George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

conorhal

degsie wrote: »

As one protester put it (paraphrase) "America was built on the back of Black slavery, if we choose to burn it down, we will"

The emotionally incontinent response of a child smashing all the toys in the playroom having a tantrum. Also, inaccurate. A lot of bodies build America, including millions of Irish ones.

walshb

The Witches Cat wrote: »

White teenager stabbed and slashed by bunch of black teens in Cork. Where are our demonstrations and protests?????
White lives matter too!!!!!

I did not watch this, but was told it was very very disturbing. I don't think I could watch it.

Stateofyou

Jmsg wrote: »

The entire black lives matter rubbish is a complete farce. You have a group namely black people who possess particular innate heritable traits (low IQ, low conscientiousness, low agreeableness low impulse control etc.) which disposes them to disproportionately encounter police and therefore have a greater likelihood of being killed by said police

This is a disgusting display of racism and has no basis in fact. Shame on you. Trolls are annoying but racist trolls have to be the worst of humanity here.

joe40

Jmsg wrote: »

The entire black lives matter rubbish is a complete farce. You have a group namely black people who possess particular innate heritable traits (low IQ, low conscientiousness, low agreeableness low impulse control etc.) which disposes them to disproportionately encounter police and therefore have a greater likelihood of being killed by said police

That is an absolutely repugnant opinion to have. Blatant racism and that is not a term I use lightly.

I would say there is no one on this thread regardless of their views on the protests that would agree with you.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

nobody expects all police officers to always behave correctly.

what is expected is that they face repercussions for that behaviour.

They do. They're investigated, and in some cases, punished/imprisoned. Have you looked at the cases where officers were cleared? In many cases, it's due to lack of evidence because witnesses were unwilling of cooperate. Not simply corruption within the police force (which does exist).

what is expected is that their fellow officers dont stand by and do nothing. what is expected is that their fellow officers dont cover up for them.
what is expected is that police unions dont actively try to prevent police officers who commit brutality from facing the repercussions of their behaviour.

It's a team business. They're facing risk every time they put on that uniform, which means that they'll defend their teammates. That's basic human nature. That's been the case in any high risk occupation. Soldiers have done the same, protecting their fellow soldiers from danger.

Reduce the risk, and far more officers would likely inform on their fellows. Officers who cannot trust their colleagues are less likely to defend them in dangerous situations... which means officers will do whatever they can to encourage that trust to grow.

In any case, officers have been informed on in the past. Have you ever considered what happens to informants within such a system?

is that too much to expect?

Every organisation in existence has become corrupted over time, as the environment it exists in, has changed.

It's good to aim for something better.... but realism should be seriously considered. Human nature. As I said, robots are the only real chance of getting the system you want.

Carfacemandog

Carfacemandog wrote: »

There is no denying the fact that the policing system and infrastructure in America is broken, and while completely abolishing them and leaving it at that wouldn't be beneficial, it is clear the rot runs so deep and rises so high that they may want to consider completely rebuilding it from the ground up.

I'm not denying it. Not even slightly. The US is a mess. From the Black communities, and their values, right through to the management of city investments, through to their police forces, through to their political system. The US is incredibly corrupt, with double standards being applied all over the place.

I genuinely have no issue with anything you said. I'm not seeking to justify police brutality or killings by the police. There should be more accountability. But then, I feel there should be more accountability all around in US culture.

I am, though, asking for what can realistically be done. And I'm suggesting that people should also be asking what's wrong with Black/Hispanic/White cultures where such police brutality manifests.

It's not simply about racism. That's a cop out. Shedding responsibility by passing it off on to others. Racism is a factor for some. It is. Fear is likely another factor due to the dangerous environment of policing in the US. There are going to be heaps of factors and they should all be considered, if the US ever wants a workable society... and the rest of the world should be taking note, because similar stresses are starting to reveal themselves elsewhere.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

They do. They're investigated, and in some cases, punished/imprisoned. Have you looked at the cases where officers were cleared? In many cases, it's due to lack of evidence because witnesses were unwilling of cooperate. Not simply corruption within the police force (which does exist).



It's a team business. They're facing risk every time they put on that uniform, which means that they'll defend their teammates. That's basic human nature. That's been the case in any high risk occupation. Soldiers have done the same, protecting their fellow soldiers from danger.

Reduce the risk, and far more officers would likely inform on their fellows. Officers who cannot trust their colleagues are less likely to defend them in dangerous situations... which means officers will do whatever they can to encourage that trust to grow.

In any case, officers have been informed on in the past. Have you ever considered what happens to informants within such a system?



Every organisation in existence has become corrupted over time, as the environment it exists in, has changed.

It's good to aim for something better.... but realism should be seriously considered. Human nature. As I said, robots are the only real chance of getting the system you want.

Fook me....this is all I want to say....you have saved me the time....

Bravo.

Beasty

Jmsg wrote: »

The entire black lives matter rubbish is a complete farce. You have a group namely black people who possess particular innate heritable traits (low IQ, low conscientiousness, low agreeableness low impulse control etc.) which disposes them to disproportionately encounter police and therefore have a greater likelihood of being killed by said police

Jmsg wrote: »

Not racism just uncomfortable facts. You could argue someone bringing them up out of the blue is being racist but at this time they are very relevant and ignorance of them is causing untold mayhem.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are simply very ignorant of what constitutes racism

Either way you are banned from posting in this thread again

Cupatae

statesaver wrote: »

London.
Police ignore a serious assault

https://twitter.com/ErrolWebber/status/1269335161289703425

Just imagine some cop came along and shot those animals, there d be mass riots and protests.. poor black man after being shot all he was doing was beating someone half to death! Honestly BLM are a disgrace all they ve incited, i dont know how anyone in there right mind would support it.

Stabbings in cork, violence in the US.... disgusting and there speeches were aimed to start this.

owlbethere

Peregrinus wrote: »

Maybe. But if people protest peacefully against injustice and nothing is done, we can't be too surprised if they then protest less peacefully. And if we want to assign blame for the less peaceful protests then perhaps some of the blame goes to people who did nothing in response to the peaceful protests. It should have occurred to them that the croppies wouldn't lie down forever.

No. Violence of any kind is not right and anyone condoning rioting and looting is just as bad. If something doesn't go my way, does it give me a right to throw a tantrum and destroy everything around me until I get my way? No, it doesn't.

Systematic racism and police brutality is deep in America. That won't change over night and the rioting doesn't help.

hetuzozaho

Looks like some change may be coming?

"Minneapolis council pledges to dismantle police department"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52960227

Some of the ideas sound positive, removing police being involved in situations where they are not really needed.
Some articles saying it is similar to the disbanding of the Camden Police Department in New Jersey in 2012, which seems to have worked well?

MeMen2_MoRi_

joe40 wrote: »

That is an absolutely repugnant opinion to have. Blatant racism and that is not a term I use lightly.

I would say there is no one on this thread regardless of their views on the protests that would agree with you.

Both posts garnering thanks says otherwise with your latter point.

joe40

owlbethere wrote: »

No. Violence of any kind is not right and anyone condoning rioting and looting is just as bad. If something doesn't go my way, does it give me a right to throw a tantrum and destroy everything around me until I get my way? No, it doesn't.

Systematic racism and police brutality is deep in America. That won't change over night and the rioting doesn't help.

Likewise I don't agree with the violence a looting but you have said yourself systematic racism and police brutality is deep in America.
It was a lot worse before the 60s with segregation laws, lynching etc.
How did that change. It was by people holding protests, often brutally put down. There was riots then too.

This justs keeps happening LA 1992, Ferguson more recently. It will keep happening until change and reform occurs. I'm not for one minute saying it easy and I certainly don't have answers but serious money needs to be spent on education to start with, the industrial type prison system must also change.
Change must also come from within communities but they need to be helped.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

They do. They're investigated, and in some cases, punished/imprisoned. Have you looked at the cases where officers were cleared? In many cases, it's due to lack of evidence because witnesses were unwilling of cooperate. Not simply corruption within the police force (which does exist).



It's a team business. They're facing risk every time they put on that uniform, which means that they'll defend their teammates. That's basic human nature. That's been the case in any high risk occupation. Soldiers have done the same, protecting their fellow soldiers from danger.

Reduce the risk, and far more officers would likely inform on their fellows. Officers who cannot trust their colleagues are less likely to defend them in dangerous situations... which means officers will do whatever they can to encourage that trust to grow.

In any case, officers have been informed on in the past. Have you ever considered what happens to informants within such a system?



Every organisation in existence has become corrupted over time, as the environment it exists in, has changed.

It's good to aim for something better.... but realism should be seriously considered. Human nature. As I said, robots are the only real chance of getting the system you want.

you're living in a fantasy land

KiKi III

Long after the windows are fixed and the shops are reopened, the impact of dismantling the police department will be felt in Minneapolis.

The protests worked.

Whether you condone the violence or not, it has undoubtedly been an effective agent of change.

When the people who are supposed to serve and protect you start carrying out extrajudicial killings in broad daylight, the social contract breaks down.

ohnonotgmail

joe40 wrote: »

That is an absolutely repugnant opinion to have. Blatant racism and that is not a term I use lightly.

I would say there is no one on this thread regardless of their views on the protests that would agree with you.

except for the 2 that thanked the post. neither of which were a surprise.

joseywhales

"you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides."

joe40

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Both posts garnering thanks says otherwise with your latter point.

Yeah sometimes it's good to know what you're dealing with.
Plenty of people have valid concerns about protests and how this is working out and I can disagree with them but respect their opinion.

That post was however pure rascism so anyone who thanks it... Well it shows their opinion as well.

ohnonotgmail

joe40 wrote: »

Yeah sometimes it's good to know what you're dealing with.
Plenty of people have valid concerns about protests and how this is working out and I can disagree with them but respect their opinion.

That post was however pure rascism so anyone who thanks it... Well it shows their opinion as well.

they have made their opinion well known for a long time.

Retr0gamer

The Witches Cat wrote: »

White teenager stabbed and slashed by bunch of black teens in Cork. Where are our demonstrations and protests?????
White lives matter too!!!!!

Why does it have to be black teens? It's a horrible situation however it occured but focusing on the fact they are black just shows societies underlying racism? Why focus on this one when there are stabbings across the country or is this one more significant because black people were involved?

thomas 123

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Why does it have to be black teens? It's a horrible situation however it occured but focusing on the fact they are black just shows societies underlying racism? Why focus on this one when there are stabbings across the country or is this one more significant because black people were involved?

Why does it have to be teens? Why does it have to be people? Why does it have to be police? Why does it have to be anything?

That crime was a horrible hate crime in a time when we are condemning hate crimes, I’d imagine that’s why the poster highlighted it.

People use that data to convey an argument, your point can be equally applied to any situation.

ELM327

joseywhales wrote: »

"you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides."

Exactly

tensimo

an arab Spring feeling to the spread of the protests. hope it leasds to some real change

conorhal

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Looks like some change may be coming?

"Minneapolis council pledges to dismantle police department"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52960227

Some of the ideas sound positive, removing police being involved in situations where they are not really needed.
Some articles saying it is similar to the disbanding of the Camden Police Department in New Jersey in 2012, which seems to have worked well?

LOL! Good luck with that!


Camden in NJ looks post apocalyptic at the best of times. the solution to fix that no go area appears to be, just don't police it and you'll see an immediate drop in recorded crime! What a very Irish solution to an American problem!


The whole 'defund the police' guff is nonsense and everybody knows it.
The problem is poorly trained, low quality recruits and a lack of funding or training to do anything right. But go ahead and demonize all police and see what kind of candidates you get for the job.

shaveAbullock

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Why does it have to be black teens? It's a horrible situation however it occured but focusing on the fact they are black just shows societies underlying racism? Why focus on this one when there are stabbings across the country or is this one more significant because black people were involved?

I believe it's due to social media videos. There are a number of videos that showing this same gang of black teens from Cork attacking white teens.
I have no idea if race is the motivation for these attacks but the videos(recorded by the attackers) give that impression.

KiKi III

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Why does it have to be black teens? It's a horrible situation however it occured but focusing on the fact they are black just shows societies underlying racism? Why focus on this one when there are stabbings across the country or is this one more significant because black people were involved?

Wasn’t a white kid stabbed and killed by another white kid in Cork last year? Seems like the big question here should be around youth knife crime in Cork.

thomas 123

shaveAbullock wrote: »

I believe it's due to social media videos. There are a number of videos that showing this same gang of black teens from Cork attacking white teens.
I have no idea if race is the motivation for these attacks but the videos give that impression.

Victim was asked for 2 euro for the bus according to Facebook comments.

Some pretty nasty comments made by the attackers though.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you're living in a fantasy land

Right back at you. :rolleyes:

Cupatae

thomas 123 wrote: »

Why does it have to be teens? Why does it have to be people? Why does it have to be police? Why does it have to be anything?

That crime was a horrible hate crime in a time when we are condemning hate crimes, I’d imagine that’s why the poster highlighted it.

People use that data to convey an argument, your point can be equally applied to any situation.

Oh is that what were doing ? condemning em lol So far 20 people have been killed in the 2020 Riots.

Their lives don’t matter to the media or the “protesters” though.

They killed TWENTY people.

Anyone that supports BLM cause needs to have a word with themselves. I never realised how disgusting a group BLM were till all this kicked off, when u read into it see whats being done and said... its baffling the support it has racism is alive and kicking...literally

ohnonotgmail

conorhal wrote: »

LOL! Good luck with that!


Camden in NJ looks post apocalyptic at the best of times. the solution to fix that no go area appears to be, just don't police it and you'll see an immediate drop in recorded crime! What a very Irish solution to an American problem!


The whole 'defund the police' guff is nonsense and everybody knows it.
The problem is poorly trained, low quality recruits and a lack of funding or training to do anything right. But go ahead and demonize all police and see what kind of candidates you get for the job.

the crime rate dropped after they disbanded their police force.