George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

2u2me

Retr0gamer wrote: »

They aren't.

I'd classify calling people bigoted as uncivil.

But being civil isn't just about the words people use as we all know; it's more about the tone used and how one argues. Whether ones respond to fair criticisms and challenges or just continues to repeat the same rhetoric over and over. All of these fall under the umbrella of civil for me.

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

None of my posts are anti law and order. They are anti racist, anti oppressive.

What balance do you want? “Yes crack open a few skulls to appease the base now and again?”

Can you look at the incident impartially for a moment ,

Man (regardless of age ) approaches police when he is instructed not to do so, The mans right hand reach out in the direction of the police officers fire arm and is only about a foot away ,

Man gets lightly shoved away , Unfortunately man takes a bad fall ,

Its the mans fault for being where he should not have been not the Police man fault ,

The whole incident does not occur if the man listens to the police instructions ,

walshb

Foxtrol wrote: »

US Police and their Unions especially are actually acting very similar to the Catholic Church.

For decades they've been shielding 'bad apples' through cover-ups and many times allowing them to move from one force to another. They're now crying that the media is being unfair to them by reporting facts.

I don't disagree here, but what is a bad apple?

The problem now is that some people will call a bad apple for any misdemeanor or perceived wrong or perceived injustice....

I don't think the U.S. and its police are in some sort of cover up here, harboring known bad cops because they want to. It's far too complex for it to be this black and white.

We all know bad apples exist in every walk of life......

The problem here is that this is getting way way blown out of proportion, and because it is, it is causing more troubles.

Overheal

biko wrote: »

Seattle city hall compromised.

https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1270570826585300994

Calls for her resignation and why

https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1Eyndzr3YyrqgqBgLw7haREiT9b3t2HIx2UtBD7IFta4/mobilebasic

Overheal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Can you look at the incident impartially for a moment ,

Man (regardless of age ) approaches police when he is instructed not to do so, The mans right hand reach out in the direction of the police officers fire arm and is only about a foot away ,

Man gets lightly shoved away , Unfortunately man takes a bad fall ,

Its the mans fault for being where he should not have been not the Police man fault ,

The whole incident does not occur if the man listens to the police instructions ,

Ah yes “lightly shoved” - do you listen to yourself and your oxymorons?

2u2me

joe40 wrote: »

Did you say the " knitting forum'" is that a thing or am I missing something.

Deplorable knitters had about 8 million active users.

walshb

The riot cop that pushed the man away....should that cop really lose his entire career here? Because a man approached him and made contact with him, and he then pushed him away?

Because if we are calling this a bad apple, and a cop that should be gone, then there won't be any cops left...

KiKi III

walshb wrote: »

Does anyone know what the man said to the officers? He definitely made contact with riot police. That is on him. 100 percent. You make unwanted contact with riot police, expect some reaction. He was casually and very innocuously pushed away.

His falling to the ground was unfortunate. He created the situation. The riot police pushed him away. No right or wrong there..

Is it getting now to the point where cops in riot gear during serious tensions can’t do anything that involves physical contact?

Anyway, it appeared to me like Trump described. Or at least similar. He set out to cause an issue..deliberately.

It’s called excessive use of force, and it undermines law and order, it doesn’t maintain it. Carrying out a bit of police brutality at a police brutality protest is a pretty stupid thing to do, and I’m delighted they have been charged.

It’s mad that you’re willing to defend what they’re own police chiefs won’t.

ohnonotgmail

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Can you look at the incident impartially for a moment ,

Man (regardless of age ) approaches police when he is instructed not to do so, The mans right hand reach out in the direction of the police officers fire arm and is only about a foot away ,

Man gets lightly shoved away , Unfortunately man takes a bad fall ,

Its the mans fault for being where he should not have been not the Police man fault ,

The whole incident does not occur if the man listens to the police instructions ,

if a cop, who is surrounded by dozens of other cops, cannot handle an old man coming towards him without resorting to pushing then they dont deserve to be a cop. if they thought he was trying to grab their gun they should have arrested him. saying that he was trying to take their gun is a post-facto justification for police brutality. the cop in question never mentioned an attempt to take his gun.

KiKi III

walshb wrote: »

The riot cop that pushed the man away....should that cop really lose his entire career here? Because a man approached him made contact with him, and he then pushed him away?

You’re using the term “made contact with” to imply that he made physical contact with the cop. He didn’t. He just spoke to him.

The levels you’re willing to go to to defend the assault of a 75 year old are astounding.

walshb

Overheal wrote: »

Ah yes “lightly shoved” - do you listen to yourself and your oxymorons?

And what would you call it? A ferocious push?

walshb

KiKi III wrote: »

You’re using the term “made contact with” to imply that he made physical contact with the cop. He didn’t. He just spoke to him.

The levels you’re willing to go to to defend the assault of a 75 year old are astounding.

He did make contact....watch it...he put his hand onto the cop...

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

The riot cop that pushed the man away....should that cop really lose his entire career here? Because a man approached him made contact with him, and he then pushed him away?

Because if we are calling this a bad apple, and a cop that should be gone, then there won't be any cops left...

Don’t need bad cops.

Don’t worry he will skate without charges and get hired up by a neighboring jurisdiction. That’s how the racket works.

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

And what would you call it? A ferocious push?

A shove will do. I don’t know how you gently shove someone - gently push roughly? What?

Deebles McBeebles

KiKi III wrote: »

It’s called excessive use of force, and it undermines law and order, it doesn’t maintain it. Carrying out a bit of police brutality at a police brutality protest is a pretty stupid thing to do, and I’m delighted they have been charged.

It’s mad that you’re willing to defend what they’re own police chiefs won’t.

Not to mention the DA, the mayor and the governor.

KiKi III

walshb wrote: »

He did make contact....watch it...he put his hand onto the cop...

I watched it. Looks to me like he was gesturing. The cop is surrounded by other cops and is in no danger. The man is elderly and unarmed. There was absolutely no need to assault the man.

KiKi III

Overheal wrote: »

A shove will do. I don’t know how you gently shove someone - gently push roughly? What?

It’s almost as though it doesn’t take much of a push to seriously injure someone in their 70s

yourdeadwright

KiKi III wrote: »

I watched it. Looks to me like he was gesturing. The cop is surrounded by other cops and is in no danger. The man is elderly and unarmed. There was absolutely no need to assault the man.

The man had no business going near the cops , Let alone raising his hand near the officers weapon , One of the first things your are thought in any Police or military force is do not let ANYONE near your service weapon ,

Sorry are we now expecting old white men to be allowed have some kind of white privilege to approach cops when told other wise and raise there hands towards the weapons ,


It was 100% the mans fault,

Foxtrol

walshb wrote: »

I don't disagree here, but what is a bad apple?

The problem now is that some people will call a bad apple for any misdemeanor or perceived wrong or perceived injustice....

I don't think the U.S. and its police are in some sort of cover up here, harboring known bad cops because they want to. It's far too complex for it to be this black and white.

We all know bad apples exist in every walk of life......

The problem here is that this is getting way way blown out of proportion, and because it is, it is causing more troubles.

If this is true then why are unions fighting for disciplinary information to be made public, which allows cops to jump from force to force even if fired for cause?

Why are the Unions fighting to keep qualified immunity in place, which makes it incredibly difficult to sue officers for their actions?

Why have cops been found to have lied again and again and again over the last 2 weeks due to video being available to counter it? In the case of the old man they said 'he tripped', with no mention of being pushed.

Your last line is the exact same thing that was said about the church. It was getting blown way out of proportion until people finally realised how prevalent it was in the Irish church

Overheal

The officer who shoved that woman in New York, resulting in seizures, a concussion and hospitalization, is walking free again after turning himself in to Brooklyn PD.

https://twitter.com/bornthisway1027/status/1270480677381775361?s=21

KiKi III

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The man had no business going near the cops , Let alone raising his hand near the officers weapon , One of the first things your are thought in any Police or military force is do not let ANYONE near your service weapon ,

Sorry are we now expecting old white men to be allowed have some kind of white privilege to approach cops when told other wise and raise there hands towards the weapons ,


It was 100% the mans fault,

And there was absolutely no other way the three dozen cops there could have handled the situation? No possible way to de-escalate?

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Calls for her resignation and why

https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1Eyndzr3YyrqgqBgLw7haREiT9b3t2HIx2UtBD7IFta4/mobilebasic

So instead of voting her out, attack her and her office. Is that what this mob has become.

Deebles McBeebles

Overheal wrote: »

The officer who shoved that woman in New York, resulting in seizures, a concussion and hospitalization, is walking free again after turning himself in to Brooklyn PD.

https://twitter.com/bornthisway1027/status/1270480677381775361?s=21

Now that wanker should definitely face prison time. Surely an indefensible act. Its definitely not protect or serve.

Overheal

KiKi III wrote: »

And there was absolutely no other way the three dozen cops there could have handled the situation? No possible way to de-escalate?

These people don’t understand the concept of de-escalation their idea of policing is to pummel the **** out of anyone who steps out of their imagined line.

Foxtrol

Overheal wrote: »

These people don’t understand the concept of de-escalation their idea of policing is to pummel the **** out of anyone who steps out of their imagined line.

It is the Trump sense of manliness. Pick on those weaker than you. Unfortunately it seems to also pervade many of the police forces in the US

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So instead of voting her out, attack her and her office. Is that what this mob has become.

Is there something wrong with protest? Why would the public’s only recourse be to wait for a mayoral election in 2021?

Overheal

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is the Trump sense of manliness. Pick on those weaker than you. Unfortunately it seems to also pervade many of the police forces in the US

It’s ingrained in the culture, too many people expect cops to hand out extrajudicial beatings to act as a criminal deterrence.

yourdeadwright

KiKi III wrote: »

And there was absolutely no other way the three dozen cops there could have handled the situation? No possible way to de-escalate?

You view is so narrow minded sitting on your arm chair behind a computer,

The police had been removing crowds and protestors some they have come under attack , some of there work mates have been killed in the last few days They are also following orders ,
Do you really think they have the time to stop to speak to every protestor that gets in there way, ??

People where told where told to move on this man didn't he came forward again he lifted his hand toward a police mans service weapon ,

He is out calling a end to white privilege so why would he be treated like anyone else ?

The police shoved him away they did not mean for him to fall and hurt his head,

Where is the common sense here, the man was in the wrong not the police ,

KiKi III

yourdeadwright wrote: »

You view is so narrow minded sitting on your arm chair behind a computer,

The police had been removing crowds and protestors some they have come under attack , some of there work mates have been killed in the last few days They are also following orders ,
Do you really think they have the time to stop to speak to every protestor that gets in there way, ??

People where told where told to move on this man didn't he came forward again he lifted his hand toward a police mans service weapon ,

He is out calling a end to white privilege so why would he be treated like anyone else ?

The police shoved him away they did not mean for him to fall and hurt his head,

Where is the common sense here, the man was in the wrong not the police ,

Sorry, are you making the bizarre argument that we should be satisfied that a white person is being victimised by police in the same way a black person might be?

That that’s somehow a victory for racial justice?

Because the protests are aimed at treating black people with more humanity and respect, not treating white people with less.

If the police officer was not capable of controlling his emotions due to tiredness or the stress of the situation, he shouldn’t have been there.

You’re welcome to say it was the man’s fault as many times as you want, that cop is losing his job and rightfully so.

Christy42

walshb wrote: »

The riot cop that pushed the man away....should that cop really lose his entire career here? Because a man approached him and made contact with him, and he then pushed him away?

Because if we are calling this a bad apple, and a cop that should be gone, then there won't be any cops left...

Yes. He is obviously incapable of his job. Do you know how many people have bumped into the street? Do you know how many I have pushed over?

If he shouldn't be there then arrest him. That is generally meant to be what happens if you break the law and are not a physical threat. The first sign of violence is the police pushing the man over. Police should not escalate.