George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It deosnt matter what flyod done in past,it deosnt give police a licence to kill him on side of the street

Literally nobody has said that.

Tell me how

bloodless_coup wrote: »

Bull****.

If it was white on black people would be falling over themselves to be first to condemn the attack as racist, it would be widespread reported in the media and anyone talking about context would be shouted down as racist.

Have you any examples of where this has happened, or is it just high temperature hyperbole.

Cupatae wrote: »

Racism is being cheered on against white people this is a fact, its a complete double standard.

well there was zero to state chauvin was racially motivated, but yet its widely accepted with 0 proof. Again double standards.. it is ok to bash white people the whole BLM has the undertone of bashing of white people.

GF broke into a pregnant womans house and bashed her over the head with a pistol, but is being hailed as a martyr for black people? we completely ignore the fact that more crimes are committed by black people therefor more likely to be in conflict with police more often with more chance of incidents to occur.

Black people are being massively pandered to in the US,scholarship,places in university, job priority ect.. if a white person has a higher score the black person with a lower score is accepted into college... dont even get me started on Ireland or England... no doubt ill be branded a racist because im not pandering to the crowd and its frowned apon to speak out against anything to do with black people or blm regardless of how true it is.

Chauvin is the name people are putting to the face of police brutality. That's how things happen, people become a figurehead, a focal point, because their name is synonymous with the wider context or awareness associated with the individuals behaviour.

Rosa Parks wasnt the only lady to protest segregation, but her name has become recognized with thos events.

Same here for GF and Chauvin.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

It deosnt matter what flyod done in past,it deosnt give police a licence to kill him on side of the street


It seems more and more likely,this wasnt racist motivated,just the police recruited a killer and let him loose......

the fact not 1 member of public felt in a position to intervene,speaks volumes of oppresive control police have over there

Chauvin was never a killer.

One act here, that he did with assistance (four of them in total restrained George on the ground d).

Telling you, the crowd challenging him was what really seemed to agitate and exasperate him. He defied them, and in doing so he caused George to lose consciousness and die.

He deserves to be punished for his actions here.

How this one incident has led to to this mass explosion and condemnation about police brutality and racism existing to such extremes is bewildering.

People have taken this incident and turned it into an issue of massive significance, an issue that is not near the level that the attention is bringing it.

Outlaw Pete

KiKi III wrote: »

Just a few years out from Tamir Rice and Travyon Brown and multiple others.

So people are inferring it’s racially motivated from context.

They are inferring it from a context alright but that context is not reflective of the reality of the situation - it's a manufactured context.

And sure, there is evidence of police brutality against white People and other races, but it doesn’t seem to end in tragic deaths as often.

That's false. MORE unarmed white people die at the hands of the police in the US each year, not less. Here's an article which goes through those which involve shootings.

Some of the cops have done time for killings which involve white victims and some have not. The Tony Timpa and Daniel Shaver killings saw cops disgustingly walk on all charges.

I’ve certainly never heard of a 12 year old white kid being shot dead in seconds by police because of a toy gun.

How about a six-year old Autistic boy?

And this is the problem. The mainstream media in the States (and in most of Western Society in fact) only amplify their reporting on such deaths when it fits their favoured narrative and this leads to people believing things were are not necessarily reflective of the facts.

bloodless_coup

Tell me how wrote: »

Have you any examples of where this has happened, or is it just high temperature hyperbole.

An example? George Floyd.

Zero evidence of racism involved. The context of his violent criminal in history is ignored. The context of what happened before the video is ignored.

Yet for black on white, you require a full analysis of the context of the attack before you'd even consider it to be racially motivated, but even then I'm sure some you'd drag up some socio-economic circumstances as mitigating factors.

joe40

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

They are inferring it from a context alright but that context is not reflective of the reality of the situation - it's a manufactured context.



That's false. MORE unarmed white people die at the hands of the police in the US each year, not less. Here's an article which goes through those which involve shootings.

Some of the cops have done time for killings which involve white victims and some have not. The Tony Timpa and Daniel Shaver killings saw cops disgustingly walk on all charges.



How about a six-year old Autistic boy?

And this is the problem. The mainstream media in the States (and in most of Western Society in fact) only amplify their reporting on such deaths when it fits their favoured narrative and this leads to people believing things were are not necessarily reflective of the facts.

From your post it looks like police reform is desperately needed for all communities in the US.

Crime follows poverty, so this whole thing is tied up with inequality, lack of education, lack of health care etc
A whole range of issues affecting especially poorer communities. Poverty doesn't exclusively affect the black community but they are badly hit.

weldoninhio

joseywhales wrote: »

I believe the protests are about racial inequality in our institutions and police brutality.

Why are people talking about issues in Africa and black on black violence? How is it relevant to the standard we expect from police enforcement?

This random white guy I just googled was arrested for kidnapping and sexual assault.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wsbt.com/amp/news/local/middlebury-man-arrested-in-kidnapping-sexual-assault-of-44-year-old-woman

I guess this means that the police can now target and potentially kill unarmed white men?

The truth is none of this matters as to how a police officer should behave, presumption of innocence, minimum force etc etc. The police get protection under law(if I murder a police officer the crime is higher than if I murder an ordinary citizen) therefore they have a responsibility to uphold a higher standard. They are also supplied with weapons and permission to use them, this also comes with a higher expectation of moral action from the police.

What in gods name does Africa have to do with any of this?

Because the majority of the continent is black? And #blacklivesmatter apparently.

extra gravy

ricero wrote: »

Vile stuff tearing down that statue. This new wave ideology is becoming more and more dangerous every year. When you start to delete history you set a dangerous precedent.

There's a difference between deleting history and glorifying it. Do you disagree with the removal of the Robert E Lee statue in Richmond for example?

Tell me how

bloodless_coup wrote: »

An example? George Floyd.

Zero evidence of racism involved. The context of his violent criminal in history is ignored. The context of what happened before the video is ignored.

Yet for black on white, you require a full analysis of the context of the attack before you'd even consider it to be racially motivated, but even then I'm sure some you'd drag up some socio-economic circumstances as mitigating factors.

The protests aren't just for GF, the accusations of racism are not because of a single event. They are both the culmination of decades of these types of events being carried out by prejudiced police forces.

Your last paragraph is just another strawman.

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

Are you guys saying that you don't understand what systemic racism is, or that it doesn't exist?

At the moment when Chauvin was kneeling on Floyd's neck, he most likely wasn't thinking that 'I'm going to kill this black man', but when he probably heard the call from his dispatcher that 'a black mail is causing a disturbance' or whatever way it was phrased, at that point, his strategy for dealing with Floyd was probably subconsciously selected.

The reason that there is outrage and protests, is because people are recognizing that there is an inherent bias in how police forces in the US prepare to deal with potential criminals based on their race and/or the location in which they live or the crime is being committed.

but you have no idea if that happened or not, you have literally just come up with that out of nowhere to justify adding race to this incident. the idea that inside any given police officer there is an inherent subconscious bias that makes them decide to get heavy handed with black men is certainly existing and can be proven in previous cases, but theres no assessment you can make on a single incident to say that its present in this or any other random police officer in the US.

cops in the US absolutely profile areas, as would any police officer, the resources and attitude you need to bring to an assault in darndale is way different to what you need to bring to a fender bender in dalkey.

joseywhales

weldoninhio wrote: »

Because the majority of the continent is black? And #blacklivesmatter apparently.

They are protesting institutional(see education, housing, jobs and police) racism. Whether or not there are crimes committed in Africa or by black people on black people in America does not change how these institutions should work.

Drumpot

joe40 wrote: »

From your post it looks like police reform is desperately needed for all communities in the US.

Crime follows poverty, so this whole thing is tied up with inequality, lack of education, lack of health care etc
A whole range of issues affecting especially poorer communities. Poverty doesn't exclusively affect the black community but they are badly hit.

Sure wasnt marijuana made illegal so they could lock up more black people? War on drugs is a racist war.

RasTa

ricero wrote: »

Vile stuff tearing down that statue. This new wave ideology is becoming more and more dangerous every year. When you start to delete history you set a dangerous precedent.

So Saddam and Nelson should have stayed up then?

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

cops in the US absolutely profile areas, as would any police officer, the resources and attitude you need to bring to an assault in darndale is way different to what you need to bring to a fender bender in dalkey.

And there is the self perpetuating cycle which those in disenfranchised communities seek and struggle to break out of.

Thank you for showing exactly how and why the protests are recognized and supported worldwide.

weldoninhio

joseywhales wrote: »

They are protesting institutional(see education, housing, jobs and police) racism. Whether or not there are crimes committed in Africa or by black people on black people in America does not change how these institutions should work.

From their own website. Capitalisation is mine. Last time I checked, Africa was in the world.

We’ve committed to struggling together and to imagining and creating a WORLD free of anti-Blackness, where every Black person has the social, economic, and political power to thrive.

walshb

What is the end result of all this?

Will it be a case of the cops saying shag it, we can’t do our jobs because there may be some affected person, persons, group, groups that will slate us and arrange mass protests, that turn to destruction..

In society, and with people you will never have a perfect system.

Is there a strong chance here that all these OTT protestations will significantly weaken law and order, in turn, weakening society, and meaning less protection for people...?

Cops afraid to fooking fart in case they’re accused of brutality...

nullzero

Drumpot wrote: »

Sure wasnt marijuana made illegal so they could lock up more black people? War on drugs is a racist war.

I've heard that in America the charges for possession of crack cocaine are much harsher for those of possession of cocaine, thus creating a situation where poorer (often black) people end up being disproportionately sent to prison when compared to the richer (often white) people who use the more expensive cocaine.

The there's the whole prison industrial complex issue, which has been conspicuously absent from this discussion.

Odhinn

bloodless_coup wrote: »

An example? George Floyd.

Zero evidence of racism involved. The context of his violent criminal in history is ignored. The context of what happened before the video is ignored.

Yet for black on white, you require a full analysis of the context of the attack before you'd even consider it to be racially motivated, but even then I'm sure some you'd drag up some socio-economic circumstances as mitigating factors.

He offered little to no resistance, and what he may or may not have done in the past is irrelevant and unlikely to be known to the cops at the time anyway.

walshb

Have any of these anti police groups written down a list of demands?

Solutions? Protocols? Procedures?

Or is it the vague and dull and easy demand to shout, stop police “brutality?“

Shouting black lives matter? Is this it?

jibber5000

joe40 wrote: »

Exactly, if Floyd was an isolated incident then you could not call it racially motivated. It is the trend and patterns over many years that people are protesting.
And it could well be the attack on Floyd wasn't racially motivated maybe Chauvin is just a psychopath killer. It is not just the killings it is the response from the authorities, the lack of accountability.

I have also heard the argument that white people suffer just as much from police brutality, well if that is the case surely these protests will ultimately benefit everyone if effective police reforms are a result.

In 2015, 38 unarmed black men were killed by police, by 2019 that had reduced to 9.

https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/police-killing-of-blacks/

There will always be really bad cops and they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Now despite the above facts that things are massively improving, BLM want the police force in America disbanded. It's ludicrous.

Tell me how

walshb wrote: »

What is the end result of all this?

Will it be a case of the cops saying shag it, we can’t do our jobs because there may be some affected person, persons, group, groups that will slate us and arrange mass protests, that turn to destruction..

In society, and with people you will never have a perfect system.

Is there a strong chance here that all these OTT protestations will significantly weaken law and order, in turn, weakening society, and meaning less protection for people...?

Cops afraid to fooking fart in case they’re accused of brutality...

Interesting that you don't see a path which would include police forces reappearing just how they do their jobs.

This, like the climate are conversation, is much bigger than simple blase statements that misrepresent the situation.

The US system of for profit prisons, underfunded public education systems, social class disparities are all elements which culminate in events which are now being processed against. A simple focus on police training will not fix everything but it would be a start.

lawrencesummers

bloodless_coup wrote: »

An example? George Floyd.

Zero evidence of racism involved. The context of his violent criminal in history is ignored. The context of what happened before the video is ignored.

Yet for black on white, you require a full analysis of the context of the attack before you'd even consider it to be racially motivated, but even then I'm sure some you'd drag up some socio-economic circumstances as mitigating factors.

So people who are suspected of committing a crime should be restrained according to their previous criminal history? The longer their criminal record the longer you can restrict their ability to breath ?

Just from a practicality point of view because it may be difficult to establish those facts in real time during a possible arrest maybe people who have committed a crime that warrant their arrest to be overly forceful should be required to identify themselves in some way. Maybe shave their heads, tattoo a number on their forearm and have them Required by law to wear a yellow armband?

Tell me how

jibber5000 wrote: »

In 2015, 38 unarmed black men were killed by police, by 2019 that had reduced to 9.

https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/police-killing-of-blacks/

There will always be really bad cops and they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Now despite the above facts that things are massively improving, BLM want the police force in America disbanded. It's ludicrous.

Can you point to where the BLM movement has called for a nationwide disbanding of police forces in the US.

joseywhales

weldoninhio wrote: »

From their own website. Capitalisation is mine. Last time I checked, Africa was in the world.

We’ve committed to struggling together and to imagining and creating a WORLD free of anti-Blackness, where every Black person has the social, economic, and political power to thrive.

Fair Enough, it is a global movement. Again though black people committing crimes against black people does not de legitimize their desire to have equality in the institutions they rely upon.

There is no reason for the police to kill an unarmed person, whether that person is a criminal, whether there is violence in Africa and even if some people kill some other people of the same race in Chicago.

Law enforcement , enforce the law, not intimidation.

niallo27

So what exactly is white privilege. I worked hard for everything I got, educated myself at my own cost. Should I feel privileged because I had this opportunity. Genuine question. This white privilege crap annoys me, class privilege definitely but I dont see race being a factor.

Odhinn

jibber5000 wrote: »

In 2015, 38 unarmed black men were killed by police, by 2019 that had reduced to 9.

https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/police-killing-of-blacks/

There will always be really bad cops and they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Now despite the above facts that things are massively improving, BLM want the police force in America disbanded. It's ludicrous.

Part of the problem is the proliferation of law enforcement forces. There's municipalitiy cops, county and state cops, then the federal cops - FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Homeland security.

Drumpot

I’d be interested to see statistics that could show how much of the correlation of crimes and arrests in USA is related to financial means. Like for example the average person on income below x with 2 children in jail or trouble with law and then a further breakdown of race once all numbers are crunched.

Whatever about race, USA is a terrible country to be a poor person. I appreciate more non whites are poor proportionately but I’m curious to know what it’s like for poor white people in comparison.

jibber5000

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you point to where the BLM movement has called for a nationwide disbanding of police forces in the US.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1268945330139209729

The most prominent liberal congresswoman in the US wants to disband the police force in Minneapolis.

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

And there is the self perpetuating cycle which those in disenfranchised communities seek and struggle to break out of.

Thank you for showing exactly how and why the protests are recognized and supported worldwide.

but theres never any protests for a more active police presence, for more enforcement which would rid these disenfranchised communities of crime, they're protesting to reduce police effectiveness in these areas and allow the crime to continue with impunity. 'Disenfranchised' communities want all the handouts and services but rarely want the same level of responsibility. The greatest thing the black panthers ever did for communities in America was acting as police and enforcing against drug dealers, pimps, thieves etc.. , they showed the world that when their own communities could reform that they could have a seat at the table for others to reform with them.

joe40

walshb wrote: »

What is the end result of all this?

Will it be a case of the cops saying shag it, we can’t do our jobs because there may be some affected person, persons, group, groups that will slate us and arrange mass protests, that turn to destruction..

In society, and with people you will never have a perfect system.

Is there a strong chance here that all these OTT protestations will significantly weaken law and order, in turn, weakening society, and meaning less protection for people...?

Cops afraid to fooking fart in case they’re accused of brutality...

You must have a very low opinion of the American police if the only way they can function is through the use of excessive force.
They could get training from UK or Germany or France or any police from European country that manage to carry out policing without killing their citizen's to such an extent.

No police force is perfect but is that the only two options perfection or what exists at the minute which is quite simply carnage.

Could you imagine the RUC at the height of the troubles when they were under constant attack doing what Chauvin did. And the RUC were far from perfect.

I imagine farting will always be allowed