George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Enter name here

Enter name here wrote: »

No white privilege is just another bull**** phrase made up from disgruntled blacks. As i said it was a terrible event and the officer should face his actions in a court. Still doesn't give the black community an excuse to do what they are doing now does it?

My apologies so. Seems like we are singing off the same hymn sheet. Balthough I would blame the white privilege saying to have originated from virtue signalling white people who took offence on behalf of people of colour.

It's late and I may be reading **** wrong. Apologies again.

Enter name here

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah, I really don't think it could have happened a wealthy neighbourhood to a white guy. It really wouldn't happen.

I don't think anyone has said the blacks have a right to loot and pillage. Do you think someone said the blacks have a right to loot and pillage?

What do you think they are currently doing protesting peacefully in the streets?

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you judging all the police on the actions of a few? Do you believe that because a not insignificant amount of the police force have shown themselves to behave inappropriately they should be watched and perhaps not trusted? Do you believe that because some of them acted horrendously, people are justified to smash up their offices?

In a word: no.

Take Clemson for example. Excellent reputation for fairness; equally there are concerns that CCPD is among the biggest users of the civil asset forfeiture rules among all jurisdictions in the state.

These doesn’t mean we shouldn’t acknowledge, for instance, the wrongful death of a teenager at a Hardee’s in Seneca over in neighboring Oconnee county. I’m sure no one could say, upon hearing about what happened there, that they would have an uplifted viewpoint of the law enforcement.

nullzero

Sniper69 wrote: »

They need to do two things.

One is to charge the officers with murder. Chauvin with first degree.

Second is to introduce legislation for police accountability. Otherwise nothing will change.

If the cops are acquitted or god forbid not even charged, the violence will cascade into different cities.
Chicaco is brewing right now, and in the middle of a massive pandemic America cannot afford to lose two major tax centers.

First degree murder isn't in the offing. Possibly second degree, definitely voluntary manslaughter.

DrPhilG

Sniper69 wrote: »

They need to do two things.

One is to charge the officers with murder. Chauvin with first degree.

Highly unlikely, if my understanding of the law is correct.

For 1st degree murder, there needs to be premeditation.

It would be damn near impossible to prove that Chauvin planned to kill George Floyd before the incident occurred. For one, I doubt that he did. It would take a special kind of idiot to sit there and murder someone with a crowd standing around taping it.

And even if he did set out to kill him, there is too much scope for "reasonable doubt" and for him to claim that it was accidental. A prosecutor would be mad to go for that and risk losing the conviction.

Mohamed Noor, the cop who shot an unarmed woman in Minnesota in 2017, was charged and convicted of 3rd degree murder and sentenced to 15 years.

I'd say that's the kind of charge this guy will face.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

Critical for you, a person commenting on the Internet living thousands of miles away.
These people have to continue living there, now without the luxury of jobs and amenities in their communities.
If you really want to reform the apparatus enforcing the law is indulging in mindless criminality really helping your position?

I live 257 miles away. Don’t make assumptions.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

I live 257 miles away. Don’t make assumptions.

My apologies, although assuming a person on an Irish site lives in Ireland is hardly a stretch.

El_Duderino 09

nullzero wrote: »

The "1916 lads" weren't looting shops. The troubles caused more than damage to cities, thousands of people died. The people marching peacefully as part of the civil rights movement in Northern Ireland weren't looting shops or rioting.

I'm not in any way splitting hairs here at all. You seem to have a loose grasp on Irish history and are using that to compare to what's going on in Minneapolis. Look at the civil rights movement in America in the 60s for reference, it gained momentum because it was peaceful.

Yeah. They both used violence, they both caused harm,to their own cities, they both turned violent because they were treated unfairly due to the unfair way they were there's over a long period and they weren't being addressed.

The similarities are huge because that's what people do when you treat them unfairly, they turn to violence. They had differences also like the fact the the 1916 lads mad the IRA were organised. The lootwra aren't organised.

The American intelligence agencies are always looking for domestic terrorists. I wouldn't fancy the IRA to get their organisation going if they had to Co tend with the modern American security services.

In Amy case the main point is that peoep turn violent when they're treated unfairly. It's just what peoep do. How that violence manifests depends on circumstances. Hence the differences between the 1916 lads and the protesters and rioters. All texpreaaiona of the exact same thing. Cause and effect is really clear from the police killing the guy to the protests and riots

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

My apologies, although assuming a person on an Irish site lives in Ireland is hardly a stretch.

True but it highlights a problem with leaning arguments on ad hominems. Your deflection was basically “what do you care because of how far removed you are”

It’s a Human Rights case.

nullzero

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah. They both used violence, they both caused harm,to their own cities, they both turned violent because they were treated unfairly due to the unfair way they were there's over a long period and they weren't being addressed.

The similarities are huge because that's what people do when you treat them unfairly, they turn to violence. They had differences also like the fact the the 1916 lads mad the IRA were organised. The lootwra aren't organised.

The American intelligence agencies are always looking for domestic terrorists. I wouldn't fancy the IRA to get their organisation going if they had to Co tend with the modern American security services.

In Amy case the main point is that peoep turn violent when they're treated unfairly. It's just what peoep do. How that violence manifests depends on circumstances. Hence the differences between the 1916 lads and the protesters and rioters. All texpreaaiona of the exact same thing.

You literally just ignored every point I made and doubled down on your opinion. I suppose some "peoep" are just like that, what can you do?

Overheal

If this was Iran, or Egypt etc or some other muslim country where there was a popular uprising of the people in response to a police brutality incident, would we still be nitpicking the rioting?

El_Duderino 09

Enter name here wrote: »

What do you think they are currently doing protesting peacefully in the streets?

If they protest peacefully then there's no harm. If they cause harm then there is harm. I really don't think anyone believes the blacks have a right to do whatever they want. The poster who said that is being a clown.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

True but it highlights a problem with leaning arguments on ad hominems. Your deflection was basically “what do you care because of how far removed you are”

It’s a Human Rights case.

Well even with your increased proximity (compared to my incorrect assumption) are you personally going to be affected by the aftermath of these riots?

Can you accept that destroying your own community, no matter how justified to feel you are to do so leaves you to deal with the consequences of your own actions?

In six months time, if businesses have closed in these communities leaving people without jobs will you be feeling the impact?

Civil rights issues are important, being able to put food on the table is too.

ChikiChiki

That's all America needs. Mass social unrest in the midst of a Pandemic. This poor man's death could be a real tipping point.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

If this was Iran, or Egypt etc or some other muslim country where there was a popular uprising of the people in response to a police brutality incident, would we still be nitpicking the rioting?

Yeah. If the Egyptian lads were running out of target with televisions and booze to mourn and protest mistreatment by police which caused an unjustified death, I'd nitpick the **** out of it.:mad:

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

If this was Iran, or Egypt etc or some other muslim country where there was a popular uprising of the people in response to a police brutality incident, would we still be nitpicking the rioting?

We should criticise looting and mindless destruction regardless of where it occurs, so yes.

El_Duderino 09

nullzero wrote: »

You literally just ignored every point I made and doubled down on your opinion. I suppose some "peoep" are just like that, what can you do?

I know there were differences in the way they expressed the violence. I already know that and it doesn't matter to the point I've made.

Treat people unfairly and ignore their calls for justice and they'll move on from peaceful forms of protest to violent forms of protest. Violence can be organised or disorganised. It's the same thing whatever form the violence takes, from the 1916 lads to the rioters. Very same thing happening in different forms.

Mehapoy

I presume the rioters aren't carrying weapons and threatening to storm the seat of government so they won't be treated with kids gloves and have the president tweeting his support.
To me America looks like a pressure cooker about to explode, if the police force has lost the a significant portion of the population and have to resort to fear then it's no better than the countries they invade in order to bring 'freedom' .

Quick question to overheal...

If you are white, and if you are a man, do you feel white guilt and do you think you have white privilege?

nullzero

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I know there were differences in the way they expressed the violence. I already know that and it doesn't matter to the point I've made.

Treat people unfairly and ignore their calls for justice and they'll move on from peaceful forms of protest to violent forms of protest. Violence can be organised or disorganised. It's the same thing whatever form the violence takes, from the 1916 lads to the rioters. Very same thing happening in different forms.

These things aren't the very same at all.

They are demonstrably different.

Sniper69

Mehapoy wrote: »

I presume the rioters aren't carrying weapons and threatening to storm the seat of government so they won't be treated with kids gloves and have the president tweeting his support.
To me America looks like a pressure cooker about to explode, if the police force has lost the a significant portion of the population and have to resort to fear then it's no better than the countries they invade in order to bring 'freedom' .

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

-Thomas Jefferson

2u2me

Enter name here wrote: »

LOL and if you are white you would be killed for just being on the streets. Are you that ****ing naive?

I saw some white protestors in the footage of the riots. They seemed just as 'safe' as anyone else there.

KiKi III

Enter name here wrote: »

But a very accurate one at that, sick to death of all the racist card **** being played. It was a terrible wrong no doubt but was no way racially motivated and doesn't give blacks the right to loot and pillage.

How could you possibly know that it wasn’t racially motivated?

El_Duderino 09

nullzero wrote: »

These things aren't the very same at all.

They are demonstrably different.

Yeah there are differences. Mostly the fact they the 1916 lads and the IRA were organised. looters aren't organised or else theyd be doing more than rioting and looting.

The cause of the violence is the exact same.

ChikiChiki

ChikiChiki wrote: »

That's all America needs. Mass social unrest in the midst of a Pandemic. This poor man's death could be a real tipping point.

People will be along to blame trump for this. How quickly they forget the BLM murders and riots.

MeMen2_MoRi_

nullzero wrote: »

Critical for you, a person commenting on the Internet living thousands of miles away.
These people have to continue living there, now without the luxury of jobs and amenities in their communities.
If you really want to reform the apparatus enforcing the law is indulging in mindless criminality really helping your position?

Are you for fcuking real?

A guy was put to death by one of them, aided by the others in blue who stood by him while he choked the life out of George Floyd? Your worry is what luxury life they miss out on after these events they created..

I thought I reached peak billsh!t with the riots.. nope here's nullzero with "ah well what about these guys luxury life" that they have to live without.. where is George Floyd's thoughts in your thinking here?

There is an equilibrium between law and citizen, when this favours the law, time to pack the bags and move to like a state like NK, Iran etc.. the citizen should never be below the law, that creates a very bad situation.

nullzero

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah there are differences. Mostly the fact they the 1916 lads and the IRA were organised. looters aren't organised or else theyd be doing more than rioting and looting.

The cause of the violence is the exact same.

No it isn't.

We're not going to agree on this so I'll leave it here if you can be civil.

nullzero

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Are you for fcuking real?

A guy was put to death by one of them, aided by the others in blue who stood by him while he choked the life out of George Floyd? Your worry is what luxury life they miss out on after these events they created..

I thought I reached peak billsh!t with the riots.. nope here's nullzero with "ah well what about these guys luxury life" that they have to live without.. where is George Floyd's thoughts in your thinking here?

There is an equilibrium between law and citizen, when this favours the law, time to pack the bags and move to like a state like NK, Iran etc.. the citizen should never be below the law, that creates a very bad situation.

Luxury life?
I said they won't have the luxury of jobs or amenities after destroying their own communities.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant though.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Quick question to overheal...

If you are white, and if you are a man, do you feel white guilt and do you think you have white privilege?

You’re way off base there.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

You’re way off base there.

No worries. Was just a question. Unless you are comfortable disclosing your ethnicity and sex, it's not too important.

Do you believe in white privilege for the normal Joe soap who walks around Dublin?