George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

y0ssar1an22

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

It's a mute point on this thread, I don't condone violence to a point, that's for another thread!

This thread is about or was about police brutality, it then turned into a steaming sh!t show of near everything. This clip that was posted was from a white supremacist Twitter account and the poster who posted it I viewed it as stirring ****, I'm still not fully convinced, I accept the recent pic posted that there is a bit more merit that it is black on white ie racism, it's disgusting! I hope they're found, and prosecuted under racism laws as well as the physical violence they inflicted.

maybe i'm naive, i dont know. why cant we all say; **** racism, it doesn't exist; and charge everything on its merits. think of every color combo, irrelevant. the crime is the crime, is the crime.

*my internet is ****ed, so i hope that is the correct clip. basically Morgan saying stop talking about it.

nullzero

extra gravy wrote: »

When you provide a video with the full account of what happened, I'll answer then. If the person on the ground threw the first punch or kick, was the other person entitled to defend himself? You don't know what happened and neither do I so no point continuing this discussion any further.

It's not incumbent upon me to provide you with anything.

In Irish law you are allowed to defend yourself using reasonable force. Beating somebody to the ground and kicking them repeatedly while recording the incident is not in any way using reasonable force.

You can't answer a simple question because you know the answer will contradict what you've been saying so far or make you look unreasonable.

nullzero

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

It's a mute point on this thread, I don't condone violence to a point, that's for another thread!

This thread is about or was about police brutality, it then turned into a steaming sh!t show of near everything. This clip that was posted was from a white supremacist Twitter account and the poster who posted it I viewed it as stirring ****, I'm still not fully convinced, I accept the recent pic posted that there is a bit more merit that it is black on white ie racism, it's disgusting! I hope they're found, and prosecuted under racism laws as well as the physical violence they inflicted.

I disagree that it is a moot point for this thread as this type of violence has been triggered directly by the events in America.

Ireland isn't America, we should not be accepting the importation of American problems into our society where they do not exist.

extra gravy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why no apology? Are you not sorry that you are prejudiced?

Who exactly am I prejudiced against?

xtal191

https://twitter.com/Dix5a/status/1269371899018174468

2u2me

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Is this the video?
3 strong kicks at the start very clear with the third one defiantly strong enough to cause a concussion. After that we can only hear and not see what's happening.

The only kick that looks real to me is the third one. about 3 seconds in. The picture is just too grainy, almost deliberately so.

He kicks him with his intstep, most people I've seen kicking people on the ground usually use a toe-peg.
I can't get a good still of his foot hitting his head.

extra gravy

nullzero wrote: »

It's not incumbent upon me to provide you with anything.

In Irish law you are allowed to defend yourself using reasonable force. Beating somebody to the ground and kicking them repeatedly while recording the incident is not in any way using reasonable force.

You can't answer a simple question because you know the answer will contradict what you've been saying so far or make you look unreasonable.

You're asking me to answer a question on an incident based on a 14 second grainy unverified video, I've no intention of doing so. If you're happy to form your opinion based on that, then off with you.

2u2me

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

FYP

MeMen2_MoRi_

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i dont want to click into that - thats prob some of the problem. i dont like seeing cruelty.

i saw one vid where the arrestee ( what do you call someone being arrested), had his hands up over his head, and a cop took a flying kick into his back knocking the man over, where he was pounced on by a 2 more. this in in the last 2 months.

this is the only vid i could find of it, so apologies for that:

is it a case that a lot of the people that go into the police force in the US are trigger happy? i'm trying to think of a comparison. the only one i can think of is an addict (drugs,gambling, alcohol). they go to the casino to fulfill their gambling needs (gamble a bit) rather than gambling away their own house (kill someone) - after reading this before posting, its prob a senseless point :pac:

now that i think, i wonder how many cops are ex military, or people who failed to get into the military. I suspect a good portion. Like, if youre not sound to defend the country from foreign invaders, no way should you be allowed police the citizens.

The majority of cops, imo are good ones. The problem is that the bad ones get too many opportunities to stay within the police force. I posted recently actions that are being looked at with regards this, police officers are viewed as doctors in that they are licensed. You lose that license you can't work in law inforcement within that state.
When cops lose their jobs for being cnuts, they can skip to the next city/state and carry on, this is a big wrong iny book.

2u2me

xtal191 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Dix5a/status/1269371899018174468

NY is in big trouble. Who would want to open a business in this atmosphere? Or resupply one that has been looted.
Amazon are the big winners here; and they're supporting the protests.

On Wednesday, Amazon announced it would donate $10 million to social justice organizations. Along with that, the company issued a tweet that said the “inequitable and brutal treatment of Black people” must stop.

ACitizenErased

Do not bring the Carrigaline incident tonight into this discussion. Nothing to do with race. Source: I live there.

MeMen2_MoRi_

nullzero wrote: »

I disagree that it is a moot point for this thread as this type of violence has been triggered directly by the events in America.

Ireland isn't America, we should not be accepting the importation of American problems into our society where they do not exist.

Logic is failing here, is this a problem that has been caused by what is going on in the US or is it an isolated incident that doesn't need to be in this thread about US problems?

Ireland is or is heading towards a very multicultural society, going by the Twitter handle from which this clip has come from, racism in this little green Island will be an issue going forward. It may not be now, going forward with all the hate filled nonsense people are ingesting and passing on to their kids it will get worse if it's not stopped.

nullzero

extra gravy wrote: »

You're asking me to answer a question on an incident based on a 14 second grainy unverified video, I've no intention of doing so. If you're happy to form your opinion based on that, then off with you.

I can form the opinion that violent assault is illegal and immoral.

You have no intention of being anything other than obtuse, condescending and dismissive.

The question is simple and so is the answer, you know this to be the case.

shaveAbullock

After some of the videos I've seen recently I'll be avoiding anyone who lives in Ireland but has a London accent.

nullzero

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Logic is failing here, is this a problem that has been caused by what is going on in the US or is it an isolated incident that doesn't need to be in this thread about US problems?

Ireland is or is heading towards a very multicultural society, going by the Twitter handle from which this clip has come from, racism in this little green Island will be an issue going forward. It may not be now, going forward with all the hate filled nonsense people are ingesting and passing on to their kids it will get worse if it's not stopped.

Logic is failing here?
Where do you get off making a statement like that?
Racism has always existed here, it didn't just materialise recently. The people who hold these views are in an extreme minority and they are not tolerated in this country and never have been.

extra gravy

nullzero wrote: »

I can form the opinion that violent assault is illegal and immoral.

You have no intention of being anything other than obtuse, condescending and dismissive.

The question is simple and so is the answer, you know this to be the case.

You calling someone else condescending is a bit rich after you've been preaching from your high horse for the last hour. It hasn't been confirmed that an assault even took place. What's to say it wasn't staged? You can't assert anything based on that clip. That's why I prefer actual evidence over unverified videos and hearsay.

JJayoo

Remember when everything was about the climate and it was the most important thing and the greatest threat to humanity....and now no one gives a toss....I'm assuming the climate is all fixed

MeMen2_MoRi_

nullzero wrote: »

Logic is failing here?
Where do you get off making a statement like that?
Racism has always existed here, it didn't just materialise recently. The people who hold these views are in an extreme minority and they are not tolerated in this country and never have been.

If you don't see your fallacy in your last post to me I'm not going to help you.

The two Twitter handles that are posting about this clip are in the tens of thousands, tens of thousands of people start having children and teaching their kids their views on things you will quickly be having hundreds of thousands or millions of people having the view that racism is okay on this very small island, IT'S NOT!

Tell me how

JJayoo wrote: »

Remember when everything was about the climate and it was the most important thing and the greatest threat to humanity....and now no one gives a toss....I'm assuming the climate is all fixed

Real life doesn't wait for one thing to finish before the next starts.

Climate issue is still there, and the clock is still ticking.

nullzero

extra gravy wrote: »

You calling someone else condescending is a bit rich after you've been preaching from your high horse for the last hour. It hasn't been confirmed that an assault even took place. What's to say it wasn't staged? You can't assert anything based on that clip. That's why I prefer actual evidence over unverified videos and hearsay.

Preaching is usually done from a pulpit not a high horse, but that's neither here nor there. Your message to me was "off you go" which is dismissive in the extreme.

I am taking the video on its merits, that's all I can do right now until it is verified or deemed to be staged.

So taking it at face value the actions recorded are illegal and should not be tolerated in a civilised society. This is self evident. You cannot even accept that.
Were the ethnicities reversed in this video would you be suggesting it was staged?

MeMen2_MoRi_

@nullzero the clip we are talking about, for me is violence among teenagers, it happens in every village/town/city throughout this island. Is it okay? No, the context under which it happens should be the talking point. The context which it was posted in this thread was blacks beating up a white kid, the context now is white kid posted bullsh!t on social media and a black kid and a white kid went and beat him up..

nullzero

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

If you don't see your fallacy in your last post to me I'm not going to help you.

The two Twitter handles that are posting about this clip are in the tens of thousands, tens of thousands of people start having children and teaching their kids their views on things you will quickly be having hundreds of thousands or millions of people having the view that racism is okay on this very small island, IT'S NOT!

Are you suggesting that Ireland has a problem with racism that comparable with America or the United Kingdom?

Show me the Irish equivalent of the KKK or EDL. They don't exist. Sure small groups of people have ridiculous ideologies but this country is a tolerant place for anybody to live. Sensationalist nonsense like you are putting forward is where logic is breaking down here, there's your logical fallacy.

nullzero

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

@nullzero the clip we are talking about, for me is violence among teenagers, it happens in every village/town/city throughout this island. Is it okay? No, the context under which it happens should be the talking point. The context which it was posted in this thread was blacks beating up a white kid, the context now is white kid posted bullsh!t on social media and a black kid and a white kid went and beat him up..

The suggestion that these youths were justified in their actions because their victim posted "bullish!t" on social media legitimises their violence?

MeMen2_MoRi_

nullzero wrote: »

Are you suggesting that Ireland has a problem with racism that comparable with America or the United Kingdom?

Show me the Irish equivalent of the KKK or EDL. They don't exist. Sure small groups of people have ridiculous ideologies but this country is a tolerant place for anybody to live. Sensationalist nonsense like you are putting forward is where logic is breaking down here, there's your logical fallacy.

I've pointed you towards two Twitter posts on this thread that have thousands/tens of thousands following!!! Open your eyes.

We've gone past the point of good discourse, think it's best we leave it here. We disagree, don't think there's anything I can say that can find a middle ground with you.

MeMen2_MoRi_

nullzero wrote: »

The suggestion that these youths were justified in their actions because their victim posted "bullish!t" on social media legitimises their violence?

Don't put words in my mouth!!! You are stooping now FFS catch a grip yourself.

nullzero

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth!!! You are stooping now FFS catch a grip yourself.

What was your point then?

y0ssar1an22

Tell me how wrote: »

Real life doesn't wait for one thing to finish before the next starts.

Climate issue is still there, and the clock is still ticking.

the beauty of the human race is, we do. it seems (for the most part), we can only focus on 1 issue at a time. whatever's in vogue.

i suppose the students are off the clock now cos they're not meant to be in school. who wants to protest on their own time?

guess thats why the water protests were successful. everyone else was working.

anyway, thats off topic.

the people involved have been charged adequately. what more do the protesters want?

nullzero

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

I've pointed you towards two Twitter posts on this thread that have thousands/tens of thousands following!!! Open your eyes.

We've gone past the point of good discourse, think it's best we leave it here. We disagree, don't think there's anything I can say that can find a middle ground with you.

Are a couple of twitter accounts (an international platform btw, can we verify all the people following these accounts are Irish?) evidence of a culture of radical racist ideology in this country?

If there are such militant racist groups operating in Ireland surely they would have had some sort of presence at the recent BLM events. They were conspicuous by their absence however

The bare faced cheek of you to suggest that we have gone past good discourse when you refuse to answer simple questions relevant to what you are claiming is astonishing.

Tell me how

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

the beauty of the human race is, we do. it seems (for the most part), we can only focus on 1 issue at a time. whatever's in vogue.

i suppose the students are off the clock now cos they're not meant to be in school. who wants to protest on their own time?

guess thats why the water protests were successful. everyone else was working.

anyway, thats off topic.

the people involved have been charged adequately. what more do the protesters want?

That this doesn't continue being a recurring event.

You know this.

extra gravy

nullzero wrote: »

Preaching is usually done from a pulpit not a high horse, but that's neither here nor there. Your message to me was "off you go" which is dismissive in the extreme.

I am taking the video on its merits, that's all I can do right now until it is verified or deemed to be staged.

So taking it at face value the actions recorded are illegal and should not be tolerated in a civilised society. This is self evident. You cannot even accept that.
Were the ethnicities reversed in this video would you be suggesting it was staged?

Preaching is usually done from a pulpit not a high horse, but that's neither here nor there.

And I'm the condescending one...

Your message to me was "off you go" which is dismissive in the extreme.

You could have posted the full sentence instead of three words but why bother.

We're the ethnicities reversed in this video would you be suggesting it was staged?

I'm not dignifying this with a response. If you're trying to imply that I'm prejudiced or racist in any way, you can get fúcked. End of discussion.