George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Tell me how

MOH wrote: »

You admire people who to go to a mass gathering in the middle of a pandemic?
Because that's the big difference between this and your previous examples.

I'd have no problem otherwise, I'd quite possibly be there.

But anyone doing this in the current circumstances is just an irresponsible idiot.

This is your first post on the thread. Given that but for the pandemic, you would be on the streets also, I'm looking forward to you continuing to contribute here and arguing against those who suggest there is no merit to the protests.

Also, just to be clear, what I said was I admire the mindset of those who want to make the world a better place. I too think that protesting during the pandemic is not ideal given the dangers associated but I can also see that in the US, where I am currently living, there has long been demands from many, including the President, saying that any sort of lockdown had to stop.

weldoninhio

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Despite the fact that the guy clearly wants to keep a distance between himself and her, stating "please don't come close to me" at the start of thed video, what I asked was if you think she was correct to call the cops and tell them "there is an African American man threatening my life"?



And so I never said what you claimed. Nobody stopped the anti protesters from threatening to boycott, as is their first amendment right. The league did however stop the players from protesting, as in kind is their first amendment right.

People who were opposed to this peaceful protesting from the players that over the last two weeks have made claims along the line of "why can't they just protest peacefully, I would be perfectly ok with that" do however deserve to be called out on their hypocrisy as they very much did have an issue with peaceful protesting when that is all it was.

The NFL seem to be very aware of how bad the optics on this are in hindsight with all that has transpired in the past fortnight, hence their official apology yesterday.

If someone calls my dog over and says “I’m gonna do something that you are not gonna like”, I’m taking that as a threat.

As posted earlier, the NFL stopped no one. People continued to protest without sanction.

Carfacemandog

Tell me how wrote: »

Blah, blah, blah........

Same thing said about people protesting for climate action, and previously equal rights for homosexuals and women.

Some people want to see a positive world, they show their support for that ideal.

Some just scoff and laugh. I know which mindset I admire.

To be fair we don't have the same types of issues as the US in terms of policing, and while showing support is usually fine, we - entirely unlike the US - have had a very disciplined and unified response as a nation and have stuck to it. Undoing all of that work would be a slap in the face to rveryoen who has adhered, especially the more vulnerable among us.

After the lockdown protests in the US, the government openly themselves pushing for them, and the usual crowd agreeing with them by default, followed by many states reopening quite a bit, I don't think the same criticisms apply to the US protesters over this, but in Ireland I definitely think they are entirely uncalled for under these circumstances if they can't maintain social distancing in doing so.

ohnonotgmail

People should protest peacefully. No, not like that, in a way that i approve of.

MOH

Tell me how wrote: »

This is your first post on the thread. Given that but for the pandemic, you would be on the streets also, I'm looking forward to you continuing to contribute here and arguing against those who suggest there is no merit to the protests.

Also, just to be clear, what I said was I admire the mindset of those who want to make the world a better place. I too think that protesting during the pandemic is not ideal given the dangers associated but I can also see that in the US, where I am currently living, there has long been demands from many, including the President, saying that any sort of lockdown had to stop.

How is the fact that it's my first post on the thread relevant to anything?
And the rest of your point is equally nonsensical, because I fully believe there is absolutely no merit to any of the utterly moronic protests currently taking place here.

There are idiots wandering around Dublin holding "I can't breathe" signs. You know who else can't breathe? Someone with Covid-19 on a ventilator. You know what makes those cases less likely to happen? Not congregating with thousands of people in the middle of a pandemic.

Standing outside the US embassy in Dublin is not going to a save a single life in the United States. Not one. But it seriously risks lives here.

If any of these people actually cared about making the world a better place instead of being seen out talking about it, we'd all be a lot better off.

Rjd2

joe40 wrote: »

Much as this pains me to say, I actually agree with you for once. (Lol)

With our Coronavirus restrictions in place I don't think demonstration in Ireland should go ahead. There are other ways to show support.

The coronavirus does kill as well.

Other than that I would support their gesture in different times. Easy to be cynical.

Its highly likely that these rallies will produce a spike in infections and at a time when its far from under control that's a serious issue.

Their will be some who say

" its admirable that people are risking their health to protest"......

.to an extent yeah, but its far from their own health, if they get the illness at a rally then God help that community they go back to especially if they live with parents or even worse Grandparents.

Genuinely how many people will isolate for 2 weeks after been at these rallies?

joe40

jibber5000 wrote: »

I did read it. Here's a few articles for you to read if you've no clue of what Castro means to the people of Miami. Educate yourself.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/11/27/us/nfl-colin-kaepernick-castro-feud/index.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/26/colin-kaepernick-will-get-rude-reception-in-miami/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2017/08/06/colin-kaepernicks-fidel-castro-comments-made-miami-a-longshot-destination/amp/

A lot of the Cubans in Miami would have been the rich Cubans, supporters of Batista. My history is vague but they didn't cover themselves in glory either.

pjohnson

Rjd2 wrote: »

Its highly likely that these rallies will produce a spike in infections and at a time when its far from under control that's a serious issue.

Their will be some who say

" its admirable that people are risking their health to protest"......

.to an extent yeah, but its far from their own health, if they get the illness at a rally then God help that community they go back to especially if they live with parents or even worse Grandparents.

Genuinely how many people will isolate for 2 weeks after been at these rallies?

Doing this now only damages their own cause.


I mean you have to assume people with underlying conditions didnt attend plus anyone living with anyone vulnerable didnt attend. Either limited its numbers and damaged the protests impacts. Or they recklessly did the stupidest thing possible during a pandemic that will cause an immediate risk to peoples health.

Tell me how

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I have no problem protesting but the timing is wrong

Schools are closed
Creches are closed
Pubs are closed
Funerals are limited
We are meant to be social distancing
Etc

You mention climate change, you can't "believe the science" for one thing and disregard to for another. You believe in following scientific advice or you don't

Scientific advice, all the way.

But here in the US many have already argued from the President down that the lockdown had to finish. So I don't buy the argument from the same people that there shouldn't be protests because of Covid-19.

If I was in Dublin would I be protesting? No, but I still admire the mindset of those who want a better fairer world.

2u2me

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

People should protest peacefully. No, not like that, in a way that i approve of.

A bit of humour for everyone.

YFlyer

Cody montana wrote: »

I wonder will 1 million turn up to protest in Washington today?

DC police trying to say on average 5000 protesters the past few days. Must be missing a zero.

jibber5000

joe40 wrote: »

A lot of the Cubans in Miami would have been the rich Cubans, supporters of Batista. My history is vague but they didn't cover themselves in glory either.

There are 700,000 Cubans in Miami. Sceptical that they were all the "rich" cubans

YFlyer

smartz wrote: »

I assume the officer can still be found guilty of 3rd degree murder even if he is cleared of second degree?

Don't know. Something to do with double jeopardy.

Tell me how

MOH wrote: »

How is the fact that it's my first post on the thread relevant to anything?
And the rest of your point is equally nonsensical, because I fully believe there is absolutely no merit to any of the utterly moronic protests currently taking place here.

There are idiots wandering around Dublin holding "I can't breathe" signs. You know who else can't breathe? Someone with Covid-19 on a ventilator. You know what makes those cases less likely to happen? Not congregating with thousands of people in the middle of a pandemic.

Standing outside the US embassy in Dublin is not going to a save a single life in the United States. Not one. But it seriously risks lives here.

If any of these people actually cared about making the world a better place instead of being seen out talking about it, we'd all be a lot better off.

I'd sooner people who talked about wanting a better world than people flat out disagreeing that it is necessary.

Not ideal, but a step in the right direction. What's the alternative?

Also, your dismissal of the impact a protest has is both shortsighted and has been used to undermine protests probably since the first arch started.

Why do you think massive corporations are now releasing messages of support for the cause? Because they see the groundswell of support which their market is expressing for it. I'm not gullible enough to think that that is anything order than a business strategy but the basis for their strategy is because of seeing people hold such 'I can't breathe' signs in places worldwide.

Carfacemandog

weldoninhio wrote: »

As posted earlier, the NFL stopped no one. People continued to protest without sanction.

As posted earlier, the nfl literally inctroduced a rule not allowing players to protest in the field.

Turns out the ACLU may have had a point.

https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/999339424545681411

If someone calls my dog over and says “I’m gonna do something that you are not gonna like”, I’m taking that as a threat.

You would consider that a threat on your life, despite the guy asking you to keep your distance from him, as this woman was claiming to the police?

Sam Quentin

I feel so boring and old and not hip.. I wish I could find something to protest about, something to bring me out on the streets, there is one thing...I always said if they ever ban spuds then I will go up to Dail Eireann and make my feelings known....I suppose that still doesn't make me cool or hip!? Because deep down I know they'll never ban spuds....mmmmmmmm I love spuds

y0ssar1an22

Tell me how wrote: »

Scientific advice, all the way.

But here in the US many have already argued from the President down that the lockdown had to finish. So I don't buy the argument from the same people that there shouldn't be protests because of Covid-19.

If I was in Dublin would I be protesting? No, but I still admire the mindset of those who want a better fairer world.

i thought it was the opposite. lots of medical people ragging on trump when he wanted to ease restrictions. now with the protests, their tune has changed to say no need for social distancing, go out and protest.
maybe even the medical field in the US has become political?

y0ssar1an22

jibber5000 wrote: »

There are 700,000 Cubans in Miami. Sceptical that they were all the "rich" cubans

i mean, when everything is getting nationalized, its the wealthy who will want to hit the road.

iguana

Big crowds out in Maine yesterday to greet Trump. Maybe not quite as risky as the bigger city protests as Maine is far from the worst hit state. But still such an unbelievable thing to be happening in a pandemic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgcM9Ir6W34

jibber5000

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i thought it was the opposite. lots of medical people ragging on trump when he wanted to ease restrictions. now with the protests, their tune has changed to say no need for social distancing, go out and protest.
maybe even the medical field in the US has become political?

They've lost all credibility.

"University of Washington ID experts now state
Pervasive racism is the paramount public health problem superceding Covid."

https://mobile.twitter.com/mtracey/status/1268936285441359872

jibber5000

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i mean, when everything is getting nationalized, its the wealthy who will want to hit the road.

Getting off the topic but we saw how well that ended up for Cuba

Tell me how

weldoninhio wrote: »

As posted earlier, the NFL stopped no one. People continued to protest without sanction.

The NFL brought in a law prohibiting protesting.

They didn't enforce it but if you think that it stopped no one, can you explain why the numbers who protested before the rule came in versus those who protested after it came in were so different.

Tell me how

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i thought it was the opposite. lots of medical people ragging on trump when he wanted to ease restrictions. now with the protests, their tune has changed to say no need for social distancing, go out and protest.
maybe even the medical field in the US has become political?

Can you point me to where someone from the medical field changed their tune and advocated for protesting?

It save some time if it was someone from a city that hadn't already relaxed restrictions contrary to medical advice.

ziggyman17

[QUOTE=Rjd2;113657937]Its highly likely that these rallies will produce a spike in infections and at a time when its far from under control that's a serious issue.

Their will be some who say

" its admirable that people are risking their health to protest"......

.to an extent yeah, but its far from their own health, if they get the illness at a rally then God help that community they go back to especially if they live with parents or even worse Grandparents.

Genuinely how many people will isolate for 2 weeks after been at these rallies?[/QUOTE]

it is not just that, thousands of people have been burying loved ones and have not had the chance to say a proper goodbye and properly attend their loved ones funerals, I have passed a church in Dublin every week for the last 10 weeks and every time there has been a funeral going on and the majority of people have had to stand outside, while a couple of garda have watched from the side, yet this idiots are out protesting in their 1000's in a time when you are not meant to be in big crowds, one rule for one and another for others,

Rjd2

iguana wrote: »

Big crowds out in Maine yesterday to greet Trump. Maybe not quite as risky as the bigger city protests as Maine is far from the worst hit state. But still such an unbelievable thing to be happening in a pandemic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgcM9Ir6W34

No different level of risk than those protesting police brutality is their?

You are either fine with mass gatherings when it comes to politics or not. The virus does not care about your politics.

Lockdown is over in America anyhow, whether it was for employment, socialising or politics, people have decided enough is enough.

The left and right in America need to stop moralising the other side about it now, because both have encouraged supporters to flout the lockdown rules.

y0ssar1an22

jibber5000 wrote: »

They've lost all credibility.

"University of Washington ID experts now state
Pervasive racism is the paramount public health problem superceding Covid."

https://mobile.twitter.com/mtracey/status/1268936285441359872

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you point me to where someone from the medical field changed their tune and advocated for protesting?

It save some time if it was someone from a city that hadn't already relaxed restrictions contrary to medical advice.

virgin internet not opening any big sites for me for some reason, but will try to give thoughts on both when i can.

smartz

YFlyer wrote: »

Don't know. Something to do with double jeopardy.

Yeah I've heard about that before, but I think that just means he can't be retried separately for a lesser degree if the first instance fails. From what I've read it seems like this second degree murder charge 'supersedes' the other the third degree charge, and that the second degree manslaughter charge is the only 'back up charge'.

If that's the case it seems like a huge risk, given how difficult it's going to be to prove that he intended to kill and wasn't just 'depraved' and 'reckless'.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you point me to where someone from the medical field changed their tune and advocated for protesting?

It save some time if it was someone from a city that hadn't already relaxed restrictions contrary to medical advice.

There was a letter supposedly signed by 1200 "medical professionals" to this end, it was posted in this thread yesterday evening.

y0ssar1an22

smartz wrote: »

Yeah I've heard about that before, but I think that just means he can't be retried separately for a lesser degree if the first instance fails. From what I've read it seems like this second degree murder charge 'supersedes' the other the third degree charge, and that the second degree manslaughter charge is the only 'back up charge'.

If that's the case it seems like a huge risk, given how difficult it's going to be to prove that he intended to kill and wasn't just 'depraved' and 'reckless'.

that vid i linked earlier, you can be charged on multiple degrees of homicide. but if found not guilty in the 2nd degree, its more likely you will also be found not guilty in the 3rd degree as well.

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

There was a letter supposedly signed by 1200 "medical professionals" to this end, it was posted in this thread yesterday evening.

So, as expected, it was in the context of adhering to best practice in wearing masks while protesting, and not just using Covid-19 as an excuse to say the protests shouldn't happen.

The letter focuses on health guidance for protestors and law enforcement, such as wearing masks, advocating to not hold people who are arrested in close proximity and opposing the use of tear gas for health reasons.

"Staying at home, social distancing, and public masking are effective at minimizing the spread of COVID-19. To the extent possible, we support the application of these public health best practices during demonstrations that call attention to the pervasive lethal force of white supremacy," the letter says.
"However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from demonstrators' ability to gather and demand change. This should not be confused with a permissive stance on all gatherings, particularly protests against stay-home orders."