George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Carfacemandog

2u2me wrote: »

What happened exactly, some people disagreed with anthem protest? How does this lead to what we are seeing today.

An NFL player called Colin Kaepernick began kneeling at the anthem they play before games protesting injustices and basically a lot of what these riots kickstarted over in the US (personally I think they're more about general police brutality at this point with the attacks on journalists, medics and the elderly getting a lot of coverage), and some players followed suit. He had sat for a game or two first. but an ex military teammate told him that's against something to do with the military, and to kneel instead, which he did.

Trump lost his absolute mind over it and it had a complete Streisand effect where even more players began kneeling and it became a talking point before kickoff at every game. All across the likes of FOX News the kneeling players essentially became the biggest villains in America, painted as traitors and scum.

Trump supporters began threatening to boycott the league over players kneeling for the anthem (despite peaceful protest being a 1st amendment right), and a few team owners said some really stupid things like "inmates running the asylum" and eventually, the league banned its players from this form of peaceful protest.

Kaepernick, a good but not great player, basically got blacklisted by the league and never played against despite being only 29 when it happened (quarterbacks are like goalies in football, rg they play deep into their 30s).

Quick rundown video here with his words on it

Tell me how

jibber5000 wrote: »

But players continued to kneel during the national anthem including this year?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jul/29/eric-reid-national-anthem-protest-knee-nfl-colin-kaepernick

So they didn't effectively ban players protesting did they?

NFL bans on-field kneeling during the national anthem

The National Football League will require all players to “stand and show respect for the flag” during the national anthem before games — or else stay off the field until the song ends.

The new policy was adopted Wednesday, the league’s commissioner, Roger Goodell, said in a statement. Players who refuse to stand for the anthem “may stay in the locker room or in a similar location off the field until after the Anthem has been performed,” Goodell said.

Tell me how

2u2me wrote: »

Prime example of how the liberal media ignore context to stoke their race-baiting agenda.

You might want to check in with reality now and then.

jibber5000

Tell me how wrote: »

NFL bans on-field kneeling during the national anthem

But it wasn't enforced. Players kept kneeling without any repercussions.

Tell me how

jibber5000 wrote: »

But it wasn't enforced. Players kept kneeling without any repercussions.

Colin Kaepernick says hello.

2u2me

Carfacemandog wrote: »

but an ex military teammate told him that's against something to do with the military, and to kneel instead, which he did.

Trump lost his absolute mind over it and it had a complete Streisand effect [...]All across the likes of FOX News the kneeling players essentially became the biggest villains in America, painted as traitors and scum.

Trump supporters began threatening to boycott the league over players kneeling for the anthem.

Kaepernick, a good but not great player, basically got blacklisted by the league and never played against despite being only 29 when it happened (quarterbacks are like goalies in football, rg they play deep into their 30s).

Still I don't see how all of that leads to what we see today. People are allowed an opinion on things, I agree perhaps the president should have been impartial.
Fox news certainly you wouldn't expect any less really.

Some people maybe didn't want politics in sports.
Some people maybe didn't agree with Kaepernick, that "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color."

Some people just don't agree that the country is oppressing black people anymore than anyone else.

Tell me how wrote: »

NFL bans on-field kneeling during the national anthem

You're article was one year earlier then the article you're quoting. Since then this has happened.

[Eric] Reid continued to kneel during the anthem last season without incident, and the Panthers’ owner, David Tepper, said the “world didn’t end” when Reid protested.

Carfacemandog

jibber5000 wrote: »

But players continued to kneel during the national anthem including this year?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jul/29/eric-reid-national-anthem-protest-knee-nfl-colin-kaepernick

So they didn't effectively ban players protesting did they?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/23/nfl-bans-on-field-kneeling-during-the-national-anthem.html

They very explicitly banned it in 2018, with penalties of fines the teams of any players that did. Eric Reid is now unemployed at 28 years of age.

Only two other players in the NFL have kneeled regularly since the ban, though I'd imagine that number will go up significantly whenever the new season gets goingcon the back of the last few weeks events and this announcement, which seems to imply the ban is being lifted.

The NFL settled out of court with Colin Kaepernick last year for his lawsuit against them about collision between the teams in the league to not employ him due to his protests.

jibber5000

Carfacemandog wrote: »

An NFL player called Colin Kaepernick began kneeling at the anthem they play before games protesting injustices and basically a lot of what these riots kickstarted over in the US (personally I think they're more about general police brutality at this point with the attacks on journalists, medics and the elderly getting a lot of coverage), and some players followed suit. He had sat for a game or two first. but an ex military teammate told him that's against something to do with the military, and to kneel instead, which he did.

Trump lost his absolute mind over it and it had a complete Streisand effect where even more players began kneeling and it became a talking point before kickoff at every game. All across the likes of FOX News the kneeling players essentially became the biggest villains in America, painted as traitors and scum.

Trump supporters began threatening to boycott the league over players kneeling for the anthem (despite peaceful protest being a 1st amendment right), and a few team owners said some really stupid things like "inmates running the asylum" and eventually, the league banned its players from this form of peaceful protest.

Kaepernick, a good but not great player, basically got blacklisted by the league and never played against despite being only 29 when it happened (quarterbacks are like goalies in football, rg they play deep into their 30s).

Quick rundown video here with his words on it

Kaepernick would still be playing in the league if he was good enough to be a starting quarterback. His last year in the league he was really poor and got benched. In fact he wasn't bad that year he was awful.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2584618-colin-kaepernick-reportedly-benched-blaine-gabbert-to-start-vs-falcons.amp.html

Plus the type of QB that he is ie he could only play in a dual threat offense, is only run by about 1/3 of the teams in the league. So the pool of teams that could actually sign him was low.

Much like Tim Tebow, a Christian QB who brought intense media attention with him, many teams felt the publicity wasn't worth it for a back up player.

2u2me

I have no idea about American football, but I know other team sports. When a player starts thinking anything is greater than his team it never goes well. Managers, owners other team mates all want focus on the game ahead.

Even the best players are often left out of teams when they're attention turns elsewhere. I'm not saying that happened here but it's possible.

Tell me how

Not to mind that Josh Reddick celebrated the Astros Baseball series win in this manner.

https://twitter.com/craigab1/status/917830183192875008

The fact that that seems to contravene the US Flag code was conveniently overlooked.

§8. Respect for flag

No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

jibber5000

Carfacemandog wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/23/nfl-bans-on-field-kneeling-during-the-national-anthem.html

They very explicitly banned it in 2018, with penalties of fines the teams of any players that did. Eric Reid is now unemployed at 28 years of age.

Only two other players in the NFL have kneeled regularly since the ban, though I'd imagine that number will go up significantly whenever the new season gets goingcon the back of the last few weeks events and this announcement, which seems to imply the ban is being lifted.

The NFL settled out of court with Colin Kaepernick last year for his lawsuit against them about collision between the teams in the league to not employ him due to his protests.

You're implying Eric Reid was cut because of his kneeling protest. That's incorrect.

He's unemployed as he was on a huge contract with a team who are essentially aiming to lose this year.

jibber5000

2u2me wrote: »

I have no idea about American football, but I know other team sports. When a player starts thinking anything is greater than his team it never goes well. Managers, owners other team mates all want focus on the game ahead.

Even the best players are often left out of teams when they're attention turns elsewhere. I'm not saying that happened here but it's possible.

If he was a top 20 QB in the NFL he would still be playing.

Ironic thing is he made far more money from Nike than he ever would have in the NFL.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/money.com/colin-kaepernick-nike-deal/%3famp=true

Carfacemandog

jibber5000 wrote: »

Kaepernick would still be playing in the league if he was good enough to be a starting quarterback. His last year in the league he was really poor and got benched. In fact he wasn't bad that year he was awful.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2584618-colin-kaepernick-reportedly-benched-blaine-gabbert-to-start-vs-falcons.amp.html

Plus the type of QB that he is ie he could only play in a dual threat offense, is only run by about 1/3 of the teams in the league. So the pool of teams that could actually sign him was low.

Much like Tim Tebow, a Christian QB who brought intense media attention with him, many teams felt the publicity wasn't worth it for a back up player.

You link is from the year before kaepernick got benched or started kneeling. In 2016 his numbers were pretty good, a 90 passer rating and the second most scrambling yards in the entire league despite playing only 2/3rds of the season in a terrible team with Quinten Patton and Jeremy Keeley as his main two receivers, completely outperforming the other quarterback on that San Francisco team (who had a 71 passer rating).

The number of teams who run system dependent on a pocket qb is also lower than that these days, and there are plenty of examples like green bay when they had Brett hundley playing woefully for half the year, or Kizer in Cleveland clearly not being anywhere near ready when they went 0-16. Both coaching staffs lost their jobs because of how bad their quarterback okay was those years, and there is no question kaepernick would have outperformed both by a distance while giving experience that the other two simply didn't have.

The NFL settled out of court with him for his collusion lawsuit against them for good reason.

Tell me how

jibber5000 wrote: »

If he was a top 20 QB in the NFL he would still be playing.

Ironic thing is he made far more money from Nike than he ever would have in the NFL.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/money.com/colin-kaepernick-nike-deal/%3famp=true

He's ranked 24th on the list of quarterbacks on passer rating. Of all time.

2u2me

Tell me how wrote: »

He's ranked 24th on the list of quarterbacks on passer rating. Of all time.

I read he had 3 surgeries going into his last season.

Michael Owen won the Ballon D'or yet see what injuries did to him.

Kaepernick was coming off three surgeries entering the 2016 season, needing operations on his thumb and knee in addition to the season-ending shoulder procedure.

jibber5000

Carfacemandog wrote: »

You link is from the year before kaepernick got benched or started kneeling. In 2016 his numbers were pretty good, a 90 passer rating and the second most scrambling yards in the entire league despite playing only 2/3rds of the season in a terrible team with Quinten Patton and Jeremy Keeley as his main two receivers, completely outperforming the other quarterback on that San Francisco team (who had a 71 passer rating).

The number of teams who run system dependent on a pocket qb is also lower than that these days, and there are plenty of examples like green bay when they had Brett hundley playing woefully for half the year, or Kizer in Cleveland clearly not being anywhere near ready when they went 0-16. Both coaching staffs lost their jobs because of how bad their quarterback okay was those years, and there is no question kaepernick would have outperformed both by a distance while giving experience that the other two simply didn't have.

The NFL settled out of court with him for his collusion lawsuit against them for good reason.

Both examples were players on rookie contracts earning far less money than Kaepernick would have commanded.

And while his numbers in 2016 were ok, most of them came in carbage time. The teams record with Kaepernick was 1-11.

Carfacemandog

jibber5000 wrote: »

You're implying Eric Reid was cut because of his kneeling protest. That's incorrect.

He's unemployed as he was on a huge contract with a team who are essentially aiming to lose this year.

He wasn't on a huge contract. He was set to make 8mn this year, while cutting him cost them 5mn. It was a 3yr deal, worth 22mn and he made 9.5mn last year, so next year was only 4.5mn which wouldn't even be a top 30 salary among safeties in the league this year, and at 28 he's hardly old. [url]Https://overthecap.com/player/eric-reid/2199/[/url]

And I've not heard much about teams looking to sign him even though free agency opened two ans a half months ago, though Goodells statement tonight may well change that.

jibber5000

Tell me how wrote: »

He's ranked 24th on the list of quarterbacks on passer rating. Of all time.

That list is hilarious. Marcus Mariotta number 20, Matt Schaub number 21.

Did you actually think that means he's the 24th best QB of all time?!

Tell me how

2u2me wrote: »

I read he had 3 surgeries going into his last season.

Michael Owen won the Ballon D'or yet see what injuries did to him.

The top ranked quarterback, Aaron Rodgers has had a number of surgeries, including 13 screws inserted for a collarbone injury.

Drew Brees had surgery on his thumb also and on his throwing arm shoulder.

Tom Brady has had several surgeries including cruciate ligament and foot.

You weren't lying when you said you know nothing about American Football.

Tell me how

jibber5000 wrote: »

That list is hilarious. Marcus Mariotta number 20, Matt Schaub number 21.

Did you actually think that means he's the 24th best QB of all time?!

No, it means he is ranked 24th based on passer rating......

He is easily top 20 of the current crop. Not to mind most teams usually have 3 quarterbacks on their roster. You think he isn't one of the top 96 currently available?

Tokyo

Edgware wrote: »

Personally I don't give a ****e what happens 3000 miles away

Mod: Great - then you don't need access to this thread. Don't post here again.

2u2me

Tell me how wrote: »

The top ranked quarterback, Aaron Rodgers has had a number of surgeries, including 13 screws inserted for a collarbone injury.

Drew Brees had surgery on his thumb also and on his throwing arm shoulder.

Tom Brady has had several surgeries including cruciate ligament and foot.

You weren't lying when you said you know nothing about American Football.

I don't see an argument in there.

jibber5000

Carfacemandog wrote: »

He wasn't on a huge contract. He was set to make 8mn this year, while cutting him cost them 5mn. It was a 3yr deal, worth 22mn and he made 9.5mn last year, so next year was only 4.5mn which wouldn't even be a top 30 salary among safeties in the league this year, and at 28 he's hardly old. [url]Https://overthecap.com/player/eric-reid/2199/[/url]

And I've not heard much about teams looking to sign him even though free agency opened two ans a half months ago, though Goodells statement tonight may well change that.

Carolina is actively tanking this year.

I'm not sure another team would want to sign him for 8 million. And at 28 he'd be amongst the oldest players at the position.

The inference was he was unemployed due to the protest when Carolina signed him after he'd been kneeling for two years.

Carfacemandog

jibber5000 wrote: »

Both examples were players on rookie contracts earning far less money than Kaepernick would have commanded.

And while his numbers in 2016 were ok, most of them came in carbage time. The teams record with Kaepernick was 1-11.

They weren't in garbage time. And both of those teams had ample cap space, the browns especially.

Green Bay had 16mn - https://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/40537/packers-shell-out-bonus-money-to-lane-taylor-ahmad-brooks

Cleveland with barely a star player to speak of I would not have been surprised to see at double that number.

Tokyo

Mod: jibber5000 - your posts are about as off topic as they can get. Next derailment will earn a threadban.

jibber5000

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I doubt he's looking for 8mn either, and 28 is not amongst the oldest at his position - 10 of the top 25 paid strong safeties in the league are 28 or older.

Either way we're straying far off topic here with talk of contracts etc. The facts are that the NFL settled with kaepernick over collusion to keep him out of the league, that they did ban players from kneeling, but that Goodell appears to have lifted that today and to have apologised to the players doing so and for not listening to them sooner.

There has to be a sense of bittersweetness to it for kaepernick given what things have escalated to since, but it's good to see him and all those that chosen to protest peacefully being vindicated with this announcement.

I doubt he's too bittersweet with all that Nike money harvested from the sweatshops in China rolling in.

Tell me how

jibber5000 wrote: »

I doubt he's too bittersweet with all that Nike money harvested from the sweatshops in China rolling in.

That's where Ivanka's products were sourced from wasn't it?

2u2me

So the narrative with Kaepernick just isn't as cut and dry as the media are making out (the activist media).

It's far from "they kicked out a star player because he protested" which is what they seem to be making out.

Let's agree to disagree here?

Surely there is at this moment in time pressure on the NFL and whoever else to make concessions to these protesors.
The political pressure on them is huge.

Did my best to avoid all this but a friend filled me in some things yesterday.


I barely understand America anymore. Why is there pressure on the NFL if the majority of the players are black?

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Did my best to avoid all this but a friend filled me in some things yesterday.


I barely understand America anymore. Why is there pressure on the NFL if the majority of the players are black?

Pressure is on the NFL because they ostracised Kaepernick for trying to have a peaceful protest to highlight police brutality.

Yes, most of the players are black.

These are the owners.