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George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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    #7982
    thecretinhop
    Registered Users Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭thecretinhop


    the typical African was ‘only one degree removed from the animal’?

    who said dat? all mention of him should be erased from de earth


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    #7983
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,605 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Seriously, make a split-second decision on that like a policeman would have to and see the margin for error. Do you base it on colour, accent, area, gender?
    It's not a split second decision either.

    It's one thing to shoot somebody in what the officer belived to have been a life or death scenario, only to have that turn out to be a bad shooting, a bad decision, a failure of training.

    It's another to kneel on somebody's neck, minute after minute, with the victim and onlookers pleading with the officer to stop, and to keep that going even as the victim lost consciousness.

    If we had footage of Anto from Finglas dying in the same way, many many people would be out on the streets, and rightly so.


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    #7984
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    If it is obvious to you , then maybe you can explain what she was on about?

    Jfc, the childishness here. It's in plain English. What part of what was written is confusing to you. You just didn't like the response.


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    #7985
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,910 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    osarusan wrote: »
    It's not a split second decision either.

    It's one thing to shoot somebody in what the officer belived to have been a life or death scenario, only to have that turn out to be a bad shooting, a bad decision, a failure of training.

    It's another to kneel on somebody's neck, minute after minute, with the victim and onlookers pleading with the officer to stop, and to keep that going even as the victim lost consciousness.

    If we had footage of Anto from Finglas dying in the same way, many many people would be out on the streets, and rightly so.
    All over the world? Thugs looting? Ignoring social distancing and lockdown laws?


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    #7986
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,290 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Jfc, the childishness here. It's in plain English. What part of what was written is confusing to you. You just didn't like the response.

    So you can't explain what the poster was on about....you just didn't like my response...isn't that a bit childish?


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    #7987
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    thecretinhop wrote: »
    the typical African was ‘only one degree removed from the animal’?

    who said dat? all mention of him should be erased from de earth

    What? Who are you quoting?
    Fun fact, we all share 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees. The more you know...


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    #7988
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    Looking at Floyd's criminal past he was a bit of a scumbag it seems. Funny but i'd hazard a guess that the majority of people virtue signalling about this matter would turn a blind eye if this happened in Dublin and his name was Anto from Finglas with that amount of criminal history. Furthermore they'd say he had it coming or some such similar vile sh1t.

    If it was an Asian, Hispanic, white heck even an alien under the knee of that POS my view of it would be the same.. the ones that have a view of excusing this because of George's past are the vile one's, like yourself and many more on this thread.

    I don't know what's worse, being killed in a hail of bullets or under the knee while the POS has such a nonchalant attitude nearly right through out the killing only getting bothered when he senses the people on the footpath may do something about it.


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    #7989
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    So you can't explain what the poster was on about....you just didn't like my response...isn't that a bit childish?

    What response? That's the point. It was a deflection, not a response. Everyone knows that a retort of "what are you on about" is just a deflection/disagreement to a point made. Here's what was said:

    "Are you saying that you feel police brutality up to and including extrajudicial killings is justified toward anyone with a criminal record?

    But breaking windows at Target is deeply wrong.

    So when the police are violent it’s grand, but when protesters do it it’s because they’re thugs?"

    What part of that response are you struggling with here.


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    #7990
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Jfc, the childishness here. It's in plain English. What part of what was written is confusing to you. You just didn't like the response.

    What is a little confusing is that you would call somebody asking for clarification on a point is trying to deflect from that same point....


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    #7991
    anplaya27
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭anplaya27


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    I disagree. Whatever his criminal history he did not deserve to be killed.
    Who cares if he was in adult films, are we back in the 1950s?


    If the Gardaí killed anyone in that manner they would be severely criticised.
    If they killed people regularly without justification the country would not allow it.


    Define scum? Or thugs?

    Seriously, make a split-second decision on that like a policeman would have to and see the margin for error. Do you base it on colour, accent, area, gender?

    Are you confident that you, or your children, might never be confused for scum by the police and treated like dirt as a result?
    It's a bad way to police, with the potential for error and abuse baked-in, and it guarantees undermining the community consent which is the basis of the Peelian Principles of Policing.



    Snobbery certainly exists in Ireland but most people would find Gardaí unjustifiably killing Anto in Finglas to be abhorrent, and I'm glad of that.
    We're not a society of Brahmins and untermensch, but a Republic of equal citizens.

    Equal citizens? I think not based on my experience as a Deaf ISL user.


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    #7992
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What is a little confusing is that you would call somebody asking for clarification on a point is trying to deflect from that same point....

    Ha where is the asking for clarification? That poster (Kiki) is responding to all the wild justifications being made of a man's life being taken and the focus being put on his past and/or riots instead of 400 years of violence and oppression towards black people and the VIOLENT past of the police officer himself. Hmmm...


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    #7993
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    "Are you saying that you feel police brutality up to and including extrajudicial killings is justified toward anyone with a criminal record?

    But breaking windows at Target is deeply wrong.

    So when the police are violent it’s grand, but when protesters do it it’s because they’re thugs?"

    What part of that response are you struggling with here.

    The confusing part was where the poster inferred with the opening and closing question, that the other poster had put forward an opinion that suggested what was being inferred.


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    #7994
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The confusing part was where the poster inferred with the opening and closing question, that the other poster had put forward an opinion that suggested what was being inferred.

    You don't think that opinion is being put forward there and indeed all over this thread?


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    #7995
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    What???

    Can you explain what you are on about?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Can you point out where he said that? It's a deeply uncharitable reading of his post if you took that from it.
    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Ha where is the asking for clarification?.

    I think these were two very specific calls for clarification.


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    #7996
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    What? Who are you quoting?
    Fun fact, we all share 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees. The more you know...

    Absolutely, race is largely a misnomer, all humans are genetically the same. Obviously not identical, but there is as much variation between individuals within the same so called "race" as there is between the "races"

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-genetics-science-africa/


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    #7997
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    You don't think that opinion is being put forward there and indeed all over this thread?

    Certainly not. I think you would have to be an argumentative monster trying to score points to think so.

    Why? Do you?


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    #7998
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think these were two very specific calls for clarification.

    Asking for clarification by saying "what are you on about" when the point was made perfectly well in plain English is a deflection.

    And you forgot to pull the quote where the only response was an eye roll.


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    #7999
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    anplaya27 wrote: »
    Equal citizens? I think not based on my experience as a Deaf ISL user.


    Apologies, I meant what we nominally aspire to.
    The reality may fall short but I'm sure most of us believe in the principle of equal rights and treatment, rather than a country where "scum" (apparently defined as anyone from Finglas called Anthony) can be killed by the Gardaí with popular support.


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    #8000
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    anplaya27 wrote: »
    Equal citizens? I think not based on my experience as a Deaf ISL user.

    TBF, that's something that affects anyone who has a 'condition' that is different from the 'norm'. I have a severe shaking disorder which means it's often very noticeable that I'm shaking. People react in many different ways around me, some more subtle reactions, and others outright hostile. I also tend to get more attention from the police and authority figures (bouncers, barmen, etc).

    I'm still equal in terms of rights as other people in Ireland. It's just that I have to claim those rights more often. It is what it is... I learned a long time ago to simply accept it. People make noises about what should happen, but the reality rarely matches the "should".


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    #8001
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_




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    #8002
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Certainly not. I think you would have to be an argumentative monster trying to score points to think so.

    Why? Do you?

    You can't be serious. Yes. You don't even have to scroll back very far. So you are prepared to stand behind the argument that no one here is bringing up George Floyd's past or focusing on the riots or lootings here on this thread?


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    #8003
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Says the guy who wants to abolish the police but has no idea how beyond hiring a few social workers!

    It wasn't always normal to have a functioning police force you know...dragging us backward isn't exactly a shift from the norm!!!

    There's actually complete thought out ideas on how to move forward in a restructuring situation. It's not dragging anything backward in fact, it would vastly improve a society in which everyone is not benefitting but especially not people of colour who are disproportionately impacted by this brutal system.


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    #8004
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    You can't be serious. Yes. You don't even have to scroll back very far. So you are prepared to stand behind the argument that no one here is bringing up George Floyd's past or focusing on the riots or lootings here on this thread?

    That's very different to what Kiki was saying.

    George Floyds past has been brought up, but I have not seen anyone say he deserved the death he got. And the lootings are a the result of a large section of people who are hijacked peaceful protests and have tarnished their good work.

    To not mention either his past or the looting would be disingenuous to say the least.


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    #8005
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That's very different to what Kiki was saying.

    George Floyds past has been brought up, but I have not seen anyone say he deserved the death he got. And the lootings are a the result of a large section of people who are hijacked peaceful protests and have tarnished their good work.

    To not mention either his past or the looting would be disingenuous to say the least.

    How much chat about his past is acceptable? He did absolutely scummy things, I don't dispute this I don't think anyone does, I don't see the relevance of it, he was a victim of absolute scum police brutality that resulted in his death.


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    #8006
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's very different to what Kiki was saying.

    George Floyds past has been brought up, but I have not seen anyone say he deserved the death he got. And the lootings are a the result of a large section of people who are hijacked peaceful protests and have tarnished their good work.

    To not mention either his past or the looting would be disingenuous to say the least.

    Talk about disingenuous. The justifications about his death are ALL over the shop here. And then you admit to a mentioning of his past or the looting, which were JUSTIFICATIONS and simplifying the riots as if they weren't a symptom of the huge issue. Judging a protest by it's most violent participants but not focusing on the police brutality by it's most violent cops is the problem.


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    #8007
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    How much chat about his past is acceptable? He did absolutely scummy things, I don't dispute this I don't think anyone does, I don't see the relevance of it, he was a victim of absolute scum police brutality that resulted in his death.

    How about NONE of it. None of his past is relevant in his brutal public execution.


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    #8008
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    How about NONE of it. None of his past is relevant in his brutal public execution.

    People have been moaning about not being allowed to talk about it, or they can't justify what relevance it has when asked, when he is the victim which they think he is BUT we still have to talk about his past. Ridiculous sh!t


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    #8009
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    People have been moaning about not being allowed to talk about it, or they can't justify what relevance it has when asked, when he is the victim which they think he is BUT we still have to talk about his past. Ridiculous sh!t

    Yeah it's pretty ridiculous sh!t that people are dragging up his past. Which is what ALWAYS happens when a shocking death comes to light in a brutal police killing. It needs to stop.


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    #8010
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,520 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    For anyone saying police reform isn't needed in the US.

    Guy worked for a pest control company and owned an air rifle, patrons in the hotel reported seeing a rifle. Police turn up, guy is obviously distressed and scared. Executed like a dog on the street.

    *WARNING, THIS VIDEO SHOWS A MAN GETTING SHOT DEAD, NO BLOOD/GORE BUT STILL NSFW*



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    #8011
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    .....youtube...

    Watched it all. How is an individual born today so tied economically to what happened two, three, five, generations before they were born?

    My family is from the west of Ireland. My grandfather cut turf. Not a terribly good income at the best of times. My family was dirt poor two generations back. My parents struggled to get into university, and to get jobs. My mother went through the discrimination against women. We're not poor now, because we are not dependent on the past for our future. I made my own money, paid my own way through university, got my jobs, and moved when I couldn't. I've lived in seven different towns/cities in Ireland, and four countries outside of Ireland.

    It's a cop out. Laying blame on the past to justify the failures of the present. Is it hard? Damn right it is. But you have a choice, Accept the ****ty situation you're in, or make something better of yourself.

    That video started off well. I appreciated her opening statements about distinguishing between the three groups... but then she seeks to justify the behavior of the looters. Making excuses for the failure of the black communities, even though other Black people have made themselves wealthy/successful.

    Nah. There's too much of this BS going on. The African American group do face challenges but they're something that can be overcome. There are more educational grants available to people of color or disadvantaged backgrounds than there are for similar white poor groups in the US. There are initiatives to place black people in employment in many states. There are options. It's still going to be hard, but life is hard.

    That video looks to provide excuses. Which is one of the major reasons (yes, there's other reasons including discrimination) that the Black communities are generally so run down and poverty stricken. They're always looking to pass responsibility to others and not actually do anything to improve their lot. Sure, some communities do improve in the face of their difficulties, but the rhetoric from BLM or others online, is that they have no chance to improve. They're held down. Unable to do anything. Meh.


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