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George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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    #7502
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    owlbethere wrote: »
    That's only happening next door to us in the UK. That's absolutely despicable towards the police in London. How is the police force in London comparable to the police force in America and the police brutality over there? George was killed in Minnesota. How is the police in London guilty by association?

    It really is

    Clap for the front line one week

    Pelt them with objects the next


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    #7503
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    The Irish in the north rioted to demand equality, something blacks in US already have. The second part of what they did was get educated, something blacks in the US have the option of.

    I would say that they got the education first , at secondary level and then on to third level as a result of the Education Acts of the mid 40s. The main Civil Rights leaders in the North, Hume Currie. McCann, Devlin, Mallon etc had third level education and were able to identify the inequalities ( as everyone knew) but were able to identify what was needed to change the system of employment allocation, housing allocation etc. Demand for a United Ireland was well down the list.


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    #7504
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,281 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    It really is

    Clap for the front line one week

    Pelt them with objects the next

    A lot of groups with the ‘celebrate frontline heroes’ posts, the graphics or lists always left police out, theres a lot of resentment for police from these groups who applaud protests


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    #7505
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Haven't seen his criminal record? Can someone link it or post it?
    His criminal record is not relevant. The police force have training in how to overcome and subdue prisoners that resist arrest. Once handcuffed and on the ground there should be no need to kneel on the neck and. restrict breathing.
    If a criminal produces a firearm to resist arrest, be he black, white, brown, yellow, I have no difficulty with him being taken down.


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    #7506
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TBH, I really hoping that the Police do step back, stop going to work, and allow the communities to deal with everything themselves. It'll be interesting to see how long before people demand a police force to return.


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    #7507
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    TBH, I really hoping that the Police do step back, stop going to work, and allow the communities to deal with everything themselves. It'll be interesting to see how long before people demand a police force to return.

    The organizers of the rally’s need to step up, the protesters need to police themselves, otherwise they are infiltrated by every anti establishment element around.

    Every rally should have a designated owner and should be in communication with police, common ground should be reached when both police and protesters agree that elements should be ejected.

    If somebody is ejected/arrested then it should be made clear that it was at the request of the protesters.


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    #7508
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    2u2me wrote: »
    Officers chased by group of rioters outside Whitehall. Worrying images.

    There's someone there talking to the camera and I'm going to quote him a little bit: "after being oppressed for a long time".

    How can he say he is oppressed living in London? They are allowed to go out and protest while the rest of us have restrictions to abide by.

    Considering all of this is tipping into Ireland. The Irish are no strangers to oppression. We were oppressed for a long time from the Catholic Church and its only in recent times we are somewhat free from that oppression from the church but some of the effects of that oppression do linger on in some families.


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    #7509
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    begbysback wrote: »
    The organizers of the rally’s need to step up, the protesters need to police themselves, otherwise they are infiltrated by every anti establishment element around.

    Every rally should have a designated owner and should be in communication with police, common ground should be reached when both police and protesters agree that elements should be ejected.

    If somebody is ejected/arrested then it should be made clear that it was at the request of the protesters.

    No, I mean a full withdrawal. That's what the demands have been all about. Just pull the police back to areas where the general population want them there, and want to be policed by them. Leave the areas where people don't want them, and let them manage themselves.

    Let them actually experience what they're pushing for. Hell, maybe they might create a better alternative. I doubt it, but it's possible,


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    #7510
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    I think also what needs to happen now, is for someone smart or someone clever to come up with a new slogan for protesters to chant away from what they have been chanting so far: 'No Justice, No Peace'.
    The 'No Peace' element of that slogan is nearly giving rioters a licence to be hostile and carry out that rioting.


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    #7511
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No, I mean a full withdrawal. That's what the demands have been all about. Just pull the police back to areas where the general population want them there, and want to be policed by them. Leave the areas where people don't want them, and let them manage themselves.

    Let them actually experience what they're pushing for. Hell, maybe they might create a better alternative. I doubt it, but it's possible,

    But you can’t just not police areas, business and property needs to be protected. And you can’t just not police areas to prove a point. Protesters & police need to communicate. It’s an awful state in the US because each state is autonomous, great communication and work done in one state with police interacting with protesters can easily be overwritten by police brutality in another state.

    There needs to be standards for protesting across all states, unfortunately this needs to come from the very top where an incompetent president resides.


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    #7512
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No, I mean a full withdrawal. That's what the demands have been all about. Just pull the police back to areas where the general population want them there, and want to be policed by them. Leave the areas where people don't want them, and let them manage themselves.

    Let them actually experience what they're pushing for. Hell, maybe they might create a better alternative. I doubt it, but it's possible,

    The choice shouldn't be an unaccountable police force that literally get away with murder or no police/protection at all.
    I'm sure there are many fine men and women in the police but they're been tarnished by the actions of a few, and a culture of overly macho and militarised policing

    Interesting development in Minneapolis. I can't see it coming to anything, but major reform is needed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/minneapolis-city-council-defund-police-george-floyd


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    #7513
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    joe40 wrote: »
    The choice shouldn't be an unaccountable police force that literally get away with murder or no police/protection at all.
    I'm sure there are many fine men and women in the police but they're been tarnished by the actions of a few, and a culture of overly macho and militarised policing

    Interesting development in Minneapolis. I can't see it coming to anything, but major reform is needed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/minneapolis-city-council-defund-police-george-floyd

    There are such double standards at play here.

    Few police are absolute tools = defund the police

    Few protesters loot, assault officers etc = protests are mostly peaceful


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    #7514
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,948 ✭✭✭Christy42


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    There are such double standards at play here.

    Few police are absolute tools = defund the police

    Few protesters loot, assault officers etc = protests are mostly peaceful

    Few? We have a large chunk of Buffalo on that list. However in any case the police are meant to be the more organised group than protestors who don't have a hiring process.


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    #7515
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    i'm just wondering are we entering militant black guy territory as in if any person in authority so much as questions a black person he/she will be accused of racism??


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    #7516
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,486 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    fryup wrote: »
    i'm just wondering are we entering militant black guy territory as in if any person in authority so much as questions a black person he/she will be accused of racism??

    All this way OTT slating and condemnation (and particularly by media/political commentators and people in power, all to be seen to be on the side of good and moral) is doing nothing but weakening society and law and order

    Cops will be very wary no matter what the issue now, and because of this, people will suffer an awful lot more than the claims being bandied about today

    For the absolute majority of police incidents, they act on behaviors, not colors....

    The cops have more effing things to be doing than sitting around and plotting how they can piss off the black community...

    Do folks really think that white and black cops are plotting day in and day out on how to disproportionately target black people?


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    #7517
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,405 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    walshb wrote: »
    All this way OTT slating and condemnation (and particularly by media/political commentators and people in power, all to be seen to be on the side of good and moral) is doing nothing but weakening society and law and order

    Cops will be very wary no matter what the issue now, and because of this, people will suffer an awful lot more than the claims being bandied about today

    For the absolute majority of police incidents, they act on behaviors, not colors....

    The cops have more effing things to be doing than sitting around and plotting how they can piss off the black community...

    Do folks really think that white and black cops are plotting day in and day out on how to disproportionately target black people?

    perhaps the police need to be more wary? at the moment they seem to think they can do what they want and get away with it. they do it while cameras are rolling because they know there wont be repurcussions.


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    #7518
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,235 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    walshb wrote: »
    Do folks really think that white and black cops are plotting day in and day out on how to disproportionately target black people?

    Nobody is saying that.

    But it's more worrying that it comes naturally to some of them and isn't premeditated. As if there's inherent racism within america. Which is what this is about.
    Untitled Image




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    #7519
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,592 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    So sad seeing all the violence in recent days. I feel what started as being very well intentioned has turned into something that will do more harm for the cause than if nothing happened at all.

    We really are creating an us and them mentality. Highlighting how we are different but wanting us to be the same. No way you can have an equal society when this is happening.


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    #7520
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    joe40 wrote: »
    The choice shouldn't be an unaccountable police force that literally get away with murder or no police/protection at all.

    Except that the police are accountable for their actions. Reviews are made, and police officers have been convicted due to past behavior. That the processes in place aren't effective enough (for many reasons), doesn't mean that they're unaccountable.

    I'd love to see something beyond complaining. I'm seeing a lot of demands for change, but little in the way of specifics, that are grounded in reality. Instead, the demands are made as if they can magically be made effective just because they're coming from the protesters.


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    #7521
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    perhaps the police need to be more wary? at the moment they seem to think they can do what they want and get away with it. they do it while cameras are rolling because they know there wont be repurcussions.

    The Police is a broad statement, and very unfair on thousands who do their job well globally, often in awful conditions.

    Is that everywhere or a very specific sub section of the police in America?


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    #7522
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    walshb wrote: »
    All this way OTT slating and condemnation (and particularly by media/political commentators and people in power, all to be seen to be on the side of good and moral) is doing nothing but weakening society and law and order

    Cops will be very wary no matter what the issue now, and because of this, people will suffer an awful lot more than the claims being bandied about today

    For the absolute majority of police incidents, they act on behaviors, not colors....

    The cops have more effing things to be doing than sitting around and plotting how they can piss off the black community...

    Do folks really think that white and black cops are plotting day in and day out on how to disproportionately target black people?

    This will all blow over after this dam virus and lockdown,
    people are losing their minds if they think the world is racist.
    I don't see any lynching these days, i work with people of all colours
    and we're all friends i don't even see colour and they get treated exactly the same.


  • Options
    #7523
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,405 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    The Police is a broad statement, and very unfair on thousands who do their job well globally, often in awful conditions.

    Is that everywhere or a very specific sub section of the police in America?

    i posted a link earlier in the thread with (at the time) 301 documented instances of police brutality during the recent protests. and it isnt just the officers directly involved. the officers working with them watch while they do it. The entire ERT team in Buffalo PD resigned when the officer who pushed over a 75 year old man and cracked his head was suspended.all 57 of them. it is not just a few bad apples. the police in the US use the motto "Protect and serve". they dont seem to be doing that.


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    #7524
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    2u2me wrote: »
    Sorry just caught your edit:

    I don't think I edited it.
    2u2me wrote: »
    A lot of this comes down to subjective experience. The problem is these experiences can form paradoxs when you note that poor white people experiences the same problems.


    I don't think it's subjective. I don't understand the paradoxes you speak of?
    2u2me wrote: »
    Every culture has racial stereotypes; from Homer Simpson to Barney Gumble and Dr. Hibbert to Carl Carlson.

    Yup. I love the classic era Simpsons. :)
    2u2me wrote: »
    About the representation: Equality of opportunity regularly leads to disparate outcomes.

    Ok
    2u2me wrote: »
    There are certainly individual racists out there acting on their racism no doubt, I'd say the number is small and only decreasing.

    Possibly, I don't have the figures.

    I think we agree anyway, I feel you don't like the use of the word racism is all, so we can just come up with another term :)

    As you say:
    2u2me wrote: »
    How about the socio-economic background, more black people are poor, less likely to be 3rd level educated.

    and
    2u2me wrote: »
    I'd say the historical context. Slavery, Jim Crowe laws. Their move towards a post-integration society surely didn't leave things equal.


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    #7525
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    begbysback wrote: »
    But you can’t just not police areas, business and property needs to be protected. And you can’t just not police areas to prove a point. Protesters & police need to communicate. It’s an awful state in the US because each state is autonomous, great communication and work done in one state with police interacting with protesters can easily be overwritten by police brutality in another state.

    So it's about wanting a police force that is completely incapable of any degree of abuse. That's a fantasy.

    The protesters have called for a withdrawal of funds from the police and a reduction of police presence. The more violent groups have attacked the police physically. I say the police should just withdraw and let the protesters experience what life would be like without their presence, flawed as it is.

    As for you can't not police areas, I would have said you can't attack police officers, steal, or burn buildings, and have people justify such behavior.. but it seems you can. The rule book has been thrown out the window.
    There needs to be standards for protesting across all states, unfortunately this needs to come from the very top where an incompetent president resides.

    That's a cop out, in itself. He's the president. Not the sole authority on every aspect of running the country. There are organisations that deal with such things. Change would come from them, not the president, regardless of who he/she is....


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    #7526
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,486 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    ThewhiteJesus wrote: »
    This will all blow over after this dam virus and lockdown,
    people are losing their minds if they think the world is racist.
    I don't see any lynching these days, i work with people of all colours
    and we're all friends i don't even see colour and they get treated exactly the same.

    The world is racist.....but it's about levels.

    Humans are racist. Always have been and always will be....it's in our psyches to be

    The issue of stamping it out is utter nonsense. The issue should be living with it, managing it, exposing it, and limiting it

    Black, white, brown and any other color; they all are capable of racism...

    This current movement and drive is utter exaggerated nonsense....

    And an insult to many who experience actual racism...

    Like everything today, people are constantly looking for and searching for issues that aren't really there, or trying to blow issues way out of proportion

    BTW, the world is also kind and caring and compassionate and engaging and beautiful.....people are all this as well.


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    #7527
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The protesters have called for a withdrawal of funds from the police and a reduction of police presence. The more violent groups have attacked the police physically. I say the police should just withdraw and let the protesters experience what life would be like without their presence, flawed as it is.

    But we dont live by mob rule and the protesters are a fraction of the population in many of these areas


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    #7528
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,948 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I see Austin PD have had an outpouring of support from people who all share the same handwriting (to be fair there are like 2-3 different people's handwriting shown).

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Austin_Police/status/1269326118366183424


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    #7529
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Christy42 wrote: »
    I see Austin PD have had an outpouring of support from people who all share the same handwriting (to be fair there are like 2-3 different people's handwriting shown).

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Austin_Police/status/1269326118366183424

    Please tell me they addressed it and there's a reasonable explanation :o


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    #7530
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,405 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Please tell me they addressed it and there's a reasonable explanation :o

    maybe it was just 2-3 people who REALLY like them.


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    #7531
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So it's about wanting a police force that is completely incapable of any degree of abuse. That's a fantasy.

    This statement says it all about the current acceptance of police brutality in society today, it’s embedded so far within the psyche that it is perceived to be part of every day living.

    The thing you have to remember is that everyone who is arrested by the police in modern day society is presumed innocent.


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