have portrayed over the past few days.

Floyd was charged in 2007 with armed robbery in a home invasion in Houston and in 2009 was sentenced to five years in prison as part of a plea deal, according to court documents.

https://apnews.com/766d7ec7c90d94ad38e3e1c31186fb95

11 years is a like a life time..

When does someone's past become irrelevant? Is there any point to a justice system, that you serve your time for the crimes you commit..

For me, personally speaking I was an ass in my late teens.. early 20s I was a totally different person.

J Mysterio

nthclare wrote: »

This is a bit off topic but I remember around ten years ago I was out bass fishing off Doughmore Beach in Doonbeg at night with a detective from Limerick, we stopped off in Ennis for a takeaway at around 2:30 am

We were basically minding our own business not a car in sight so we had to step off the kirb and avoid a load of gannets and jocks on the street pissed.

So we walked on the road, for around 8 steps and a cocky ****er pushed me onto the street pathway and told me I was obstructing traffic and a danger to myself and others.

Well my friend had the right answer,he read the rookie his rights and told him that there wasn't any traffic on the road and his pushing me could be considered an assault..

All apologies after that..

Yes, it is off topic. What the hell has this useless story got to do with anything.

Dear God this thread is a travesty.

walshb

BoroMan32 wrote: »

I believe the Officer involved should be charged and serve a significant sentence for his actions, however Floyd doesn't quite seem to be the gentle giant the media have portrayed over the past few days.

Floyd was charged in 2007 with armed robbery in a home invasion in Houston and in 2009 was sentenced to five years in prison as part of a plea deal, according to court documents.

https://apnews.com/766d7ec7c90d94ad38e3e1c31186fb95

And a big strong man..

This will all be, or should be looked at, along with the video evidence...witness statements and anything else that could shed as much light as possible on why he was restrained the way he was.

jam_mac_jam

BoroMan32 wrote: »

I believe the Officer involved should be charged and serve a significant sentence for his actions, however Floyd doesn't quite seem to be the gentle giant the media have portrayed over the past few days.

Floyd was charged in 2007 with armed robbery in a home invasion in Houston and in 2009 was sentenced to five years in prison as part of a plea deal, according to court documents.

https://apnews.com/766d7ec7c90d94ad38e3e1c31186fb95

What exactly is the relevance? Obviously if he was being arrested he is likely to have committed a crime in the past.

walshb

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

What exactly is the relevance? Obviously if he was being arrested he is likely to have committed a crime in the past.

There is relevance in the sense that the cops may have needed to approach the situation a certain way...

There is a lot more to these situations. The past is the past, but at times, it is vitally instrumental in the present and future...

I’d be waiting for all the facts. And me important fact is prior history and behaviour of the victim. Was he a known threat, known to be aggressive, violent; his size, strength, proclivity to snap..

All these things are what need to be addressed when investigating..

Now, before all the mob jump in, I am not saying that the cops are justified..

RollieFingers

J Mysterio wrote: »

Yes, it is off topic. What the hell has this useless story got to do with anything.

Dear God this thread is a travesty.

Worst story ever.

Podge_irl

BoroMan32 wrote: »

I believe the Officer involved should be charged and serve a significant sentence for his actions, however Floyd doesn't quite seem to be the gentle giant the media have portrayed over the past few days.

Floyd was charged in 2007 with armed robbery in a home invasion in Houston and in 2009 was sentenced to five years in prison as part of a plea deal, according to court documents.

https://apnews.com/766d7ec7c90d94ad38e3e1c31186fb95

He could be the bloody Zodiac killer. It is of zero relevance.

jam_mac_jam

walshb wrote: »

There is relevance in the sense that the cops may have needed to approach the situation a certain way...

There is a lot more to these situations. The past is the past, but at times, it is vitally instrumental in the present and future...

I’d be waiting for all the facts. And me important fact is prior history and behaviour of the victim. Was he a known threat, known to be aggressive, violent; his size, strength, proclivity to snap..

All these things are what need to be addressed when investigating..

Now, before all the mob jump in, I am not saying that the cops are justified..

He was handcuffed with man on top of him. I'm not sure his previous crimes would prevent four policemen not being able to subdue him.

J Mysterio

walshb wrote: »

And a big strong man..

This will all be, or should be looked at, along with the video evidence...witness statements and anything else that could shed as much light as possible on why he was restrained the way he was.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Guy:Incognito

walshb wrote: »

There is relevance in the sense that the cops may have needed to approach the situation a certain way....

No. Hes on the ground , hands cuffed behind his back. What priors would lead you to believe hes capable of taking on 4 cops from that position?

walshb

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

He was handcuffed with man on top of him. I'm not sure his previous crimes would prevent four policemen not being able to subdue him.

I get this. My point is that to conduct a proper investigation into why the cop did what he did at the end, a complete story is needed...

All we have at present is video footage...

Don’t people want to know why the cop did what he did?

Hey, the answers/reason may not cut it, but we still should want to know..

jam_mac_jam

walshb wrote: »

I get this. My point is that to conduct a proper investigation into why the cop did what he did at the end, a complete story is needed...

All we have at present is video footage...

Don’t people want to know why the cop did what he did?

Hey, the answers/reason may not cut it, but we still should want to know..

Hopefully we will find out in a court case.

walshb

J Mysterio wrote: »

You should be ashamed of yourself.

For wanting the complete facts, story, details? Possible reasons for why a cop retrained a man resulting in his death?

A man lost his life. I think a proper investigation should be forthcoming...

It’s a necessity..

Gatling

BoroMan32 wrote: »

I believe the Officer involved should be charged and serve a significant sentence for his actions, however Floyd doesn't quite seem to be the gentle giant the media have portrayed over the past few days.

Has no bearing on his murder

jam_mac_jam

walshb wrote: »

For wanting the complete facts, story, details? Possible reasons for why a cop retrained a man resulting in his death?

A man lost his life. I think a proper investigation should be forthcoming...

It’s a necessity..

Nobody is saying or arguing against an investigation.

That's a complete strawman.

walshb

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Nobody is saying or arguing against an investigation.

That's a complete strawman.

So explain why I should be ashamed?

You said this because I mentioned all the facts to be addressed to shed light on why the cop restrained the man the way he did...

I said this, and you came back with the ashamed comment..

jam_mac_jam

walshb wrote: »

So explain why I should be ashamed?

You said this because I mentioned all the facts to be addressed to shed light on why the cop restrained the man the way he did...

I said this, and you came back with the ashamed comment..

No i didn't

Overheal

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Whole department shows up in support!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgJ0b-8L_9E

Jesus.

No mystery how the riots started, every cop for miles is part of a human shield at the cops house.

alchemist33

walshb wrote: »

For wanting the complete facts, story, details? Possible reasons for why a cop retrained a man resulting in his death?

A man lost his life. I think a proper investigation should be forthcoming...

It’s a necessity..

There's a good chance he did it becsuse he's a psychopath

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1215691

Over a dozen brutality complaints. He was also involved in a couple of police shootings.

Now of course Floyd's death has to be investigated, but a dozen complaints indicates he's been massively unlucky and picked upon, or he didn't need an external reason to do what he did.

walshb

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No i didn't

Didn’t what?

You said I should be ashamed....

Why should I be? For wanting all the facts and details, and questions asked as to why the cop restrained the man the way he did

Explain your comment? Because it seems to be slating my wanting all the details and facts..

A Consonant Please Carol

Sean.3516 wrote:

What’s happened is that the few instances of racism that will inevitably exist in a country of 350,000,000 people have been magnified to the point where people believe things are worse than they really are. There is no systemic mistreatment of blacks in America. Blacks aren’t over policed and are not disproportionately likely to be shot when you account for the crime rates among each demographic.

A Consonant Please Carol wrote:

How do you explain this rubbish? Did you ever consider the "crime" rates in a demographic correspond with a sustained focus on black people by police?

Sean.3516 wrote:

Historically and sociologically illiterate comment. Crime rates in the US had been plummeting since the late 80s as a direct result of increased policing. They’ve been increasing in the last decade thanks to less policing. Crime is not a reaction to policing. Crime is the result of a failure to inculcate societal virtue. In the US, this is mainly the result of the rates of single motherhood among minority communities (which was incentivised by welfare from the 60s onwards.) Inner city crime in the United States was non-existent relative to today before the 60s.

A Consonant Please Carol wrote:

Ah right, so avoid answering the question by waffling yet more rubbish.

Sean.3516 wrote:

You’re the one who raised the point that crime among a particular community seemed to be proportionate to the rate at which that community is policed, thereby implying that overpolicing may be the reason that blacks are more likely to be arrested and shot.

Sean.3516 wrote:

I explained to you why that theory was complete rubbish and even provided you with a source and now you call it waffle because you’ve realised you don’t have the knowledge to have this discussion.

See above. I'll break it down slowly.

My original reply asked, did you ever consider the "crime" rates in a demographic correspond with a sustained focus on black people.

Now remember, we're talking about reasons for a demographic having higher "crime" rates.....you replied with a load of waffle talking about general crime rates (not demographically) plummeting since the 80's due to more policing and they've been increasing since there's been less policing. You also say crime is not a reaction to policing, which I never said it was. You go on to say the reason is to do mainly with single motherhood in minority communities........ while poverty and environment are factors in going on to commit crime in some individuals there is a lot of other factors at play in crime rates being higher amongst black people. One definitely being, a sustained focus on black people by police. You also go on to spout more irrelevant waffle about inner city crime pre 60's being non existent relative to today. This has nothing to do with what I asked you.

On the second last quote above, you're right. You said crime rates are higher amongst black people. I asked did you consider these "crime" rates in a demographic correspond with a sustained focus on black people.

In the last quote you claim you explained why my theory was complete rubbish......you clearly didn't and waffled like I said. You also say incredulously you even provided a source..... You think because you read some fellas book it's gospel. Newsflash, there's a lot of books out there with differing opinions.

I'll explain it a different way to you. Consider this......if the police stop and search 100 black people and stop and search 20 white people... which demographic do you think will have the higher crime rate?

Hope this helps but I doubt it.

walshb

alchemist33 wrote: »

There's a good chance he did it because he's a psychopath.


https://www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1215691?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15906915302247&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fnews%2Fus-news%2Fminneapolis-police-officer-center-george-floyd-s-death-had-history-n1215691

Over a dozen brutality complaints. He was also involved in a couple of police shootings.

Now of course Floyd's death has to be investigated, but a dozen complaints indicates he's been massively unlucky and picked upon, or he didn't need an external reason to do what he did.

Yes, and all the relevant t details on him also need to be addressed...

There should be no stone left unturned here...

But here is one, if the cops past is relevant, then shouldn’t Floyd’s? Even if it goes to explain the type of man he was? Did he present extra possible danger to the cops?

People might not like this, but they are things that have to be addressed..

SusieBlue

walshb wrote: »

There is relevance in the sense that the cops may have needed to approach the situation a certain way...

There is a lot more to these situations. The past is the past, but at times, it is vitally instrumental in the present and future...

I’d be waiting for all the facts. And me important fact is prior history and behaviour of the victim. Was he a known threat, known to be aggressive, violent; his size, strength, proclivity to snap..

All these things are what need to be addressed when investigating..

Now, before all the mob jump in, I am not saying that the cops are justified..

He was face down on the ground with his hands cuffed behind his back. Unless he had the secret ability to shoot lasers with his eyes, he wasn’t a threat.

If the officers had genuine concerns for their own safety, kneeling on the back of Floyd’s knees would have been a less dangerous method of ensuring he was completely immobile, and wouldn’t have obstructed his windpipe causing him to suffocate.

Kneeling on his neck was pure unnecessary exertion of power, and nothing more. It was a disgusting display of unnecessary force and cruelty.
These are supposed to be professionals. They do not have the right to take the law into their own hands and start dishing out their own punishments roadside, regardless of what kind of past Floyd has.

He wasn’t a threat and that’s all it boils down to. His death was completely avoidable if the officer had just kneeled on his legs instead of his windpipe.

jam_mac_jam

walshb wrote: »

Didn’t what?

You said I should be ashamed....

Why should I be? For wanting all the facts and details, and questions asked as to why the cop restrained the man the way he did

Explain your comment? Because it seems to be skating my wanting all the details and facts..

I didn't say you should be ashamed. That was another poster.

Guy:Incognito

walshb wrote: »

For wanting the complete facts, story, details? Possible reasons for why a cop retrained a man resulting in his death?

A man lost his life. I think a proper investigation should be forthcoming...

It’s a necessity..

Again. If you were looking for or just waiting on facts, you wouldn't be speculating that he might have been resisting arrest

wotzgoingon

The guy was no threat. He was hand cuffed behind his back on the ground with four police officers. I could understand kneeling on him for a minute or two until backup arrived but this cop as calm as anything committing murder knelled on him for 10 mins. There was no need. There was four of them what threat was he, none what so ever.

walshb

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Again. If you were looking for or just waiting on facts, you wouldn't be speculating that he might have been resisting arrest

The speculation stemmed from the fact that the police said he was resisting.

Anyway, let us say he wasn’t

We still should want to find out why a cop did what he did that caused his death?

That’s more my point...

Guy:Incognito

walshb wrote: »

We still should want to find out why a cop did what he did that caused his death?

That’s more my point...

Well you're not going to get it here or anywhere until either a statement is released or the trial, so it'd seem theres no point in you continuing the conversation if its just the facts you're after.