George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Foxtrol

walshb wrote: »

Many just want hostility and aggro..

They are behaving like anarchists...

And many wouldn’t think twice at killing any cop they could get their hands on..

There is a whole element in society that are simply anti establishment, anti rules, anti law and order. They believe that people should be able to do as they please, come and go as they please, and not be answerable or accountable to anyone.

All down to selfishness.

That selfishness of not wanting the police to murder you or your family and then walk free

walshb

hetuzozaho wrote: »

The police seem to have totally lost the plot when dealing with the public in America. What are the rules around what they can do to the public? Are a lot of them going to be fired for going around smacking people?

They are allowed, like any law enforcement to use reasonable force, and more force if necessary..

Seriously, what are people expecting here? They age trying to restore law and order and calmness. They will have to, at times use force..

Now, if people work with them, and not against them, then maybe they can all go home in peace and quiet, and use more dignified ways to bring about whatever changes they think are needed...

walshb

Foxtrol wrote: »

That selfishness of not wanting the police to murder you or your family and then walk free

Nobody is walking feee. Chauvin has been charged. Days ago...

So, what’s the issue? Why still the aggro and unrest and aggression?

hetuzozaho

walshb wrote: »

They are allowed, like any law enforcement to use reasonable force, and more force if necessary..

Seriously, what are people expecting here? They age trying to restore law and order and calmness. They will have to, at times use force..

Now, if people work with them, and not against them, then maybe they can all go home in peace and quiet, and use more dignified ways to bring about whatever changes they think are needed...

In a lot of the videos they appear to be the aggressors at times though?

Say the guys who shot at the people on the porch, is that one being followed up? Any good site about following up incidents, finding it hard to google about such incidents.

And if say I was breaking the curfew, and I said "F U and your curfew" (cause I'm a mad man ha) can they hit me then?

walshb

hetuzozaho wrote: »

And if say I was breaking the curfew, and I said "F U and your curfew" (cause I'm a mad man ha) can they hit me then?

I don’t know, but really, is it worth the risk being a smart ass dickhead to the cops?

Personal responsibility will solve a hell of a lot more of these police vs people issues...hell of a lot more..

Foxtrol

2u2me wrote: »

But defunding the police will surely lead to more deaths and gangs and violence, particularly among the black communities, and then this will be recorded as examples of racism. Do you not see the conundrum?

Not if the money is put to better use. Look at the below table and compare the money pumped into the LAPD and compare it to things that could help the community and help keep people away from crime.

https://twitter.com/jourdayen/status/1268485485191745536?s=20

More broadly speaking there are no common goals. There seem to be protesting groups each with their own goals, and the media and activists like Antifa also spinning their goals. I would suggest there is no common direction for this movement at the moment.

I would love if the direction they took was more police accountability; list their demands and then get what they want. That is what I want.

I fear there are no concessions that would appease these protestors.

They have a common goal - police reform.

What you're demanding doesn't even make sense. Do you want every protest group in every single town to make their own list of specific demands, then the same for every city, then do the same for every state, then do the same for the legislative branch, and then do the same for executive branch?

Because of the way the US is set up you're asking for is thousands of lists of demands.

Overheal

2u2me wrote: »

But defunding the police will surely lead to more deaths and gangs and violence, particularly among the black communities, and then this will be recorded as examples of racism. Do you not see the conundrum?

More broadly speaking there are no common goals. There seem to be protesting groups each with their own goals, and the media and activists like Antifa also spinning their goals. I would suggest there is no common direction for this movement at the moment.

I would love if the direction they took was more police accountability; list their demands and then get what they want. That is what I want.

I fear there are no concessions that would appease these protestors.

There are some protestors (hundreds, to a couple thousand) who you are right, want to rage and loot no matter what. The vast majority of people though are reasonable. And once they go home the instigators will have no crowd to latch on to.

joe40

walshb wrote: »

Nobody is walking feee. Chauvin has been charged. Days ago...

So, what’s the issue? Why still the aggro and unrest and aggression?

Plenty of others are walking free. This is not just about one person, you know that though.

RWCNT

walshb wrote: »

Many just want hostility and aggro..

They are behaving like anarchists...

How many anarchists do you know? All the ones I've met spend most of their time volunteering and waffling about niche literature.

Overheal

Foxtrol wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jourdayen/status/1268485485191745536?s=20



They have a common goal - police reform.

What you're demanding doesn't even make sense. Do you want every protest group in every single town to make their own list of specific demands, then the same for every city, then do the same for every state, then do the same for the legislative branch, and then do the same for executive branch?

Because of the way the US is set up you're asking for is thousands of lists of demands.

What it would be is a cut and dry violation of the first amendment:

“You can’t assemble unless you list your grievances and demands in writing and have them approved by the local ministry of truth..” etc

Foxtrol

walshb wrote: »

Nobody is walking feee. Chauvin has been charged. Days ago...

So, what’s the issue? Why still the aggro and unrest and aggression?

There are hundreds of cops walking free. After a slow response these cops have been charged but because of laws it is quite possible they could walk free, even with video evidence.

Maybe you missed this earlier, but here are some others the people are protesting. There are many more in the unlikely event that you're bothered to do a bit or research before you post again.

Foxtrol wrote: »

In many cases, yes there is a shoot to kill policy.

Breona Taylor - shot in bed by cops that entered the wrong house and felt threatened by an unarmed woman in her pajamas and put 8 bullets in her. Those cops still walk the streets.

Philando Castile - shot several times when stopped while driving with his girlfriend and 4 year old daughter for following instructions and reaching for his license. That cop is still walking the streets.

Tamir Rice - 12 year old shot twice 2 seconds after the cop arrived for the crime of playing with a toy gun in a park. That cop is still walking the streets.

The list goes on and on. You should really do some research before posting rambling nonsense.

hetuzozaho

walshb wrote: »

I don’t know, but really, is it worth the risk being a smart ass dickhead to the cops?

I was just curious is all. Just so many videos where it looks like they've lost the plot a little. Some of the cases I'm just thinking, just walk away dude, to the cops! The one where they accelerated through the crowd in the SUV in NY, just get out and go home Just people too obviously. Some of them scared no doubt. Angry. Hyped up. It's just sad to watch them do that to people.

ninebeanrows

That guy who introduced Al is the worst, seems so fake

walshb

joe40 wrote: »

Plenty of others are walking free. This is not just about one person, you know that though.

So when do the protests stop?

When Carlsberg run the police?

What will the new norm be now? Cops can’t get at all firm and tough on black people? Any perceived injustice will see people encouraging protesting, which leads to violence and societal breakdown..

The race angle here is the big problem. Not the cops. People pushing the angle that cops are unfairly targeting black people.

Black people pressing it, white people pressing it. Stirring up racial tensions that don’t exist near to the levels that they’d like.

Foxtrol

walshb wrote: »

I don’t know, but really, is it worth the risk being a smart ass dickhead to the cops?

Personal responsibility will solve a hell of a lot more of these police vs people issues...hell of a lot more..

See the reason why people are protesting is that personal responsibility is never on the cop.

The guy that committed murder last week had nearly 20 complaints against him, this guy that was caught shoving a protester had 79 complaints in 3.5 years

https://twitter.com/MaryEllenKlas/status/1268309801303490560?s=20

vetinari

Racial tensions that don't exist??

Are you able to say that with a straight face?
I guess if you're not changing your mind by now, you never will.

walshb

vetinari wrote: »

Racial tensions that don't exist??

Are you able to say that with a straight face?
I guess if you're not changing your mind by now, you never will.

Read what I wrote again, slower this time...

BluePlanet

"Black on Black crime" :rolleyes:
This is just a racist trope.

Let's not pretend that Tucker Carson and pretty much every right winger isn't a raving racist when they mention this.
It's obviously an attempt at distraction from the issues and an exercise in victim blaming. At it's root is the belief that black ppl and black society is inferior and so white supremacy must lord over them.

If you want a break down of the statics and an actual black person's POV, check this thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268463768285188096.html

Overheal

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I was just curious is all. Just so many videos where it looks like they've lost the plot a little. Some of the cases I'm just thinking, just walk away dude, to the cops! The one where they accelerated through the crowd in the SUV in NY, just get out and go home Just people too obviously. Some of them scared no doubt. Angry. Hyped up. It's just sad to watch them do that to people.

And there’s no ambiguity about it. When NYPD officers are doing this we see them and can go petition the NYPD or local govt. when random looters etc come and go who do you petition, and why? If it’s a white how do you know it’s a protest ally? If it’s a black how do you know they aren’t in the Candace Owens camp, out there looking to sow confusion and muck? Even if they are protest allies who do you petition for smashing into a store in NYC? George Floyd’s mom? The people of Minneapolis? Antifa of Portland?

I mean go ahead and bemoan the fact that cops ‘have their hands tied’ because they wear uniforms and are held accountable but that’s because they are a government entity for and by the people they police. The vast majority of tax dollars people pay to local government goes to policing. Of course people will insist policing of the police.

joe40

walshb wrote: »

I don’t know, but really, is it worth the risk being a smart ass dickhead to the cops?

Personal responsibility will solve a hell of a lot more of these police vs people issues...hell of a lot more..

I'm not trying to be funny this is a serious question is there anything that would make you go on a protest. Can you think of something that might happen in Ireland that would make you protest.
Me personally I haven't, just not much happening in recent years. Water charges weren't my thing.

Farmers blocked traffic in Dublin recently caused massive disruption. Were they justified or should the guards have went in with batons?

What would get your hackles up enough for you to join a protest.
Hypothetical question, and again not looking to be awkward just interested.

Overheal

Foxtrol wrote: »

See the reason why people are protesting is that personal responsibility is never on the cop.

The guy that committed murder last week had nearly 20 complaints against him, this guy that was caught shoving a protester had 79 complaints in 3.5 years

https://twitter.com/MaryEllenKlas/status/1268309801303490560?s=20

Complaints are filed in the short cupboard behind the fridge, if you can file a complaint at all. Numerous watchdog investigations show police threatening complainers with jail time and harassing them for coming forward just to simply ask to begin the process of filing a complaint form.

I didn’t know they had so many complaints. 3 in a normal job and you’re gone.

kwestfan08

walshb wrote: »

Nobody is walking feee. Chauvin has been charged. Days ago...

So, what’s the issue? Why still the aggro and unrest and aggression?

Ahmuad Arbery was killed in February, which was captured on video and the DA twice advised that no arrests be made. It wasn't until the video leaked in May did anything be done to capture his killers.

That is just one example of many of the justice system failing the ordinary Black American and people are rightfully fed up about it. I guarantee George Floyd's killers wouldn't be charged with anything had the protests and the uproar not happened.

Foxtrol

walshb wrote: »

Shoving a protester....

Cop shoved protester.......

I get the impression that the only thing that will make you happy is the tellytubies taking over the force.

FFS, you’re having a laugh....

By that I presume you didn't watch the video. It was a woman who peacefully had her hands up while on her knees.

If you were really a proponent of personal responsibility you'll call the cop out but I'm sure you'll twist yourself in knots trying to defend him.

His colleague certainly sorted him out all the same.

https://twitter.com/BenjaminPDixon/status/1267291999805325312?s=20

Overheal

joe40 wrote: »

I'm not trying to be funny this is a serious question is there anything that would make you go on a protest. Can you think of something that might happen in Ireland that would make you protest.
Me personally I haven't, just not much happening in recent years. Water charges weren't my thing.

Farmers blocked traffic in Dublin recently caused massive disruption. Were they justified or should the guards have went in with batons?

What would get your hackles up enough for you to join a protest.
Hypothetical question, and again not looking to be awkward just interested.

And those farmers would have been “lowlifes” for bringing their children to the demonstration, because free speech is a dangerous activity :rolleyes:

Clarence Boddiker

BluePlanet wrote: »

"Black on Black crime" :rolleyes:
This is just a racist trope.

Let's not pretend that Tucker Carson and pretty much every right winger isn't a raving racist when they mention this.
It's obviously an attempt at distraction from the issues and an exercise in victim blaming. At it's root is the belief that black ppl and black society is inferior and so white supremacy must lord over them.

If you want a break down of the statics and an actual black person's POV, check this thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268463768285188096.html

Black on Black crime is real and is borne out by all of the data and statistics, to say other wise is straight up lying. At the root of your thinking is the belief that Black people are not accountable for their actions or choices, are not capable of living their own lives responsibly and are more like children whom the white progressives are here to save.

Overheal

BluePlanet wrote: »

"Black on Black crime" :rolleyes:
This is just a racist trope.

Let's not pretend that Tucker Carson and pretty much every right winger isn't a raving racist when they mention this.
It's obviously an attempt at distraction from the issues and an exercise in victim blaming. At it's root is the belief that black ppl and black society is inferior and so white supremacy must lord over them.

If you want a break down of the statics and an actual black person's POV, check this thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268463768285188096.html

hetuzozaho

Foxtrol wrote: »

By that I presume you didn't watch the video. It was a woman who peacefully had her hands up while on her knees.

If you were really a proponent of personal responsibility you'll call the cop out but I'm sure you'll twist yourself in knots trying to defend him.

His colleague certainly sorted him out all the same.

https://twitter.com/BenjaminPDixon/status/1267291999805325312?s=20

That's what I was talking about. Why not just walk away. and in this case he walks away but has to push the woman first? Just heat of the moment etc but are they not trained in this stuff? Just seems like 101 being a cop, don't be touching, pushing, smacking, driving cars at or shooting at people you don't need to.

Overheal

hetuzozaho wrote: »

That's what I was talking about. Why not just walk away. and in this case he walks away but has to push the woman first? Just heat of the moment etc but are they not trained in this stuff? Just seems like 101 being a cop, don't be touching, pushing, smacking, driving cars at or shooting at people you don't need to.

Ah now they can't show any weakness like a respect for the law and order they enforce.

2u2me

BluePlanet wrote: »

"Black on Black crime" :rolleyes:
This is just a racist trope.

Let's not pretend that Tucker Carson and pretty much every right winger isn't a raving racist when they mention this.
It's obviously an attempt at distraction from the issues and an exercise in victim blaming. At it's root is the belief that black ppl and black society is inferior and so white supremacy must lord over them.

If you want a break down of the statics and an actual black person's POV, check this thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268463768285188096.html

Tucker Carlson was dissecting the facts that the Washington Post, all shootings from police that lead to fatalities.

That you choose again to smear the character of the person rather than deal with the argument is really telling.

Forget the bull**** about a blackperson's POV, Candace Owens view was dismissed out of hand earlier. Where were you defending that?

Carfacemandog

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

colour me shocked is an expression that has nothing to do with ethnicity.

Replace 'anti semites' with whatever term you wish, whenever I read posts like the one you quoted it becomes more and more clear how well some here would have fit in in the 1930s and 1940s.

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

- Jean-Paul Sartre