George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

joseywhales

2u2me wrote: »

When they were doing the casting for "Angela's Ashes" in my school I remember thinking how unfair and racist it was I had no chance to be in it(I'm not white). They screened more than half of the class and I didn't even get a second look.

We were taught in school all these special programs about racism yet there was only probably a handful of us in the whole year. There was English and Canadian guys aswell but they weren't talking about them for some reason even though they got bullied for being English and Canadian. Likewise the short guy got it, the tall guy, the guy with glasses.

There was a time I would attack anyone I didn't like or was attacking me by calling them racist. It wasn't contrived, I genuinely believed it. I was brainwashed. It was only confirmed and reinforced by authorities that punished the person I was pointing the finger at. Just like the Mauritian family.

Now when I see a racist attitude I think how childish that is and can the person really be that stupid, I feel sorry for them. I've now had opportunities my other class mates didn't have. Now I know kids stop calling each other 4-eyes at a point. They just notice differences. Interpreting every sleight to be somehow racist or sexist is tearing this world apart.

Yes we are all learning as we go along. I struggle with understanding why it can be racist if I am colorblind(as in I do not give any creedance whatsoever to someone's background, I try to see through them, which is really easy) I always thought that was the correct strategy, works for me but now I hear that black people do not always like that, they want their history recognised I think and I have to at least try to change my thinking since it's no real trouble for me and they are the ones that feel bad. The big problem is this assumption that all black people are the same, a definition of racism. We are trying to understand "how to treat black people", the question is racist. Black people are as diverse as white people, some will like one set of boundaries others won't. This is very obvious if you talk to someone from say Kenya, Nigeria, south Africa, Jamaica, uk and north Carolina. You couldn't get more different people, some share more characteristics with a white European than another black person in that group.


I live in the us, it does irk me somewhat that in some people's eyes I guess I am part of the oppression, I start by thinking I grew up with nothing in a country town of 2k people in rural Ireland, how does this make sense? Even for say a British prince, I also think it's unfair to "blame the son for the sins of his father" by definition we do not control what happened before our birth. If that were the case they would all be in the hague for war crimes. I still have no solution apart from don't be a dick to anyone.

Timberrrrrrrr

Emmie Delicious Spokeswoman wrote: »

I’d like to start this post by stating I think what happened to George Floyd was disgusting and nobody deserves to die on the street at the hands of those who are supposed to protect society.

However, we cannot ignore the elephant in the room. He has incarcerated 7 times, one of those times was for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, where he pushed a gun into the stomach of a woman while he was robbing her home.

I’m sorry to say it, but in America POC males have done themselves no favours in regards to being profiled by the police. I am 100% in support of BLM but I would expect these men (black white yellow pink polka dot) to extend the same courtesy towards police, and other members of society they pull guns on, or sell drugs to or rob. When someone is capable of pulling a deadly weapon then I’m sorry, what do you expect law enforcement to do exactly?

I’d like to see the money raised in the wake of this movement going towards poorer districts, into schools to educate and keep children from poorer areas in school and giving them a fair chance to succeed in life. It’s not black people that’s the problem, it’s socio economic factors, and the only way to change this is through education.

A 22 year old Hispanic man was shot in California last week, armed with a hammer. What do we expect police to do with people like this? Approach them and invite them to hug it out?

The police didnt know any of this, they were called because GF had (knowingly?) used a counterfeit $20 to buy cigarettes.

joe40

Drumpot wrote: »

Heard an interesting stat this morning on something sent to me from a guy I knew in school (but haven’t seen in decades- long story). Less then 12% of the worlds population is white. I genuinely had never thought about it. My first thought was “wait, white people are actually the minority in the world?”.

And then I started thinking about the racist talk narrative. It can regularly come across that basically that all whites (all 12% of us) are racist in some form. It’s practically like the religious dogma whereby if you even think about having a w*nk you are committing a sin, if you dare think anything bad about anybody not completely white for any reason, you must be deep down a racist in some form.

I don’t see why I should feel guilty for systematic racism in America or why language is used to imply that as a white person I’m automatically complicit in some form. That’s exactly the way the story is being pushed by media and this cause.

When I saw that video of George Floyd I was sick watching it and disgusted. When I have watched documentaries on systematic racism in the US and it’s effect on black lives , I am disgusted. When I watch John Oliver shows highlighted terrible injustices in USA as black people are set up to fail and goto jail, im disgusted.

But when the cause of equal rights turns into a one sided agenda I honestly can get intimidated thinking where this could end up. I don’t care what color you are, you are a human. I don’t trust humans to instinctively do the right thing long term and as a species we are awful at being civil to each other. This isn’t a race thing, this is just human species thing. So if or when we have a Europe at a tipping point of equality what happens? Do people presume that non white people will be more gracious to white people , forget the past and just be more loving and caring? I ask this as a human, do you think non white people are differnt to white people who cause wars and judge others as it suits them?

I remember when I was younger me and friends used to have a laugh , slagging each other for being different , using racist slang agaisnt each other. It was not bitter and wasn’t vicious but it would probably be considered racist nowadays. Personally I believe intent behind the prejudice is what differentiates racist language from being an actual racist. Did I care about the paddy Irishman jokes? No , I thought they were funny? Do I care about jokes on Irish being drunk? I don’t like them but don’t get too upset about it. If somebody is upset with something said, it doesn’t make the person saying things a racist, this has to stop.

I saw Keith lemon apologising for Bo Selecta. Why? He insulted everyone, not just black people. If a comedian slags everybody, why is it only racist to slag black people? If anything he’s insulting everybody equally!! I’m glad John Barnes called it ridiculous that he thought he needed to apologise. In fairness Barnes is probably one of the most level headed people to discuss racism that I’ve certainly heard, he challenge a lot that’s wrong with how society is trying to tackle racism. The same sort of crap ended Apu in the Simpson’s. A lot of people are hysterical and hyperbolic in how they beat down any sort of constructive discussions on it and I think this dilutes meaningful discussions on actual racism.

I agree with a lot of your post but where I disagree is that I do not feel that I am been made feel guilty for been white.

I am a white male and I have nothing to be guilty about and I won't apologise for something I'm not responsible for. But here's the thing I haven't heard anything in the discussion of recent days that are forcing me to feel guilty.

I am disgusted by the manner in which Floyd was killed by the police, I'm disgusted by the police brutality in the US but I'm not been made feel guilty for it.

I can filter out noise on Facebook.
If a black person or any minority, talks about racism they face in Ireland sometimes I think yeah that sounds rascist, sometimes i think an incident is isolated and you just met an asshole.
But I don't feel threatened by them discussing their experiences. I'm glad to live in a country where that can happen.

In my opinion I don't think there is much systemic rascism in Ireland, but we do have our fair share of assholes willing to use racial abuse, but they would use any issue to cause insult.

In terms of the wider issues of the human species race is largely a misnomer, biologically there is only one race.
Our behavior and attitudes to a large extent are learned from culture and society.

There can always be prejudice and rascism from dominant culture to less dominant, regardless of skin pigmentation.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The police didnt know any of this, they were called because GF had (knowingly?) used a counterfeit $20 to buy cigarettes.

Nope they didn’t know any of this, and the policeman who arrested Floyd had him on the ground and was in control and did not need to use excessive force, and the 3 other dimwits shouldn’t have stood by and let their colleague murder a man in front of them.

But profiling exists to access the risk. They’re up in arms that FG was profiled, but in fact he has a history for assault with a deadly weapon, he was convicted and incarcerated of this crime. He was a dangerous man.

bloodless_coup

The whole "black people matter" thing has gone to far.

Cupatae

Black Lives Matter tonight in Carrigaline Cork. ... Kid gets stabbed several times and mocked in racially motivated attack apparently, BLM tho.

Jimmy Garlic

bloodless_coup wrote: »

The whole "black people matter" thing has gone to far.

If only they mattered to each other, that would be a great start.

Timberrrrrrrr

Emmie Delicious Spokeswoman wrote: »

Nope they didn’t know any of this, and the policeman who arrested Floyd had him on the ground and was in control and did not need to use excessive force, and the 3 other dimwits shouldn’t have stood by and let their colleague murder a man in front of them.

But profiling exists to access the risk. They’re up in arms that FG was profiled, but in fact he has a history for assault with a deadly weapon, he was convicted and incarcerated of this crime. He was a dangerous man.

But they didn't know this at the time! If that is the case then everyone should be profiled in case they had previous convictions.

Dylan roof shot up a church killing 9 people and was arrested without being "profiled" GF used a fake 20 and was killed.

joe40

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

If only they mattered to each other, that would be a great start.

Are you saying that people killed by criminals is the same thing as people killed by the police.

Because that is lumping the police in with the criminals, why would that make sense.

Drumpot

joe40 wrote: »

I agree with a lot of your post but where I disagree is that I do not feel that I am been made feel guilty for been white.

I am a white male and I have nothing to be guilty about and I won't apologise for something I'm not responsible for. But here's the thing I haven't heard anything in the discussion of recent days that are forcing me to feel guilty.

I am disgusted by the manner in which Floyd was killed by the police, I'm disgusted by the police brutality in the US but I'm not been made feel guilty for it.

I can filter out noise on Facebook.
If a black person or any minority, talks about racism they face in Ireland sometimes I think yeah that sounds rascist, sometimes i think an incident is isolated and you just met an asshole.
But I don't feel threatened by them discussing their experiences. I'm glad to live in a country where that can happen.

In my opinion I don't think there is much systemic rascism in Ireland, but we do have our fair share of assholes willing to use racial abuse, but they would use any issue to cause insult.

In terms of the wider issues of the human species race is largely a misnomer, biologically there is only one race.
Our behavior and attitudes to a large extent are learned from culture and society.

There can always be prejudice and rascism from dominant culture to less dominant, regardless of skin pigmentation.

Maybe you don’t feel like you are being made feel guilty but clearly a lot of people do feel it. People apologizing now for things in the past that now appear to be racist to some (Keith Lemon example), there is a witch-hunt of zero tolerance to anything that even resembles something that may or may not be racist.

I’m totally with you, I see people as people and you are not defined by the color of your skin or your sexual proclivities, I don’t care about these things. I wouldn’t see as many black or Asian or South American people in my world so when I meet them it can be unique. It’s instinctively human to be curious and maybe a bit defencive of something you are not familiar with. But we react mostly to what we see and unfortunately skin color and looks (ugly, pretty, scars etc) can influence how we react to people.

In my life, I’ve been on the receiving end of some nasty stuff from people from Different ethnicities. But I don’t presume they are representative of their entire race or country , I see it as human behavior that is in every country and ethnic population. It kind of grates on me when one loud voice (unions, public servants , most causes) become mob like and will only listen to their own rhetoric. It’s dangerous and lacks regulation because everybody’s afraid to challange elements that might be bad.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cupatae wrote: »

Black Lives Matter tonight in Carrigaline Cork. ... Kid gets stabbed several times and mocked in racially motivated attack apparently, BLM tho.

Nope, already been confirmed by someone from there that this is kids/gangs being dicks.

mynamejeff

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The police didnt know any of this, they were called because GF had (knowingly?) used a counterfeit $20 to buy cigarettes.

Didn't they know each other ? worked in the same place at the same time some reports that they worked in the same small place for 17 years .

would suggest that the cop new about Floyds violent history

but then its probably racist to state that …..

https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/did-george-floyd-and-derek-chauvin-work-together-vice-president-minneapolis-city-council-and-club-owner-claims-explained-2869199

Drumpot

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nope, already been confirmed by someone from there that this is kids/gangs being dicks.

I’m guessing what people are wondering is how this would be reported if it was a white gang of kids beating up a black kid. It’s a fair point, is it automatically racists if a bunch of Irish kids beat up or stabbing a child of color but just kids messing around if it’s vice versa.

The issue I have with media and society is that in an effort to integrate minorities they protect them in a way that creates mistrust and anger. They over report “racist” attacks (as in all attacks on these minorities are classed racist) and are more frugal in reporting it the other way around.

mynamejeff

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nope, already been confirmed by someone from there that this is kids/gangs being dicks.

hardly confirmed now was it ,

A black kid stabbing a white kid on the ground a heap of time and even pushing a young girl out of the way to go back for more while another black kid videos it and laughs his way through a commentary has no racial aspect ?

but its probably racist to state that isn't it …...

Jimmy Garlic

joe40 wrote: »

Are you saying that people killed by criminals is the same thing as people killed by the police.

Because that is lumping the police in with the criminals, why would that make sense.

Any police officer that kills somebody who isn’t armed with intent is a criminal. Police violence is an issue for black people in some parts of the US, usually democrat run cities like Minneapolis. Black on Black violence is a much bigger issue that is not even being acknowledged.literally dozens of black people are murdered every single day in the US by other black people.

joe40

Drumpot wrote: »

Maybe you don’t feel like you are being made feel guilty but clearly a lot of people do feel it. People apologizing now for things in the past that now appear to be racist to some (Keith Lemon example), there is a witch-hunt of zero tolerance to anything that even resembles something that may or may not be racist.

I’m totally with you, I see people as people and you are not defined by the color of your skin or your sexual proclivities, I don’t care about these things. I wouldn’t see as many black or Asian or South American people in my world so when I meet them it can be unique. It’s instinctively human to be curious and maybe a bit defencive of something you are not familiar with. But we react mostly to what we see and unfortunately skin color and looks (ugly, pretty, scars etc) can influence how we react to people.

In my life, I’ve been on the receiving end of some nasty stuff from people from Different ethnicities. But I don’t presume they are representative of their entire race or country , I see it as human behavior that is in every country and ethnic population. It kind of grates on me when one loud voice (unions, public servants , most causes) become mob like and will only listen to their own rhetoric. It’s dangerous and lacks regulation because everybody’s afraid to challange elements that might be bad.

Again I can agree with a lot but I just don't see the mob element in this. Maybe because I'm largely supportive so don't feel threatened.

I lived in the UK in early 90s and most people were fine but still plenty of wee Irish digs were given.

I remember the Jim Davidson type comedians and their stupid paddy jokes. You don't hear that anymore.
I don't know what experiences Irish people get in England now but I'm sure it is better.

My point is that that times change and sometimes it is only with hindsight that we can see problems.

For me I try to examine my responses and bias but ultimately reach a conclusion or point of view that I can stand over, and not be afraid of.

A Consonant Please Carol

Is there anything to be said for an oul cup if chamomile tea?...

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But they didn't know this at the time! If that is the case then everyone should be profiled in case they had previous convictions.

Dylan roof shot up a church killing 9 people and was arrested without being "profiled" GF used a fake 20 and was killed.

He was profiled! He was assumed to be a dangerous man. It may have been the colour of his skin, his appearance, his demeanor. Their profiling, or assessment of the risk, turned out to be just. He was a dangerous man. They took it too far, too heavy handed and murdered a man, but he was profiled and rightly so.


And people are profiled all the time, everyone is. Who’s going to get stopped and searched on the street? A small female thats respectfully dressed or someone with a tight haircut tracksuits and a scar on their face?

joe40

Drumpot wrote: »

Maybe you don’t feel like you are being made feel guilty but clearly a lot of people do feel it. People apologizing now for things in the past that now appear to be racist to some (Keith Lemon example), there is a witch-hunt of zero tolerance to anything that even resembles something that may or may not be racist.

I’m totally with you, I see people as people and you are not defined by the color of your skin or your sexual proclivities, I don’t care about these things. I wouldn’t see as many black or Asian or South American people in my world so when I meet them it can be unique. It’s instinctively human to be curious and maybe a bit defencive of something you are not familiar with. But we react mostly to what we see and unfortunately skin color and looks (ugly, pretty, scars etc) can influence how we react to people.

In my life, I’ve been on the receiving end of some nasty stuff from people from Different ethnicities. But I don’t presume they are representative of their entire race or country , I see it as human behavior that is in every country and ethnic population. It kind of grates on me when one loud voice (unions, public servants , most causes) become mob like and will only listen to their own rhetoric. It’s dangerous and lacks regulation because everybody’s afraid to challange elements that might be bad.

Again I can agree with a lot but I just don't see the mob element in this. Maybe because I'm largely supportive so don't feel threatened.

I lived in the UK in early 90s and most people were fine but still plenty of wee Irish digs were given.

I remember the Jim Davidson type comedians and their stupid paddy jokes. You don't hear that anymore.
I don't know what experiences Irish people get in England now but I'm sure it is better.

My point is that that times change and sometimes it is only with hindsight that we can see problems.

For me I try to examine my responses and bias but ultimately reach a conclusion or point of view that I can stand over, and not be afraid of.

Timberrrrrrrr

mynamejeff wrote: »

Didn't they know each other ? worked in the same place at the same time some reports that they worked in the same small place for 17 years .

would suggest that the cop new about Floyds violent history

but then its probably racist to state that …..

Did you even read the article?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/did-george-floyd-and-derek-chauvin-work-together-vice-president-minneapolis-city-council-and-club-owner-claims-explained-2869199

Ms. Jenkins claims that the two men both worked as bouncers at El Nuevo Rodeo Club in 2019, a claim since confirmed by the owner.

She confirmed that the two men both worked at the club, but suggested they may never have encountered each other.

"They were working together at the same time, it's just that Chauvin worked outside and the security guards were inside."

Speaking to the Star Tribune, Santamaria said: "If they would have crossed paths it would probably not have been something they remembered."

Timberrrrrrrr

mynamejeff wrote: »

hardly confirmed now was it ,

A black kid stabbing a white kid on the ground a heap of time and even pushing a young girl out of the way to go back for more while another black kid videos it and laughs his way through a commentary has no racial aspect ?

but its probably racist to state that isn't it …...

State what you want, for me it was scum being scum, same if it was a white lad stabbing a black lad.

joe40

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Any police officer that kills somebody who isn’t armed with intent is a criminal. Police violence is an issue for black people in some parts of the US, usually democrat run cities like Minneapolis. Black on Black violence is a much bigger issue that is not even being acknowledged.literally dozens of black people are murdered every single day in the US by other black people.

That is crime, a serious problem but a different problem.

mynamejeff

A Consonant Please Carol wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for an oul cup if chamomile tea?...

the tea shop got looted and burned down ,

sorry

mynamejeff

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

State what you want, for me it was scum being scum, same if it was a white lad stabbing a black lad.

would it be racially motivated then if it was white on black ?

mynamejeff

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Did you even read the article?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/did-george-floyd-and-derek-chauvin-work-together-vice-president-minneapolis-city-council-and-club-owner-claims-explained-2869199

did you ?

two versions of ot , do you know which one is true ?

Santamaria’s comments are in conflict with those of Jenkins who appeared to suggest that Floyd and Chauvin worked together for 17 years.
During her interview with MSNBC Jenkins said: "They were coworkers for a very long time. George Floyd worked at that restaurant, so did Officer Chauvin. They were both bouncers at that restaurant for seventeen years."


Jenkins went on to say, "So Officer Chauvin...he knew George,...they were co-workers".

Jimmy Garlic

joe40 wrote: »

That is crime, a serious problem but a different problem.

Probably the biggest problem for black communities in America, and it isn’t simply a crime problem, it is a cultural problem if murder is so widespread and people so dehumanized by each other via “music” etc that it is actually glorified and encouraged.

Timberrrrrrrr

mynamejeff wrote: »

would it be racially motivated then if it was white on black ?

Fùcked if I know. It depends on what's said/done. You seem to have made your mind up though.

Drumpot

joe40 wrote: »

Again I can agree with a lot but I just don't see the mob element in this. Maybe because I'm largely supportive so don't feel threatened.

I lived in the UK in early 90s and most people were fine but still plenty of wee Irish digs were given.

I remember the Jim Davidson type comedians and their stupid paddy jokes. You don't hear that anymore.
I don't know what experiences Irish people get in England now but I'm sure it is better.

My point is that that times change and sometimes it is only with hindsight that we can see problems.

For me I try to examine my responses and bias but ultimately reach a conclusion or point of view that I can stand over, and not be afraid of.

It’s funny because similarly I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but there are toxic element of this BLM stuff and there are potential issues that can arise from these sort of things. As I’ve said, I think as a society we are bad at addressing inequalities and are even worse at time’s at addressing them Rationally.

I know this is off point but why the F**k are people marching during a pandemic ? And when you factor in that black people (poor and vitamin D deficient in USA) are more likely to get a severe reaction to COVID, then more black people are going to die as a result of a march on how “black lives matter”! I mean you can’t make it up....

gw80

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

State what you want, for me it was scum being scum, same if it was a white lad stabbing a black lad.

Have you seen the video?

Timberrrrrrrr

mynamejeff wrote: »

did you ?

two versions of ot , do you know which one is true ?

Santamaria’s comments are in conflict with those of Jenkins who appeared to suggest that Floyd and Chauvin worked together for 17 years.
During her interview with MSNBC Jenkins said: "They were coworkers for a very long time. George Floyd worked at that restaurant, so did Officer Chauvin. They were both bouncers at that restaurant for seventeen years."


Jenkins went on to say, "So Officer Chauvin...he knew George,...they were co-workers".

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12337320

Floyd and the officer charged with his death both worked security at the same local club for a few months before Floyd's death in Minneapolis last week.

says the two worked near each other on Tuesday night shifts once a week, although she did not know whether they had actually met.

says she paid Chauvin, while he was off-duty as a police officer, to sit in his squad car outside the club for 17 years.

Floyd worked as a security guard inside the club last year.

Santamaria is unsure whether they ever met, but they did work in close proximity every Tuesday night.

Seems Chauvin was heavy handed there too

She said customers never complained about Chauvin but did have comments about how he handled them.