George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Overheal

peddlelies wrote: »

Yes, the incident you describe was wrong and unfortunate but you easily push aside the millions of home burglaries a year in the US police are called out to deal with, many of which with frightened home owners still inside.

Stop letting emotion rule your every thought and start looking at crime statistics.

I’m not even sure what you are trying to say here lol is it this?

“Cops solve 13% of burglaries so cut them some slack when they murder someone doing their own burglary geez?”

KiKi III

walshb wrote: »

Folks need to stop using the word disproportionately here......

Cops target behaviors. End of....

If certain ethnicities are involved in certain behaviors that cops are targeting, then they can expect to be targeted...

It's real simple.

So if an area has a high level of black people committing crime, law-abiding black
people should have to put up with that *and* being profiled for police brutality.

That seems fair.

na1

Overheal wrote: »

You should look up the arrest of Dylan Roof. Include Burger King in your search terms.

The single cases don't make the statistics.

US have 13% of the total black population and 40% of the prison population

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Ethnicity

does that mean that black criminals are more likely to be mistreated or that black person have more chances to became a criminal?

Tell me how

peddlelies wrote: »

Cherry picking single examples doesn't change reality. Without police or with a significantly reduced police force crime will go up, it's that simple.

Prosecuting Lawyer: 'Your Honour, I present to you the evidence'
Defending Lawyer: 'Stop cherry picking'

What happened Breonna Taylor IS reality.

Prevention is better than cure. Treat people like humans and give them options when they are young instead of treating them like adversaries and targets when they take one of the limited paths available to them in the current climate.

Silentcorner

na1 wrote: »

I still didn't get any numbers from your links. Just words of 'racists' & 'discrimination'

The two cases you mentioned do not make the statistics
O. J. Simpson was pleaded not guilty for the murder of his ex wife.

You have to remember, there is a percentage of our population that do not respond to facts and figure's, or rational arguments they respond to emotional language like Racist/Oppression/Sexist etc etc....you can't talk to these people on a rational level, you can only hope they don't elect these types into public office or place them in positions of responsibility.

~Rebel~

na1 wrote: »

I still didn't get any numbers from your links. Just words of 'racists' & 'discrimination'

The two cases you mentioned do not make the statistics
O. J. Simpson was pleaded not guilty for the murder of his ex wife.

Then you haven’t read through the sources provided. You know what they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

As for the snapshot, as explained, the sources were for the societal info, the snapshot was for a use-case scenario. Just trying to be helpful by going above and beyond for ya.

Overheal

na1 wrote: »

The single cases don't make the statistics.

US have 13% of the total black population and 40% of the prison population

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Ethnicity

does that mean that black criminals are more likely to be mistreated or that black person have more chances to became a criminal?

I find it fascinating that you read that and think “wow these darkies are really supercriminals” and somehow you don’t see the more painstakingly obvious pattern.

froog

the defund/abolish police movement is just daft and very poorly thought out. i've yet to see a coherent plan for what to replace the policing function with. "community safety" whatever that is gets bandied around a lot which often seems to be explained as just another police force.

of course community services and social workers need more funding, they always do. but so do police departments, especially in a country like america with such a rampant gun problem.

incredibly naive.

from what i've been reading the last few days, the campaign should be "abolish police unions". this seems to a root problem for failure to reform departments in the past.

2u2me

joe40 wrote: »

Policing in Ireland and the UK has changed a lot since the 70s but they never did sh*t like kneeling on a neck until death.

To be honest it somewhat irks me that people will so easily paint every police officer from every police department with the same brush(of which most of them I believe are upstanding civil servants). The focus on reform has been abadoned, despite nearly every metric suggesting things are only getting better.

There just aren't that many cases like this.

joe40 wrote: »

I admit I don't know enough about American society or culture to have answers, but I just find it hard to believe there is so much anger, felt by so many people for there not to be real reasons.

The very real anger is being felt in other parts of the world. It is resonating around the globe. I had a short post here about it.

Edgware wrote: »

How much has the go fund me raised for Floyds family so they won't have to go down the road he took?

Nearly 14$million.
I think it's great that platforms like gofundme exist for this very reason. It's also disgusting that same platform will cancel the campaigns for that cork lad(6,000€ collected) and Candace Owens raising awareness for a diner($200,000+ collected). Apparently they weren't the right victims.

Overheal

froog wrote: »

the defund/abolish police movement is just daft and very poorly thought out. i've yet to see a coherent plan for what to replace the policing function with. "community safety" whatever that is gets bandied around a lot which often seems to be explained as just another police force.

of course community services and social workers need more funding, they always do. but so do police departments, especially in a country like america with such a rampant gun problem.

incredibly naive.

from what i've been reading the last few days, the campaign should be "abolish police unions". this seems to a root problem for failure to reform departments in the past.

The defund moniker is overblown, yet it sure has got the conversation going. What is it they say about negotiation? Something about demanding more than you hope to achieve so the compromise satisfies both parties, something something.

Overheal

2u2me wrote: »

To be honest it somewhat irks me that people will so easily paint every police officer from every police department with the same brush(of which most of them I believe are upstanding civil servants). The focus on reform has been abadoned, despite nearly every metric suggesting things are only getting better.

There just aren't that many cases like this.



The very real anger is being felt in other parts of the world. It is resonating around the globe. I had a short post here about it.



Nearly 14$million.
I think it's great that platforms like gofundme exist for this very reason. It's also disgusting that same platform will cancel the campaigns for that cork lad(6,000€ collected) and Candace Owens raising awareness for a diner($200,000+ collected). Apparently they weren't the right victims.

Are you defending that trash?

“ GoFundMe has suspended a fundraiser established by conservative activist candace owens for a café co-owner who called the late George Floyd a "thug," saying her campaign violated its policies on "intolerance of any kind."

“Owens had raised more than $200,000 for the Parkside Café in Birmingham, Ala., after co-owner Michael Dykes sparked backlash by insulting Floyd and calling the people protesting his death "idiots" in a text message to co-owner Robert Bagwell.”

victor8600

na1 wrote: »

...
does that mean that black criminals are more likely to be mistreated or that black person have more chances to became a criminal?

Both. I would object to the phrase "black person have more chances to became a criminal" though. A person from a poor background, segregated from the wider community, is more likely to treat the law with less respect than a person from a more affluent background.

~Rebel~

froog wrote: »

the defund/abolish police movement is just daft and very poorly thought out. i've yet to see a coherent plan for what to replace the policing function with. "community safety" whatever that is gets bandied around a lot which often seems to be explained as just another police force.

of course community services and social workers need more funding, they always do. but so do police departments, especially in a country like america with such a rampant gun problem.

incredibly naive.

Again, what was done on this island 19 years ago is a good example of what can be done. I don’t think anyone is saying there should be no police, period. But that the police as it stands are not fit for purpose. Overarmed, and undertrained (they are required to spend only 20% - or less - of the time our gardai require to become police officers - and they’re then given guns). You can look at the North for a sample of replacing a failing police forth with a workable one, in how the RUC was dissolved entirely, and replaced wholesale by the PSNI.

Is it doable? I don’t know, but we’ve shown over here that it can at least be something to aspire to, particularly in the case of the especially destructive PD’s. Like Bakersfield, Oklahoma, Long Beach, San Fran, St Louis, Anaheim, Mesa, Aurora, Arlington, Fresno, Omaha, Austin etc, where police killing rates is vastly out of kilter with those areas violent crime stats.

Source: mappingpoliceviolence.org

2u2me

Overheal wrote: »

The defund moniker is overblown, yet it sure has got the conversation going. What is it they say about negotiation? Something about demanding more than you hope to achieve so the compromise satisfies both parties, something something.

When they say "black lives matter" they don't mean other lives matter less.
When they say "while silence is violence" they don't mean violence will be brought upon white people that are silent.
When they say "No Justice, No peace" they don't mean they will riot on the streets if their demands aren't met.
When they say "Defund/Abolish the police" they just "got the conversation going"

Sure .... :rolleyes:

Silentcorner

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Again, what was done on this island 19 years ago is a good example of what can be done. I don’t think anyone is saying there should be no police, period. But that the police as it stands are not fit for purpose. Overarmed, and undertrained (they are required to spend only 20% - or less - of the time our gardai require to become police officers - and they’re then given guns). You can look at the North for a sample of replacing a failing police forth with a workable one, in how the RUC was dissolved entirely, and replaced wholesale by the PSNI.

Is it doable? I don’t know, but we’ve shown over here that it can at least be something to aspire to, particularly in the case of the especially destructive PD’s.

Will you ever stop comparing the RUC to the US Police force, they are not comparable in any way shape or form...it's hard to even compare the North to any region anywhere let alone the US acountry with a population of 350,000,000 people...it's crazy to even consider comparing the two.

The Civil Rights march in The North was inspired by the Civil Rights movement in the US back in the 60s....it just took a little longer over here.

The problem isn't that there are no black officers in the US Police.

Overheal

2u2me wrote: »

When they say "black lives matter" they don't mean other lives matter less.

Correct.

When they say "while silence is violence" they don't mean violence will be brought upon white people that are silent.

Correct.

When they say "No Justice, No peace" they don't mean they will riot on the streets if their demands aren't met.

Not the way I take it anyway. No peace for black communities while they live in an unjust system.

When they say "Defund/Abolish the police" they just "got the conversation going"

Sure .... :rolleyes:

You’re talking about it aren’t you?

Dyr

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Are you going to argue the point? Or just deflect?

Are you going to continue to claim that 100th cop in America is a murderer?

While you're banging out statistics there, small matter of you claiming that in in every 100 police officer that murders someone is prosecuted

You're going to have that back that up or look like a bit of a clown. And no wiggling around the term "murder" either, good chap.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ha! Well, given that only 1 out of every 100 police officers that murders someone is actually prosecuted, they’re doing alright for themselves!
.

~Rebel~

2u2me wrote: »

When they say "black lives matter" they don't mean other lives matter less.
When they say "while silence is violence" they don't mean violence will be brought upon white people that are silent.
When they say "No Justice, No peace" they don't mean they will riot on the streets if their demands aren't met.
When they say "Defund/Abolish the police" they just "got the conversation going"

Sure .... :rolleyes:

Wait... do you really not understand most of those?

~Rebel~

Bambi wrote: »

Are you going to continue to claim that 100th cop in America is a murderer?

While you're banging out statistics there, small matter of you claiming that in in every 100 police officer that murders someone is prosecuted

You're going to have that back that up or look like a bit of a clown. And no wiggling around the term "murder" either, good chap.

Apologies - for every 100 police killings, only 1 person is ever prosecuted.

Is that it? Is that all you’re annoyed about? Do you think that looks right? Is that not a staggering statistic? American police killed 1004 people last year. That’s more than the rest of the police forces of the rest of the western world combined, over several years.

southstar

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Then you haven’t read through the sources provided. You know what they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

As for the snapshot, as explained, the sources were for the societal info, the snapshot was for a use-case scenario. Just trying to be helpful by going above and beyond for ya.

Could you provide those statistics again..as lm equally skeptical as to their provenance.Thanks

2u2me

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Wait... do you really not understand most of those?

There is ambiguity in meaning, deliberately. That you and others choose to ignore this is exasperating.

If Spurs supporters had listened to you lot the word "Yid" would never have been changed in the OED in February this year to include "Tottenham Supporter"

Words like gay, queer etc.. could never have been reclaimed. There is no absolute authority in language things are ever evolving.

People may have begun using #blm is the sense that you and others mean it; but now it was been hijacked by more fringe elements pushing their particular type of supremacy of which I will disagree with until my last breath.

froog

Overheal wrote: »

The defund moniker is overblown, yet it sure has got the conversation going. What is it they say about negotiation? Something about demanding more than you hope to achieve so the compromise satisfies both parties, something something.

fair enough, but they've automatically lost a huge amount of possible support if they can't even articulate what they actually want, and worse confuse people.

markodaly

Nermal wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Michael_Heaver/status/1269706510352908290

Defunded police.

Good for nothing but harrasing people for the pronouns they use in their tweets.

It seems to a similar thing in many jurisdictions now.

The crowd goes mad and out of control. Police just stand there and do **** all, afraid of their lives because there are 100's of cameras pointed at them, waiting for that viral moment, meanwhile the 'protestors' can run amock with impunity.

I can definitely see a major backlash from a silent minority who don't spend all day on social media if this continues, all the protest could be for naught.

Overheal

markodaly wrote: »

It seems to a similar thing in many jurisdictions now.

The crowd goes mad and out of control. Police just stand there and do **** all, afraid of their lives because there are 100's of cameras pointed at them, waiting for that viral moment, meanwhile the 'protestors' can run amock with impunity.

I can definitely see a major backlash from a silent minority who don't spend all day on social media if this continues, all the protest could be for naught.

This is class S satire. Thanks for that.

2u2me

Overheal wrote: »

You’re talking about it aren’t you?

The ones talking about it the most before all this started aren't being listened to.

Police departments, unions, activist groups etc...

The social justice activists that have jumped on the bandwagon have veered it towards abolition, to the detriment of all the good work being done over the years.

~Rebel~

Silentcorner wrote: »

Will you ever stop comparing the RUC to the US Police force, they are not comparable in any way shape or form...it's hard to even compare the North to any region anywhere let alone the US acountry with a population of 350,000,000 people...it's crazy to even consider comparing the two.

The Civil Rights march in The North was inspired by the Civil Rights movement in the US back in the 60s....it just took a little longer over here.

The problem isn't that there are no black officers in the US Police.

I’m not comparing the circumstances, because the reasons for change are quite different... I’m not at all sure where you got the impression I was?

I’m pointing out that whatever your reasons for change, that a total change in Police Department can happen, as evidenced by the North. They needed total change, and they accomplished total change.

As for the comparisons of the US as a whole country and 350 million people... you know the police departments are not federal, right? It’s not one national branch... it’s not even by state, they’re always either county or municipality institutions - or, in other words, areas actually quite comparable with those covered by the PSNI. I’m sure some of these are grand, and can keep doing the great job they’re doing, while others (like some of the ones I mentioned in a post about 20 mins ago) could really do with total rebuilding.

markodaly

Defunding the police is just another populist soundbite repeated by morons on social media. Do you know the people who are most affected by crime? Poor black people in majority neighborhoods.
I get that one should spend more on social services, that is fine, but the whole defund the police tagline is just a blatant desire for revenge.

Put it this way, good luck to ANYONE in Ireland saying we should cut the Garda budget or Garda numbers. We are under policed if anything.

markodaly

Overheal wrote: »

This is class S satire. Thanks for that.

Not at all, it is clear now, especially in places like NY City and the UK that the police cannot control large crowds. They are led by politicians who do now want any bad press, so the police are told to relax and stand down more often than not.

The thing is, that viral moment where a police officer is set upon and kicked to death, will have a much larger effect on the silent majority than some demonstration that people will forget. In other words, this could backfire in a huge way.

Deebles McBeebles

Another police officer being charged
https://www.thejournal.ie/new-york-cop-charged-5118451-Jun2020/

Interestingly, and despite some of the opinions on this thread that there is nothing wrong, seems a lot of people closer to the situation would beg to differ.

Following Floyd’s killing, communities, states and even Congress have come up with initiatives to stem police violence, especially against blacks.

Overheal

markodaly wrote: »

Not at all, it is clear now, especially in places like NY City and the UK that the police cannot control large crowds. They are led by politicians who do now want any bad press, so the police are told to relax and stand down more often than not.

The thing is, that viral moment where a police officer is set upon and kicked to death, will have a much larger effect on the silent majority than some demonstration that people will forget. In other words, this could backfire in a huge way.

Wow yeah oh god you’re right

“100 cellphones! I fear for my life!” Blam blam blam

Court: Ah yeah well if you think about it from the right angle in the perfect light during the solstice, cellphones are very threatening when you work a job that’s not used to public oversight. Case dismissed!