George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

2u2me

hetuzozaho wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

See you've now just jumped from the facts we agree on (disparities seen between black and white people) straight to "It's because racism".

What about what John Ogbu concluded in his book?

Black students' own cultural attitudes sometimes hindered academic achievement and that these attitudes are too often neglected.

Do you think this has anything to do with the disparities we see?

hetuzozaho

2u2me wrote: »

See you've now just jumped from the facts we agree on (disparities seen between black and white people) straight to "It's because racism".

What about what John Ogbu concluded in his book?



Do you think this has anything to do with the disparities we see?

Yup sure sounds like it could do.

Do you think it could have anything to do with the systemic racism suggested in the wiki link?

2u2me

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Yup sure sounds like it could do.

Do you think it could have anything to do with the systemic racism suggested in the wiki link?

There were many sections in that wiki link, which part are you referring to? I don't mean to be obtuse, I just don't like the loaded words you are using "sytemic racism" that are coming out of places like intersectionality. They purposefully ill define their terms.

For example I disagree with this part:

Institutional racism is the differential access to the goods, services, and opportunities of society.

hetuzozaho

2u2me wrote: »

There were many sections in that wiki link, which part are you referring to?

For example I disagree with this part:

I suppose just the idea in general.

Say this kind of stuff is mentioned:
"One example of the difference is public school budgets in the U.S. (including local levies and bonds) and the quality of teachers, which are often correlated with property values: rich neighborhoods are more likely to be more 'white' and to have better teachers and more money for education, even in public schools. Restrictive housing contracts and bank lending policies have also been listed as forms of institutional racism. Other examples sometimes described as institutional racism are racial profiling by security guards and police, use of stereotyped racial caricatures, the under- and misrepresentation of certain racial groups in the mass media, and race-based barriers to gainful employment and professional advancement. Additionally, differential access to goods, services, and opportunities of society can be included within the term institutional racism, such as unpaved streets and roads, inherited socio-economic disadvantage, and "standardized" tests (each ethnic group prepared for it differently; many are poorly prepared).[10]"

hetuzozaho

2u2me wrote: »

There were many sections in that wiki link, which part are you referring to? I don't mean to be obtuse, I just don't like the loaded words you are using "sytemic racism" that are coming out of places like intersectionality. They purposefully ill define their terms.

For example I disagree with this part:

Cool.
Are there any parts you would agree with?

2u2me

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Cool.
Are there any parts you would agree with?

I'd say the historical context. Slavery, Jim Crowe laws. Their move towards a post-integration society surely didn't leave things equal.

I just don't see the utility in concentrating on this, sure definitely acknowlege it, but I try to focus on things that can be fixed.
Other minorities have shown it is possible.

hetuzozaho

2u2me wrote: »

I'd say the historical context. Slavery, Jim Crowe laws. Their move towards a post-integration society surely didn't leave things equal.

I just don't see the utility in concentrating on this, sure definitely acknowlege it, but I try to focus on things that can be fixed.
Other minorities have shown it is possible.

Oh I wasn't concentrating on how to fix. I wouldn't know where to start Just reading on why the disparities exist due to it currently being in the news.. And I found the institutional/systemic racism articles to be definetly something that clicks logically in my head Is all. And just when you were talking about the disparities and asking why I chimed in.

lawrencesummers

2u2me wrote: »

Do you really think there are only two possibilities? How about the socio-economic background, more black people are poor, less likely to be 3rd level educated.

How about the culture for black people that if they are studious and work hard in school that they're 'acting white', betraying their culture. Do you think this has any part to play in the disparities we see?

Maybe take a look at John Ogbu's book, "Black American Students in An Affluent Suburb: A Study of Academic Disengagement" where he concluded:

You can’t explain the disparity of business success among a large cohort of the population with a cultural phenomenon.

The system in America makes it more difficult for black people to access the same level of education, therefore they remain poorer, and the cycle continues. Have a look at what redlining has done and that will explain a lot of it.

2u2me

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The system in America makes it more difficult for blackpoor people to access the same level of education, therefore they remain poorer, and the cycle continues. Have a look at what redlining has done and that will explain a lot of it.

But that's just it; they remain poorer. There have also been many poor white families for generations and the numbers are only increasing. It is this poorness that indirectly leads to most of the problems we're seeing. Which is experienced by more black people, but experienced by black and white people alike. But instead of the poor getting together and voting, they're being split along racial lines.

US2

2u2me wrote: »

A dead man can't defend himself. He was being investigated for $20 note.

Do you believe that criminals can reform? Or should we shoot everyone.

You couldnt answer yes or no. Says it all

The Floyd p

US2 wrote: »

You couldnt answer yes or no. Says it all

I'll answer! It doesn't matter.

US2

The Floyd p wrote: »

I'll answer! It doesn't matter.

It really does

2u2me

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I suppose just the idea in general.

"One example of the difference is public school budgets in the U.S. (including local levies and bonds) and the quality of teachers, which are often correlated with property values: rich neighborhoods are more likely to be more 'white' and to have better teachers and more money for education, even in public schools. Restrictive housing contracts and bank lending policies have also been listed as forms of institutional racism. Other examples sometimes described as institutional racism are racial profiling by security guards and police, use of stereotyped racial caricatures, the under- and misrepresentation of certain racial groups in the mass media, and race-based barriers to gainful employment and professional advancement. Additionally, differential access to goods, services, and opportunities of society can be included within the term institutional racism, such as unpaved streets and roads, inherited socio-economic disadvantage, and "standardized" tests (each ethnic group prepared for it differently; many are poorly prepared).[10]"

Sorry just caught your edit:

A lot of this comes down to subjective experience. The problem is these experiences can form paradoxs when you note that poor white people experiences the same problems.

Every culture has racial stereotypes; from Homer Simpson to Barney Gumble and Dr. Hibbert to Carl Carlson.

About the representation: Equality of opportunity regularly leads to disparate outcomes.

There are certainly individual racists out there acting on their racism no doubt, I'd say the number is small and only decreasing.

Haven't seen his criminal record? Can someone link it or post it?

The Floyd p

US2 wrote: »

It really does

In a conversation centered around him being murdered by the police, it really, and I can't stress this enough, does not matter at all if he was convicted of 0 crimes or 100.

2u2me

The New York Times is going full Evergreen College:

The progressive SJW's have taken up their arms. Washington Post also more quitely.

Looked it up.. Jaysus..

2u2me

Officers chased by group of rioters outside Whitehall. Worrying images.

lawrencesummers

2u2me wrote: »

But that's just it; they remain poorer. There have also been many poor white families for generations and the numbers are only increasing. It is this poorness that indirectly leads to most of the problems we're seeing. Which is experienced by more black people, but experienced by black and white people alike. But instead of the poor getting together and voting, they're being split along racial lines.

That’s one aspect of it, it’s correct to say it’s a socio-economic problem, but there are many other elements to the problems in America, the disparity of prison population, the tactics of police, the ratio of drug users to drug convictions. Etc etc.

Police brutality against blacks is very well documented. Just because it also happens to others doesn’t lessen it.

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

Haven't seen his criminal record? Can someone link it or post it?

Does it matter? How does his record, or lack thereof mean he should be treated any differently? Or are you just grasping at straws to justify his murder?

If he has a thousand or no convictions shouldn’t he be arrested by police using the same procedures each and every time with the minimium necessary force?

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Does it matter? How does his record, or lack thereof mean he should be treated any differently? Or are you just grasping at straws to justify his murder?

If he has a thousand or no convictions shouldn’t he be arrested by police using the same procedures each and every time with the minimium necessary force?

Yeah. Why do you think I'm trying to justify it?

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah. Why do you think I'm trying to justify it?

It’s the only reason I can think of that somebody would want to know something irrelevant to this situation.

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s the only reason I can think of that somebody would want to know something irrelevant to this situation.

That's pretty cynical. The world has tried to move to ignoring killers and focusing on the victims of these murders and mass shootings.

If you think the only reason someone may actually have a cursory glance at the victim's life is to justify their death, you really should spend less time online and you definitely shouldn't accuse people of what you accused me of. It's exceptionally scummy behaviour.

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

That's pretty cynical. The world has tried to move to ignoring killers and focusing on the victims of these murders and mass shootings.

If you think the only reason someone may actually have a cursory glance at the victim's life is to justify their death, you really should spend less time online and you definitely shouldn't accuse people of what you accused me of. It's exceptionally scummy behaviour.

Accusations don’t end in question marks.

Try taking some of your own advice.

extra gravy

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Switching from Twitter into Boards.ie is like walking into a catholic Ireland 60 years ago. This site is one of the most censored and heavily moderated platforms I've ever encountered online. Highly reflective of what Ireland is now, pendulums swing in extremes in both directions over time. We've hit the other extreme. Neither extreme is pleasant nor rational.

There's a difference between censorship versus ensuring civil debate. I was giving a warning the other day for being uncivil, which was totally justified and I have no issue with it. I'd rather this system than somewhere that allows a messy free for all without any consequences.

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Accusations don’t end in question marks.

Try taking some of your own advice.

Accusations and inferences can absolutely end with a question mark.

But you knew that already didn't you?

"Are you cheating on me?"

"How dare you accuse me of that!?"

"That wasn't an accusation. Accusations don't end in question marks."

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

Accusations and inferences can absolutely end with a question mark.

But you knew that already didn't you?

So do questions. I asked a question. The poster got offended, that’s their problem not mine, and it’s pretty clear from the lack of any alternative reason given that the motivation is as I suspected.

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

"Are you cheating on me?" Question

"How dare you accuse me of that!?" Statement

"That wasn't an accusation. Accusations don't end in question marks."

So...

owlbethere

2u2me wrote: »

Officers chased by group of rioters outside Whitehall. Worrying images.

That's only happening next door to us in the UK. That's absolutely despicable towards the police in London. How is the police force in London comparable to the police force in America and the police brutality over there? George was killed in Minnesota. How is the police in London guilty by association?