George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

extra gravy

iguana wrote: »

Not completely uncommon in parts of the UK, especially in NI.

I should have stated that I meant in the Republic, not elsewhere.

circadian

extra gravy wrote: »

I should have stated that I meant in the Republic, not elsewhere.

Well, white Irish people aren't a minority in the Republic are they?

I'm struggling to see your point here.

extra gravy

circadian wrote: »

Well, white Irish people aren't a minority in the Republic are they?

I'm struggling to see your point here.

That is my point. The poster said that he had been the victim of racist abuse. He's a white Irish male in the Republic.

Drumpot

Heard an interesting stat this morning on something sent to me from a guy I knew in school (but haven’t seen in decades- long story). Less then 12% of the worlds population is white. I genuinely had never thought about it. My first thought was “wait, white people are actually the minority in the world?”.

And then I started thinking about the racist talk narrative. It can regularly come across that basically that all whites (all 12% of us) are racist in some form. It’s practically like the religious dogma whereby if you even think about having a w*nk you are committing a sin, if you dare think anything bad about anybody not completely white for any reason, you must be deep down a racist in some form.

I don’t see why I should feel guilty for systematic racism in America or why language is used to imply that as a white person I’m automatically complicit in some form. That’s exactly the way the story is being pushed by media and this cause.

When I saw that video of George Floyd I was sick watching it and disgusted. When I have watched documentaries on systematic racism in the US and it’s effect on black lives , I am disgusted. When I watch John Oliver shows highlighted terrible injustices in USA as black people are set up to fail and goto jail, im disgusted.

But when the cause of equal rights turns into a one sided agenda I honestly can get intimidated thinking where this could end up. I don’t care what color you are, you are a human. I don’t trust humans to instinctively do the right thing long term and as a species we are awful at being civil to each other. This isn’t a race thing, this is just human species thing. So if or when we have a Europe at a tipping point of equality what happens? Do people presume that non white people will be more gracious to white people , forget the past and just be more loving and caring? I ask this as a human, do you think non white people are differnt to white people who cause wars and judge others as it suits them?

I remember when I was younger me and friends used to have a laugh , slagging each other for being different , using racist slang agaisnt each other. It was not bitter and wasn’t vicious but it would probably be considered racist nowadays. Personally I believe intent behind the prejudice is what differentiates racist language from being an actual racist. Did I care about the paddy Irishman jokes? No , I thought they were funny? Do I care about jokes on Irish being drunk? I don’t like them but don’t get too upset about it. If somebody is upset with something said, it doesn’t make the person saying things a racist, this has to stop.

I saw Keith lemon apologising for Bo Selecta. Why? He insulted everyone, not just black people. If a comedian slags everybody, why is it only racist to slag black people? If anything he’s insulting everybody equally!! I’m glad John Barnes called it ridiculous that he thought he needed to apologise. In fairness Barnes is probably one of the most level headed people to discuss racism that I’ve certainly heard, he challenge a lot that’s wrong with how society is trying to tackle racism. The same sort of crap ended Apu in the Simpson’s. A lot of people are hysterical and hyperbolic in how they beat down any sort of constructive discussions on it and I think this dilutes meaningful discussions on actual racism.

Christy42

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I disagree, I think that's a stunt that went wrong.

However, I do agree it's best to keep a distance from riot cops particularly in the US.

They don't mess around like here. And the reason for that is that law and order is a priority there and fundamentally they face bigger threats.

Being a cop over there is more dangerous than it is here.

How did he know they would react violently? Had they stopped and talked or arrested him it would have done nothing. Instead you have 3 police coming in to push (1 from behind the other pushes a cop into him as well). If it was a stunt he had all his Christmases at once on that one!

For me law and order includes the police following the law. They definitely went for a shove when it wasn't needed. They either had to walk past or arrest him. This is abuse of power not law and order.

niallo27

I listening to a clip from a radio show in Chicago where a black man rang in and said there was 85 black men killed in Chicago that week, where was BLM for that, a 5 year old black girl was shot by black man last week, where was BLM for that. He said he is not afraid of the police he is afraid over other black men. BLM only care when a white man kills a black man. His words not mine.

marklazarcovic

niallo27 wrote: »

I listening to a clip from a radio show in Chicago where a black man rang in and said there was 85 black men killed in Chicago that week, where was BLM for that, a 5 year old black girl was shot by black man last week, where was BLM for that. He said he is not afraid of the police he is afraid over other black men. BLM only care when a white man kills a black man. His words not mine.

I said it before,you never hear them goin on about how blacks are treated by other blacks in Africa either,and it's much much worse.

Drumpot

niallo27 wrote: »

I listening to a clip from a radio show in Chicago where a black man rang in and said there was 85 black men killed in Chicago that week, where was BLM for that, a 5 year old black girl was shot by black man last week, where was BLM for that. He said he is not afraid of the police he is afraid over other black men. BLM only care when a white man kills a black man. His words not mine.

Had a discussion with a therapist once about this. Society is not great at balancing things out and quite often goes from one extreme to another in an effort to even things out.

Anytime a woman or gay person or black person is passed on a position for a white Person/male, it’s sexist, homophobic or racist. It’s so easy for this picture to be painted and thrown out.

I had a run in with people who were noisy neighbors. For months they drove us mad, Letting their child play basketball in their house (we were below) and kick a ball agaisnt our bedroom wall and constantly park in our one designated parking spot. I wrote a letter asking them politely to maybe work on a few of these things but they went back to normal and it culminated in a 7 day party during Christmas.

We took our case to the PRTB who saw an unmarried couple take a case agaisnt a Mauritius family and made sure we left that meeting feeling like we were the problem. I was warned by my cousin solicitor beforehand that they would throw the racist card into the mix but it’s not until somebody throws it out there that it hits you.

They said that the management company stated we called them “packies” Which was a flat out lie. I went up to the management company office and asked them who said it and to Confirm in writing. They gave me a letter confirming it was horsesh*t, but the damage was done. Mud sticks.

We sold our place less then 4 weeks after the PRTB debacle but were tortured the whole time and then we were abused under the “race card” bullsh*t that diminishes efforts to tackle racism.

weldoninhio

marklazarcovic wrote: »

I said it before,you never hear them goin on about how blacks are treated by other blacks in Africa either,and it's much much worse.

#Trendymarchesmatter There are no marches for the open air slave markets in Africa, no marches for those being kidnapped by Boko Harem in Nigeria, no marches for Palestinians being bulldozed out of their homes in Palestine. Seems black lives only matter when celebs and sportspeople tweet and complain about it.

Dyr

Kidchameleon wrote: »

He was standing at the periphery of his building when he was spotted and identified as a potential rapist. The cops approached him and he ran towards his door. Where he was spotted to where his door was is a good few meters IIRC so he ran for a fair few seconds

The D'iallo thing was probably caused by the success of the Street Crime Units of the day, The politicians saw how effective they were and ordered more units be mobilised but the SCUs success was based on having experienced officers putting themselves in high risk situations and slowly training up new members via mentoring. The expanded teams lacked the experience and when they found themselves in split second situations that required experience to avoid f***king up they made bad decisions.

Tea drinker

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Cameraman is white

Most of the cops charged in George Floyds murder aren't white

Tea drinker

extra gravy wrote: »

And I made the assumption based on the fact that you are a white Irish male, which you've stated yourself elsewhere. As a white Irish male myself, I've never been the victim of racist abuse. Everyone's experience is different of course but it's a reasonable assumption to make that a white Irish male would not generally be subjected to racist abuse. You're just allowing assumptions when it suits you. And saying people shouldn't make assumptions is naive, we all do it on occasion, it's human nature.

Brother was attacked in UK for being Irish. I was often stopped by armed police travelling to UK.
Now we have a video of an British lad in Cork, screaming about slavery, when the UK enslaved this country for years, took Irish women as breeders with other slaves for a eugenics experiment in making better slaves, and starved millions.
But THIS British fella gets to scream and kick the head off an Irish teen?

Edgware

Tea drinker wrote: »

Most of the cops charged in George Floyds murder aren't white

Dont be posting accuracies like that. The truth isnt any help here. Next thing you'll be saying that black people commit crime as well as white people. We can't be having that

extra gravy

This thread was a useful reminder than i need to use the ignore button more often.

niallo27

extra gravy wrote: »

This thread has a useful reminder than i need to use the ignore button more often.

What posts exactly. One of the huge issues I feel is that its impossible debate this subject without being called a racist, unless you are 100% behind BLM you will be destroyed in the media and ruin your career.

A Consonant Please Carol

extra gravy wrote:

This thread has a useful reminder than i need to use the ignore button more often.

These kind of threads are always a clusterfuk with an awful lot of bullsh!t spouted. Reasoned debate is rare enough here generally.

shaveAbullock

A Consonant Please Carol wrote: »

These kind of threads are always a clusterfuk with an awful lot of bullsh!t spouted. Reasoned debate is rare enough here generally.

That's true, event though it has a new name this is really just after house 2.0

Drumpot

niallo27 wrote: »

What posts exactly. One of the huge issues I feel is that its impossible debate this subject without being called a racist, unless you are 100% behind BLM you will be destroyed in the media and ruin your career.

A Consonant Please Carol wrote: »

These kind of threads are always a clusterfuk with an awful lot of bullsh!t spouted. Reasoned debate is rare enough here generally.

I think it’s very difficult to have reasonable discussions in general in here. But there is a different and broad definition by individuals on what is defined at racist. There is a real pitchfork mentality with certain mobs who think they are focusing on equality when in fact they are like the roman church castigating anybody who doesn’t completely agree and comply with their interpretation of how to tackle racism. I generally know that when I am absolutely certain on some things, that I’m most likely going to struggle to be objective on that topic. As the saying goes “ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so sure of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts”. When you throw passion and hostility into the mix it makes it harder for us to have quality conversations on a topic.

Just look at the schoolyard way politicians engage each other in debate forums. It’s pathetic but it’s representative of the wider public’s capacity for objective reasoning/discussion.

joseywhales

I believe the protests are about racial inequality in our institutions and police brutality.

Why are people talking about issues in Africa and black on black violence? How is it relevant to the standard we expect from police enforcement?

This random white guy I just googled was arrested for kidnapping and sexual assault.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wsbt.com/amp/news/local/middlebury-man-arrested-in-kidnapping-sexual-assault-of-44-year-old-woman

I guess this means that the police can now target and potentially kill unarmed white men?

The truth is none of this matters as to how a police officer should behave, presumption of innocence, minimum force etc etc. The police get protection under law(if I murder a police officer the crime is higher than if I murder an ordinary citizen) therefore they have a responsibility to uphold a higher standard. They are also supplied with weapons and permission to use them, this also comes with a higher expectation of moral action from the police.

What in gods name does Africa have to do with any of this?

extra gravy

niallo27 wrote: »

What posts exactly. One of the huge issues I feel is that its impossible debate this subject without being called a racist, unless you are 100% behind BLM you will be destroyed in the media and ruin your career.

Well for one thing the Cork attack hasn't been confirmed as a racially motivated incident. It's been assumed and jumped on by a few headcases here and on Twitter who say it is. Cue multiple posts about "African scum" immigrants etc. A resident of Carrigaline posted here last night that it wasn't connected to race but he was just ignored because it doesn't suit most people's agenda. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not but you'd think that the opinion of someone who lives there would hold more weight than randomers on the Internet. It seems that every incident now involving different races is assumed to be racially motivated and if you have temerity to say otherwise, you're prejudiced. I look at that incident as a vile act of pure thuggery with a hugely problematic issue at its core - that this teenager thought it acceptable to bring a knife out with him and use it on an innocent person.

2u2me

Drumpot wrote: »

Anytime a woman or gay person or black person is passed on a position for a white Person/male, it’s sexist, homophobic or racist. It’s so easy for this picture to be painted and thrown out.

When they were doing the casting for "Angela's Ashes" in my school I remember thinking how unfair and racist it was I had no chance to be in it(I'm not white). They screened more than half of the class and I didn't even get a second look.

We were taught in school all these special programs about racism yet there was only probably a handful of us in the whole year. There was English and Canadian guys aswell but they weren't talking about them for some reason even though they got bullied for being English and Canadian. Likewise the short guy got it, the tall guy, the guy with glasses.

There was a time I would attack anyone I didn't like or was attacking me by calling them racist. It wasn't contrived, I genuinely believed it. I was brainwashed. It was only confirmed and reinforced by authorities that punished the person I was pointing the finger at. Just like the Mauritian family.

Now when I see a racist attitude I think how childish that is and can the person really be that stupid, I feel sorry for them. I've now had opportunities my other class mates didn't have. Now I know kids stop calling each other 4-eyes at a point. They just notice differences. Interpreting every sleight to be somehow racist or sexist is tearing this world apart.

2u2me

A Consonant Please Carol wrote: »

These kind of threads are always a clusterfuk with an awful lot of bullsh!t spouted. Reasoned debate is rare enough here generally.

It's quite ironic that the people making this argument are the very ones with the least amount of argument in this thread.

Outlaw Pete

Can anyone imagine the mainstream media saying that a right wing protest was "largely peaceful" if 27 members of the police force were injured?


https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1269574979680702470

All these people have each others backs and it has to be called out for the shameful propaganda that it is.

jarvis

Drumpot wrote: »

Heard an interesting stat this morning on something sent to me from a guy I knew in school (but haven’t seen in decades- long story). Less then 12% of the worlds population is white. I genuinely had never thought about it. My first thought was “wait, white people are actually the minority in the world?”.

And then I started thinking about the racist talk narrative. It can regularly come across that basically that all whites (all 12% of us) are racist in some form. It’s practically like the religious dogma whereby if you even think about having a w*nk you are committing a sin, if you dare think anything bad about anybody not completely white for any reason, you must be deep down a racist in some form.

I don’t see why I should feel guilty for systematic racism in America or why language is used to imply that as a white person I’m automatically complicit in some form. That’s exactly the way the story is being pushed by media and this cause.

When I saw that video of George Floyd I was sick watching it and disgusted. When I have watched documentaries on systematic racism in the US and it’s effect on black lives , I am disgusted. When I watch John Oliver shows highlighted terrible injustices in USA as black people are set up to fail and goto jail, im disgusted.

But when the cause of equal rights turns into a one sided agenda I honestly can get intimidated thinking where this could end up. I don’t care what color you are, you are a human. I don’t trust humans to instinctively do the right thing long term and as a species we are awful at being civil to each other. This isn’t a race thing, this is just human species thing. So if or when we have a Europe at a tipping point of equality what happens? Do people presume that non white people will be more gracious to white people , forget the past and just be more loving and caring? I ask this as a human, do you think non white people are differnt to white people who cause wars and judge others as it suits them?

I remember when I was younger me and friends used to have a laugh , slagging each other for being different , using racist slang agaisnt each other. It was not bitter and wasn’t vicious but it would probably be considered racist nowadays. Personally I believe intent behind the prejudice is what differentiates racist language from being an actual racist. Did I care about the paddy Irishman jokes? No , I thought they were funny? Do I care about jokes on Irish being drunk? I don’t like them but don’t get too upset about it. If somebody is upset with something said, it doesn’t make the person saying things a racist, this has to stop.

I saw Keith lemon apologising for Bo Selecta. Why? He insulted everyone, not just black people. If a comedian slags everybody, why is it only racist to slag black people? If anything he’s insulting everybody equally!! I’m glad John Barnes called it ridiculous that he thought he needed to apologise. In fairness Barnes is probably one of the most level headed people to discuss racism that I’ve certainly heard, he challenge a lot that’s wrong with how society is trying to tackle racism. The same sort of crap ended Apu in the Simpson’s. A lot of people are hysterical and hyperbolic in how they beat down any sort of constructive discussions on it and I think this dilutes meaningful discussions on actual racism.

This is a great post. Agree 100%

A Consonant Please Carol

2u2me wrote:

It's quite ironic that the people making this argument are the very ones with the least amount of argument in this thread.

It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife....

2u2me

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Can anyone imagine the mainstream media saying that a right wing protest was "largely peaceful" if 27 members of the police force were injured?

All these people have each others backs and it has to be called out for the shameful propaganda that it is.

+1

2u2me

A Consonant Please Carol wrote: »

It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife....

Meeting the man of my dreams, and then meeting his beautiful wife?

Jimmy Garlic

Three black people shot dead in cold blood by other black people in Chicago on Thursday night , that’s about thirty plus black lives that didn’t seem to matter to other trigger happy black people in the last two weeks in just in one city. Filth like George Soros and the Clinton’s have a large segment of African Americans wrapped around their little fingers. All the cities that are worst for black on black violence and crime in general are run by so called democrats, that’s no coincidence.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I’d like to start this post by stating I think what happened to George Floyd was disgusting and nobody deserves to die on the street at the hands of those who are supposed to protect society.

However, we cannot ignore the elephant in the room. He has incarcerated 7 times, one of those times was for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, where he pushed a gun into the stomach of a woman while he was robbing her home.

I’m sorry to say it, but in America POC males have done themselves no favours in regards to being profiled by the police. I am 100% in support of BLM but I would expect these men (black white yellow pink polka dot) to extend the same courtesy towards police, and other members of society they pull guns on, or sell drugs to or rob. When someone is capable of pulling a deadly weapon then I’m sorry, what do you expect law enforcement to do exactly?

I’d like to see the money raised in the wake of this movement going towards poorer districts, into schools to educate and keep children from poorer areas in school and giving them a fair chance to succeed in life. It’s not black people that’s the problem, it’s socio economic factors, and the only way to change this is through education.

A 22 year old Hispanic man was shot in California last week, armed with a hammer. What do we expect police to do with people like this? Approach them and invite them to hug it out?

Timberrrrrrrr

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Three black people shot dead in cold blood by other black people in Chicago on Thursday night , that’s about thirty plus black lives that didn’t seem to matter to other trigger happy black people in the last two weeks in just in one city. Filth like George Soros and the Clinton’s have a large segment of African Americans wrapped around their little fingers. All the cities that are worst for black on black violence and crime in general are run by so called democrats, that’s no coincidence.

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