George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

ELM327

cdeb wrote: »

But the stats seem to show that black people have police interaction roughly in proportion to their levels of crime.

Certainly stuff quoted here either indicates that, or doesn't indicate a comparison statistic for other races and so has no context.

Is that racist now?

I think a lot of what you've said is just something people are starting to believe simply because it's repeated so often.

Careful there, that's like targeting a "nomadic ethic minority" in ireland.
Statistically more likely to be arrested for theft in proportion to their levels of crime as a group.
But to say so is "racist" by the woke left.


For these people, the woke sjw left, the statistical truth is met by screeches of racism

hetuzozaho

hetuzozaho wrote: »

And was there ever an explanation for this guy just strolling around, I presume he is part of some law enforcement?

https://twitter.com/taygang98/status/1267269447708028929

I'd say her and her friend were some shrinking violets. With a username like taygang98.

The guy was told to go home and he went home. If black people followed police instructions they wouldn't end up in so many confrontations with police. I've seen so many videos of police incidents that start off innocuous but because black people are too proud or stubborn they constantly challenge the police authority and make a bad situation worse. If I am in the states I know since forever that they are dumb Robocop types who are not to be messed or joked with. They say jump I say how hi. You play their game then you have no problems.

joe40

cdeb wrote: »

But the stats seem to show that black people have police interaction roughly in proportion to their levels of crime.

Certainly stuff quoted here either indicates that, or doesn't indicate a comparison statistic for other races and so has no context.

Is that racist now?

I think a lot of what you've said is just something people are starting to believe simply because it's repeated so often.

Just one news article I have read recently.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/04/american-police-violence-against-black-people

Even just look at the video posted above, are you seriously going to tell me if a heavily armed black man walked around like that in a tense situation he would simply be told to go home.

s7ryf3925pivug

cdeb wrote: »

No, people will point to Tony Timpa, a white man who was killed in the exact same way by police officers in 2016. No criminal charges were brought, and the county offices fought tooth and nail to avoid having the incriminating video footage released, where the officers mocked Timpa in the exact same way they mocked Floyd.

That to me discredits your point about systemic racism. And that is a big deal.

He was schizophrenic. People with schizophrenia are more marginalised than black people. Find a different example.

[FYI EU visitors aren't able to view your link.]

MeMen2_MoRi_

joe40 wrote: »

Unless the police man was shouting "die n**ger" there is no way to know if an individual incident was race related.

This is not about Floyd in isolation. This is about the hundreds of unjustified police deaths in America over the years. The black population are bearing the brunt of it.

I hate to see violence but if it the result of this unrest is the American police finally implement reforms then that will save lives in the long run. (I'm not optimistic)

If the current system is allowed to continue then there will be more Floyds. More unnecessary deaths.
That is surely worse than some burnt buildings.

Police have a lot to answer for the way they behave.

The contrast with the armed anti lock down protests is stark.

There is a way, search their electronics (computers/phones) like in the Ahmaud Arbery case, the guy that shot him had comments like fcuking n*gger across his social profiles, even using those words after killing him.

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/live-trials-current/ahmaud-arbery/judge-rules-all-three-men-charged-in-ahmaud-arbery-killing-will-face-trial/?utm_source=mostpopular

hetuzozaho

joe40 wrote: »

That just beggars belief.
Some idiot is going to come on and talk about "free carry" before long.

Someone was saying it wasn't an open carry state? Just the way he was treated compared to some of the videos of black people I have seen, the one where they start arresting the black people who actual flagged down the police to stop looting their neighbourhood store.

It's not a good look anyway! I'm starting to think this white privilege thing might be real! :P

ohnonotgmail

cdeb wrote: »

No, people will point to Tony Timpa, a white man who was killed in the exact same way by police officers in 2016. No criminal charges were brought, and the county offices fought tooth and nail to avoid having the incriminating video footage released, where the officers mocked Timpa in the exact same way they mocked Floyd.

That to me discredits your point about systemic racism. And that is a big deal.

how does that in anyway disprove systemic racism? It proves that the police are brutal thugs who are supported by a corrupt justice system but it doesnt disprove anything about systemic racism.

s7ryf3925pivug

walshb wrote: »

Nothing is certain....both sides will argue this, and you will have conflicting medical opinions and reports on what caused George's death

I can't know for certain, but from my viewing of the video footage, the color of skin here did not seem to be a major factor for why Chauvin did what he did...

Chauvin was defying the crowd here. They were challenging him, and he did not like it one bit....it made him even more aggressive and resolute in his actions against George...

Chauvin likely does this to any color....circumstances played a part here....

That is why it disgusts me to see such wanton destruction and violence on the streets, all being peddled and encouraged and condoned under the guise of racism protesting.....

The whole world is peddling it and promoting it.....Leo, Obama, and others.....

Instead of calling for a complete cessation to protesting to preserve society and quell the madness, they are pretending to make this about peaceful protesting.....there is nothing peaceful going on in the States now...

I won't quote my previous post about about disputing whether the policeman killed him. It might fall into the backhand swiping category. However a heavy man was kneeling on his throat while he said he couldn't breathe and that he was about to die. It is grasping at straws to suggest something else killed him, just by councidence, at that very moment.

I have haemophilia. If someone hit my head with a hammer and I died from a brain hoemorhage, that person would have killed me, regardless of whether a non-haemophiliac might have survived the same incident.

ohnonotgmail

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Someone was saying it wasn't an open carry state? Just the way he was treated compared to some of the videos of black people I have seen, the one where they start arresting the black people who actual flagged down the police to stop looting their neighbourhood store.

It's not a good look anyway! I'm starting to think this white privilege thing might be real! :P

illinois isnt an open carry state. the police should have arrested him but they didnt for some reason.

hetuzozaho

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say her and her friend were some shrinking violets. With a username like taygang98.

The guy was told to go home and he went home. If black people followed police instructions they wouldn't end up in so many confrontations with police. I've seen so many videos of police incidents that start off innocuous but because black people are too proud or stubborn they constantly challenge the police authority and make a bad situation worse. If I am in the states I know since forever that they are dumb Robocop types who are not to be messed or joked with. They say jump I say how hi. You play their game then you have no problems.

Well hopefully some people will stand up for their rights Wojtek.

hetuzozaho

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

illinois isnt an open carry state. the police should have arrested him but they didnt for some reason.

That's what I heard, but my source was Wendell Pierce who i loved in the wire etc but and emotions are high so it's hard to get all the facts sometimes.

Just thought it was in such contrast to what I was seeing and was really interested in the story behind it.

josip

There's blood pouring out of the old guy's head and yet PL1's concern seems to be to keep the police moving forward and checking if the cameras are recording it?

hetuzozaho

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Well hopefully some people will stand up for their rights Wojtek.

Resisting arrest is not standing up for your rights. Being excessively confrontational and abusing police is not standing up for your rights.

lawrencesummers

The video of the elderly guy in Buffalo being pushed over is disturbing.

Two officers have been suspended without pay for it, and rightly so.

But I wonder if the people in charge of the police forces risk losing their departments because let’s face it the cops that are manning the riot lines are getting conflicting messages. Firstly push back protestors, using whatever force is deemed Necessary by their training, Their “commander in chief” is saying to crush them and “start shooting” and then they are getting suspended for following the orders they get.

Before anyone goes off on one, I’m not saying they are right to behave how they are, but they are following the orders they have been given and going according to the training they have received, only to be suspended when that happens.

Carfacemandog

cdeb wrote: »

It's interesting how much more powerful a list that is for not trying to categorise things by white/black. It puts the focus firmly on the real problem - what the police are doing.

I think that's been a really interesting development, and somewhere where the police have let themselves down massively over this whole debacle - while brutality against black people is still at the forefront, it seems to have shifted into largely being about police brutality/accountability in general.

From brutal crackdowns on crowds with black, white, brown, Asian people, to tear gassing and shooting rubber bullets even at entirely peaceful protesters, to attacking the elderly, members of the media, even medics trying to assist the injured (which is typically classified as a war crime), the police have done an absolutely amazing job in making themselves appear to be what they have often been accused of. And they've managed it on a global scale.

Optically, compared to their response to the anti lockdown protests where people were storming government buildings with assault rifles and forcing government closures over safety concerns, the difference here in police response has been an absolute catastrophe for them.

lawrencesummers

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I think that's been a really interesting development, and somewhere where the police have let themselves down massively over this whole debacle - while brutality against black people is still at the forefront, it seems to have shifted into largely being about police brutality/accountability in general.

From brutal crackdowns on crowds with black, white, brown, Asian people, to tear gassing and shooting rubber bullets even at entirely peaceful protesters, to attacking the elderly, members of the media, even medics trying to assist the injured (which is typically classified as a war crime), the police have done an absolutely amazing job in making themselves appear to be what they have often been accused of. And they've managed it on a global scale.

Optically, compared to their response to the anti lockdown protests where people were storming government buildings with assault rifles and forcing government closures over safety concerns, the difference here in police response has been an absolute catastrophe for them.

War crimes happen during wars.

Global scale means it has spread outside one country. Police brutality hasn’t.

hetuzozaho

Deleted User wrote: »

Resisting arrest is not standing up for your rights. Being excessively confrontational and abusing police is not standing up for your rights.

You just stick to asking how high :pac:

Carfacemandog

An absolutely horrific story from Austin Texas, as a 16 year old student, who was clearly standing alone on a hill got shot in the face by police officers (I am not sure what with exactly) knocking him unconscious and blood to stream out of his head. Panicked protesters went to tend to him and moved him about/poured water on the wound which may have made things worse if it were deep enough. I am unsure what his condition is now.

WARNING: THIS IS EXTREMELY GRAPHIC!

In another incident in Austin, a 20 year who was also shot by police and bleeding heavily from the head was being taken away by medics... when Austin PD decided to open fire on the medics. This video is equally horrifying, though less graphic. The family have apparently confirmed he now has brain damage.

https://twitter.com/DavidFr31601156/status/1267315908760010754?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.buzzfeednews.com%2Farticle%2Famberjamieson%2Fjustin-howell-protester-shot-head-police-austin-beanbag

cdeb

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how does that in anyway disprove systemic racism? It proves that the police are brutal thugs who are supported by a corrupt justice system but it doesnt disprove anything about systemic racism.

The point being made to prove systemic racism exists was that police wouldn't dare do to a white man what they did to George Floyd.

So by showing that actually they would and have done, it invalidates the original argument now being made.

Now of course, the deflection is turning to schizophrenia - white schizophrenics are different (because the police obviously knew that when kneeling on him to kill him). You can't win with some people - there has to be an ism somewhere.

Carfacemandog

lawrencesummers wrote: »

War crimes happen during wars.

Global scale means it has spread outside one country. Police brutality hasn’t.

By global scale, I am referring to the rest of the world becoming aware of what is going on in the US, as they have been in Hong Kong over the last year. Australians, Brits, etc seeing their own media being assaulted by American police on live TV doesn't help this one bit.

And this is a protest or riot, not a war. These are the police, not the army. That this needs to be clarified says all it needs to about the American police, and only reiterates concerns that people have been having about their militarisation for the past several years (like even small, rural departments buying ex military vehicles). The police have done an excellent job in proving many of those fears correct, and advertising exactly why for the whole world to see.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Resisting arrest is not standing up for your rights. Being excessively confrontational and abusing police is not standing up for your rights.

and yet we had white armed protesters screaming abuse at police because they couldn't get a haircut and the police just stood there

ohnonotgmail

cdeb wrote: »

The point being made to prove systemic racism exists was that police wouldn't dare do to a white man what they did to George Floyd.

So by showing that actually they would and have done, it invalidates the original argument now being made.

Now of course, the deflection is turning to schizophrenia - white schizophrenics are different (because the police obviously knew that when kneeling on him to kill him). You can't win with some people - there has to be an ism somewhere.

it absolutely doesnt. it isnt that they wouldn't dare to do it to a black it is that they do it disproportionately more to those who are not white.

cdeb

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it absolutely doesnt. it isnt that they wouldn't dare to do it to a black it is that they do it disproportionately more to those who are not white.

There is no clear evidence of this.

There is evidence that black people have interaction with the police roughly in line with their crime levels - and that's not racism.

The posters who are using statistics to try make your argument are actually the ones showing this.

Also, the OP was absolutely making the point that they wouldn't dare do it to a white person (which is what I presume you meant). So my post was entirely valid in refuting theirs.

lawrencesummers

Carfacemandog wrote: »

By global scale, I am referring to the rest of the world becoming aware of what is going on in the US, as they have been in Hong Kong over the last year. Australians, Brits, etc seeing their own media being assaulted by American police on live TV doesn't help this one bit.

And this is a protest or riot, not a war. These are the police, not the army. That this needs to be clarified says all it needs to about the American police, and only reiterates concerns that people have been having about their militarisation for the past several years (like even small, rural departments buying ex military vehicles). The police have done an excellent job in proving many of those fears correct, and advertising exactly why for the whole world to see.

Your the one that brought up war crimes.

ELM327

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and yet we had white armed protesters screaming abuse at police because they couldn't get a haircut and the police just stood there

It's funny how a) you find it perfectly acceptable to dismiss their protest as silly based on them being white and b) despite the protesters being armed, no riots or violence happened.


Compare that to recent thuggery.

cdeb wrote: »

There is no clear evidence of this.

There is evidence that black people have interaction with the police roughly in line with their crime levels - and that's not racism.

The posters who are using statistics to try make your argument are actually the ones showing this.

Careful now, you havent found an ism for him there.
Don't you know, he's woke!

circadian

Some of the posters in this thread should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. Antagonising purely to score points and trying to obfuscate the discussion.

hetuzozaho

ELM327 wrote: »

Compare that to recent thuggery.

Hear! Hear!

ohnonotgmail

ELM327 wrote: »

It's funny how a) you find it perfectly acceptable to dismiss their protest as silly based on them being white and b) despite the protesters being armed, no riots or violence happened.

just for once you might actually attempt to follow a thread. this is what i responded to

Being excessively confrontational and abusing police is not standing up for your rights.

when you are an armed white man you can scream abuse at the police without repercussion. a 75 year old man walks up to the police and gets put in hospital. you dont seem to have an issue with this.

Your Airbag

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and yet we had white armed protesters screaming abuse at police because they couldn't get a haircut and the police just stood there

This kind of misrepresentation is infuriating. So you fell the need to categories the protestors by skin color, whether the have guns or not and the signs they hold up. Yes because thats exactly what the situation needs right now, more racial categorization.

I've seen pictures of people sarcastically holding up those haircut signs, its a common thing in the midst of protests, there will always be someone who's made a comedic sign like "im so angry I made a sign".

Those protestors also gathered at government building and did not loot or riot and as much as I disagree with their argument about lockdown being over authoritarian I have no qualms about there peaceful protests. You can be sure if they were firing or looting the cops would have had no choice but to react.

ELM327

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Hear! Hear!

So, we have one white man shouting? No problem. If these thugs stopped looting and just shouted, they would be treated the same as that white man was. Peaceful.




And the second photo, the man "attacked" was white. Is that still racist? I can't keep up with these lefty woke people anymore. I thought you couldnt be racist against white people.