George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Peregrinus

walshb wrote: »

That is nonsense. And your condoning this type of reaction and behavior is what is wrong. It is anarchy. And no civilized and democratic society can or should tolerate it.

If they tolerate what the police officers did, they don't have any choice but to put up with the resulting riots. That's a choice they are making.

And if they don't tolerate what the police officers did, then the riots won't result.

The riots are horrifying. But they are not the basic problem here, and they can't be effectively addressed in isolation.

walshb

joe40 wrote: »

We're agreed on Trump but even your use of the word "scum" shows zero effort to understand where the anger is coming from, to understand why people may behave in a certain way.
These riots were totally predictable and will get worse unless America gets to grips with it's policing issues.
We are only seeing the brutality that is filmed, that will only ever be a small sample.
That is difficult and requires societal change. Much easier to just call one group scum.

Predictable or not. It is scum behaviour.

Where does society draw the line for when rioting is justified or predicted?

A man lost his life. Society needs to address this through the democratic process that the people are, that the people voted in.

Nowhere in that deal does it say that rioting and looting and anarchy are forms of resolution.

These officers are being investigated..........

The people and their rioting and behaviors does them no good at all. It does nothing but weakens them as regards the views of others about them. It paints them as nothing but thugs, and sure why should we care about these types people???

They need to fight the injustice that they feel occurred with dignity and class and cohesion and harmony....that is what will have many other peoples applauding them and supporting them....everyone will.....

They will lose a lot of support by behaving like wild animals.

Stateofyou

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/minneapolis-george-floyd-police-station-fire-protest-black-riots-latest-a9538091.html

A Minneapolis police station has been set on fire amid mounting protests over the killing by police of an unarmed black man.

Peregrinus

silverharp wrote: »

I'd say you are wrong, you are seeing this as a wedge issue, that keeps this problem from being solved, its good politics for a certain types.
As a contrast, when AIDS broke out in the 80's the gay community framed the issue as something that could effect everyone and by doing this everyone was motivated to combat AIDs.
White people are killed unnecessarily by Police too but the narrative and media narrative is to write them out of the story, so it will never get solved, rinse and repeat.

Honours students will note that the post to which you are replying dose snot mention ract at all. The problem is the same whether the police think they can murder anyone with impunity, or just black people with impunity. Either way, if you think the only problem is the riots that result, you are part of the problem.

Stateofyou

@walshb

This country was founded on a riot. And nearly all progress came from riots.
Sam Adams's "Sons of Liberty" riots in 1765 and the Boston Tea Party in 1773 led to Independence.
The Anti-Rent War in 1839, beginning with a riot of tenants repulsing a 500 person Sheriffs posse led to tenants rights being added to the New York constitution and the abolishment of a literally feudal rent system.
The Lager Beer riot of 1855 in Chicago by German and Irish immigrants partially reversed puritan rules on alcohol and forced reforms onto the Chicago Police Department. The Portland Rum Law by Irish immigrants the following year reversed prohibitions on alcohol in Maine.
The Great Railroad Strike in 1877 across multiple states and resulting in thousands of burned buildings, train engines, and freight cars, led to the first major employer offering pensions and healthcare, sick pay, and workmans comp.
The Haymarket Riot in 1877 is considered the most influential event in labor history. May 1st, celebrated by the entire world outside the US (for a reason) commemorates the Haymarket Riot. Riots, insurrections, and violence would mark the next eight decades of the labor movement resulting in pensions, worker safety, higher wages, the 8 hour day, the weekend, child labor laws, and the right to unionize.
The Suffragettes riot on March 3, 1913 is credited as the turning point in support of the 19th Amendment, leading to it's passage within the decade.
The Battle of Athens in 1946, primarily by armed WW2 veterans, against a corrupt local government resulted in resignation (and sometimes flight) of nearly every cop and politician of Athens, Tennessee, as well as massive voting reforms.
Dozens of high profile riots erupted during the Civil Rights movement, in nearly every major city across the country, and played a major part in forcing the state and politicians to act.
The Stonewall riots in 1969 kicked off the LGBT movement and are the reason for PRIDE celebrations to this day. Pride literally commemorates the riots.
The FTAA trade protests and riots in 2003 shut down the FTAA meetings and contributed to the FTAA failing and being scrapped.
And this is just a sampling. Worth noting that nearly all of these actions were condemned and opposed, mainly by white folks, conservative and liberal, at the time. Once years have passed and the event can be sanitized enough for a brand to sponsor it people pretend they would have supported it at the time. But they wouldn't. They never would have. They never will.
Dr. King, who stated "A Riot is the language of the unheard" was the most hated man in America the day he died, according to Gallop polls.
Written by Adam Jung

ohnonotgmail

walshb wrote: »

That is nonsense. And your condoning this type of reaction and behavior is what is wrong. It is anarchy. And no civilized and democratic society can or should tolerate it.

police thinking they can kneel on the neck of a handcuffed man until he dies is what is wrong. his fellow police officers standing there and not intervening while he does that is what is wrong. Police putting their "brotherhood" over the life of a man is what is wrong.

Mantis Toboggan

Why was he arrested in the first place?

suicide_circus

police killing George Floyd is wrong.

people using that as an excuse to commit arson and looting is also wrong.

so that'd be two wrongs then

wandererz

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Why was he arrested in the first place?

Shopkeeper called cops based on suspected forged $20 note.

ohnonotgmail

suicide_circus wrote: »

police killing George Floyd is wrong.

people using that as an excuse to commit arson and looting is also wrong.

so that'd be two wrongs then

one is a much greater wrong than the other. i'm sure you can figure out which one is which.

BASHIR

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Why was he arrested in the first place?

Misread the question. I believe they suspected him of forging a cheque. then was not compliant. Bull**** really

suicide_circus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

one is a much greater wrong than the other. i'm sure you can figure out which one is which.

i can yes but its not a competition

silverharp

Peregrinus wrote: »

Honours students will note that the post to which you are replying dose snot mention ract at all. The problem is the same whether the police think they can murder anyone with impunity, or just black people with impunity. Either way, if you think the only problem is the riots that result, you are part of the problem.

you are by default asserting that black people should riot when something bad happens in one of their areas, as I don't think white people riot when the police something bad you seem content with the status quo. honours are easy ;-) I'm aiming for an A grade

walshb

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

one is a much greater wrong than the other. i'm sure you can figure out which one is which.

Sorry, both are wrong.

Looting and rioting and anarchy, which can, and does cause loss of life is very very very wrong...

These police officers will be investigated........

There is no need whatsoever for the mayhem happening...

Like I said, where do we draw the line.....

Do we now turn a blind eye to, and even encourage anarchy for any "wrong" that is perceived to be done by the police?

You'd have people here condoning rioting for the way our Gardai handled the water protesters with some people....

ohnonotgmail

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, both are wrong.

Looting and rioting and anarchy, which can, and does cause loss of life is very very very wrong...

These police officers will be investigated........

There is no need whatsoever for the mayhem happening...

Like I said, where do we draw the line.....

Do we now turn a blind eye to, and even encourage anarchy for any "wrong" that is perceived to be done by the police?

You'd have people here condoning rioting for the way our Gardai handled the water protesters with some people....

you spent most of yesterday trying to say that Floyd was resisting arrest. trying to find some way to justify what happened. The real problem is people like you.

Stateofyou

silverharp wrote: »

you are by default asserting that black people should riot when something bad happens in one of their areas, as I don't think white people riot when the police something bad you seem content with the status quo. honours are easy ;-) I'm aiming for an A grade

White people don't need to riot because this brutality isn't happening to them disproportionately. Look at the arrests of violent white men. Saw a picture yesterday of one handcuffed sitting on the ground being given water to sip by a cop from a bottle. Cops bought Dylan Roof Burger King after a peaceful arrest after he killed 9 people in a church praying. So on and so forth.

walshb

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you spent most of yesterday trying to say that Floyd was resisting arrest. trying to find some way to justify what happened. The real problem is people like you.

Well, the investigation will deal with all that....

There is no justification for the looting and anarchy and rioting.

ohnonotgmail

walshb wrote: »

Well, the investigation will deal with all that....

There is no justification for the looting and anarchy and rioting.

you went looking for some way to justify what happened. you are part of the problem. that you cannot see that is another part of the problem.

BASHIR

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, both are wrong.

Looting and rioting and anarchy, which can, and does cause loss of life is very very very wrong...

These police officers will be investigated........

There is no need whatsoever for the mayhem happening...

Like I said, where do we draw the line.....

Do we now turn a blind eye to, and even encourage anarchy for any "wrong" that is perceived to be done by the police?

You'd have people here condoning rioting for the way our Gardai handled the water protesters with some people....

Have a read of this if you have time it might change your mind.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

walshb

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you went looking for some way to justify what happened. you are part of the problem. that you cannot see that is another part of the problem.

Not justify, explain why the cop did what he did..

Nuance is lost here........what made that cop restrain that man the way he did...?

Either he "had" to in his mind, he didn't have to, but wanted to hurt the man, or even end the man's life....all questions I'd like answers to.

After watching the videos I would think that the cop was just a nasty individual. I am with you on this.....I just don't know all the facts.

Anyway, that will, or should be handled by a detailed investigation..

Back to the rioting.......

suicide_circus

the protests are completely legitimate.

the robbery and arson are not.

let's seperate the two.

seamus

"Now that people are rioting, we can just call it an eye for an eye and leave it at that".

This is basically the narrative, for those who are engaging in it.

Spontaneous rioting of this type occurs when people don't feel like they're being heard. When peaceful protestors are met with heavily-armed police. This rioting is not about George Floyd. That's the straw.

One can both condemn the rioting and condemn the murder of Floyd. But one can also see the cause and effect here. If there wasn't systemic racism in the US justice system, if black people were treated equally by police, by government and by employers, there would be no riots over George Floyd's death. Because the official response would be different. The national response would be different. And the black communities wouldn't have been on a knife-edge already.

The riots are no doubt the last thing he would have wanted. But they are understandable. And they must not be allowed to be used as an excuse to sweep this matter away; transfer the officers somewhere else and give them new IDs.

It's 28 years since the LA riots, and the US hasn't learned a damn thing.

BASHIR

walshb wrote: »

Not justify, explain why the cop did what he did..

Nuance is lost here........what made that cop restrain that man the way he did...?

Either he "had" to in his mind, he didn't have to, but wanted to hurt the man, or even end the man's life....all questions I'd like answers to.

After watching the videos I would think that the cop was just a nasty individual. I am with you on this.....I just don't know all the facts.

Anyway, that will, or should be handled by a detailed investigation..

Back to the rioting.......

That's the problem, it wasn't until a video emerged on social media of it. and he still wasn't arrested. Still no charges filed. Still sitting in his home.

When they protested peacefully two days ago they were hit wit tear gas.
Meanwhile last month April. You had white militia with military weapons storming a governors office. Protesting over lockdown measures and nothing done.

The difference in the treatment of it's citizens is so obvious to us imagine having to live there.

Limpy

Trump comes in late with the petrol can. Rich White man knows best.

walshb

suicide_circus wrote: »

the protests are completely legitimate.

the robbery and arson are not.

let's seperate the two.

Yes

Can people seriously not protest these days with some decorum, class, education, articulation, poise, measure, restraint, camaraderie?

Is it just straight to shouting and roaring and looting and rioting and destruction?

ohnonotgmail

walshb wrote: »

Yes

Can people seriously not protest these days with some decorum, class, education, articulation, poise, measure, restraint, camaraderie?

Is it just straight to shouting and roaring and looting and rioting and destruction?

yeah they tried that at the first protest and the police fired rubber bullets at them. maybe they should have shown up armed to the teeth. the police seem to be very respectful of armed citizens. or maybe it is just white citizens they are respectful to.

BASHIR

Sticking this prick on ignore replied to him numerous times yet the above shows hes a troll gobsh!te

MFPM

suicide_circus wrote: »

police killing George Floyd is wrong.

people using that as an excuse to commit arson and looting is also wrong.

so that'd be two wrongs then

That's overly simplistic, you're completely ignoring the differing power dynamics at play; you're also ignoring the systemic racism at the heart of law enforcement throughout the US which is a key factor as to why these riots occur.

Martin Luther King, no supporter of rioting I think we can agree made an important point on riots when stating that 'A riot is the language of the unheard' - I think there is much merit in that statement.

Billy Mays

Peaceful protest against police brutality on the African American community clearly hasn't worked

The last high profile peaceful protest ended up in the guy being called a son of a bitch and told to leave the country by the US president of all people. And he lost his job.

suicide_circus

the police are saying a lot of the looters are coming in from outside the city.

i would also suggest that the whole covid situation with restrictions has severely exacerbated the situation with a massive surge in unemployment and general frustration.