George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

yourdeadwright

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I wonder why this lad wasnt pushed over?

This is a totally different situation , why do people think different situation should have the same outcome,

In the above the man was aloud protest right where he was standing, he was not asked to move, the police in question where not riot cops trying to move a crowd,

2 different situation 2 different outcomes,

ohnonotgmail

yourdeadwright wrote: »

This is a totally different situation , why do people think different situation should have the same outcome,

In the above the man was aloud protest right where he was standing, he was not asked to move, the police in question where not riot cops trying to move a crowd,

2 different situation 2 different outcomes,

so shouting abuse at a cop is ok but talking to one deserves a physical response?

MeMen2_MoRi_

yourdeadwright wrote: »

See its the little details that make a huge difference,

The police officer clearly wanted to respect his right to assembly so did not arrest him but at the same time wanted to move him to an area they deemed safer for the protest to occur (which they have the right to do)

He pushed him away to make him leave the area but unfortunately he fell over and cracked his head, that clearly wasn't the intent ,

If he had of tuned and walked away after the push no one would say there was any wrong doing, it was very unfortunate that he fell over,

Little details that change peoples view drastically again I for one don't think a police man should lose his job and living over it ,

Yeah the little details...

Obstruction of police in their line of duty, not obeying a lawful order clear the area.. in the clip you see two sides of the argument playing out.. "riot police don't arrest people" that's why they just pushed him to move him on... "Riot police arresting someone seconds after Martin is pushed".

Why didn't they just push the other protester out of the way?
It's a case of pick and choose what law you're going to implement when ever it's suits, which leads you then have situations like these..
Do you agree he should of been arrested, seeing the potential laws he was breaking? Can you rationalize why within seconds they then implement what they should of done with Martin? Because I'm failing to understand, I also fail to understand how the PD are tweeting that Martin "tripped and fell", no mention of reaching for the gun (said yesterday) or feeling threatened, it was just a simple trip and fall.

Innocent parties don't lie.

yourdeadwright

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so shouting abuse at a cop is ok but talking to one deserves a physical response?

Again different situations

The police with the 75 year old man where told to clear the area and move protestor to a safer area , They had moved off loads of protestor he was refusing to move so they pushed him to move off, Unfortunate he fell ,

The above the police where happy to allow the protest to take place right there, the police where letting the guy use his right to protest and his right to assembly

I'm not pro cop or pro protestor I'm intelligent enough to realise there are times when both are right and both are wrong,
Just judge incidents on there individual merit like you would in life in general ,

MeMen2_MoRi_

Also, the sympathy for these two losing their jobs, don't worry, they can easily go to the next city or state and be rehired and carry on being a cop.

Peregrinus

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Are you for real none of your business who sent me the quote ,
If its wrong fair enough thats fine,

Doesn't really change my stance on it no matter who the man was,

He should have moved he didn't the cop pushed him to move he accidently and unfortunately fell over and hit his head, Terrible incident and no one involved intended it to happen , Police man certainly doesn't deserve to lose his job over it ,

YDW, you started off by posting a story for which there was absolutely no evidence, and which turns out to be completely bogus. Unembarrassed, you switch seamlessly to an entirely different story, one which is frankly incredible.

You give the impression of having a seriously defective bull**** detector. You will unthinkingly accept and propagate any old rubbish, however weak or stupid, provided it tends to justify the police actions. All that you require from an account of this incident is that it should vindicate the police. Whether it's likely to be true or not doesn't seem to matter. This is not a good look.

yourdeadwright

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Yeah the little details...

Obstruction of police in their line of duty, not obeying a lawful order clear the area.. in the clip you see two sides of the argument playing out.. "riot police don't arrest people" that's why they just pushed him to move him on... "Riot police arresting someone seconds after Martin is pushed".

Why didn't they just push the other protester out of the way?
It's a case of pick and choose what law you're going to implement when ever it's suits, which leads you then have situations like these..
Do you agree he should of been arrested, seeing the potential laws he was breaking? Can you rationalize why within seconds they then implement what they should of done with Martin? Because I'm failing to understand, I also fail to understand how the PD are tweeting that Martin "tripped and fell", no mention of reaching for the gun (said yesterday) or feeling threatened, it was just a simple trip and fall.

Innocent parties don't lie.

Ok lets think about this , do we know what the guy who got arrested was shouting ? Do why know what he did previously ?
Its possible the cops where giving the as much lie way as possible to move and then decided enough his enough and made arrests,

Whatever Martin was doing is irrelevant he should have been where he was ,it quite clear no one tried to hurt him, as I v said it was unfortunate , that he fell and banged his head,

Do you think the cop deserves to lose his job and lively hood for pushing a man ?

gibsmedat

Any news on the shopkeeper that had his head smashed in with rocks and a skateboard by BLM rioters? Seen reports on twitter he had died but nothing confirmed?

yourdeadwright

Peregrinus wrote: »

YDW, you started off by posting a story for which there was absolutely no evidence, and which turns out to be completely bogus. Unembarrassed, you switch seamlessly to an entirely different story, one which is frankly incredible.

You give the impression of having a seriously defective bull**** detector. You will unthinkingly accept and propagate any old rubbish, however weak or stupid, provided it tends to justify the police actions. All that you require from an account of this incident is that it should vindicate the police. Whether it's likely to be true or not doesn't seem to matter. This is not a good look.

I posted the quotes I seen if they are wrong that fair enough ,
Why would I be embarrassed ?


Ok lets make this as simple as possible an see can you agree

The man was somewhere he shouldn't have been and asked to move and didn't , he was then pushed and unfortunately fell over and banged his head , can we agree on that ?

We can all see there was no intent to hurt a man ? would you agree with that

My take is police man shouldn't lose his job over the incident ,

MeMen2_MoRi_

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ok lets think about this , do we know what the guy who got arrested was shouting ? Do why know what he did previously ?
Its possible the cops where giving the as much lie way as possible to move and then decided enough his enough and made arrests,

Whatever Martin was doing is irrelevant he should have been where he was ,it quite clear no one tried to hurt him, as I v said it was unfortunate , that he fell and banged his head,

Do you think the cop deserves to lose his job and lively hood for pushing a man ?

A great discussion is always had when questions are answered with questions.

The evidence we have at hand, is Martin walked up to police getting ready to clear the area, they give verbal warning prior to this (from other videos I've seen) he didn't listen.. he is obstructing them in their duty.. Arrest him!!! They go down the road of dishing out a push, he suffers a traumatic brain injury, they then proceed to arrest someone seconds later..

Do ****ty things, win ****ty prizes=Lose their jobs with BPD.

threeball

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Are you for real none of your business who sent me the quote ,
If its wrong fair enough thats fine,

Doesn't really change my stance on it no matter who the man was,

He should have moved he didn't the cop pushed him to move he accidently and unfortunately fell over and hit his head, Terrible incident and no one involved intended it to happen , Police man certainly doesn't deserve to lose his job over it ,

You don't push 75yr old men. They don't have the best balance and they pose little to no threat. If you don't see an issue in physically confronting a 75yr old man then you have a little reflecting to do.

yourdeadwright

threeball wrote: »

You don't push 75yr old men. They don't have the best balance and they pose little to no threat. If you don't see an issue in physically confronting a 75yr old man then you have a little reflecting to do.

Do they know he was 75 ?
Lets remember its not like he was 75 year old who walks up to you or me on the street , There is a huge crowd of protester they have been moving all day they are confronted by people every few seconds,

It was a very unfortunate incident ,

yourdeadwright

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

A great discussion is always had when questions are answered with questions.

The evidence we have at hand, is Martin walked up to police getting ready to clear the area, they give verbal warning prior to this (from other videos I've seen) he didn't listen.. he is obstructing them in their duty.. Arrest him!!! They go down the road of dishing out a push, he suffers a traumatic brain injury, they then proceed to arrest someone seconds later..

Do ****ty things, win ****ty prizes=Lose their jobs with BPD.

I agree with you here for the most part,

The may have thought there is no need to arrest him i'll just give him a push and he will move off, Save both parties trouble,

The push was not designed to hurt him but unfortunately he feel over which again no one wanted to see ,

threeball

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do they know he was 75 ?
Lets remember its not like he was 75 year old who walks up to you or me on the street , There is a huge crowd of protester they have been moving all day they are confronted by people every few seconds,

It was a very unfortunate incident ,

So now we're down to guessing ages. If I'm on a bus and I see an old frail guy do I ask him for his ID before I offer him my seat. Maybe I shouldn't bother and just push him out of my way when I'm getting off.

Its called common sense and decency. American cops in the main have none.

Retr0gamer

Violent intent or not the push was an act of aggression. It's assault. If he was causing trouble he should have been arrested to move him on. Instead they dished out violence which through a series of unfortunate events lead to serious injuries. There's no apology for it. If you did that to someone in the street you'd be charged rightfully with assault. The Police are upheld to the same laws as the citizens. 'It was an accident' is not a defense.

I'm sure the police arresting Floyd George didn't mean to murder him either but similarly their overly violent response lead to his death.

Both cases were caused by an overly violent response by the police. Which is kind of what these protests are about.

yourdeadwright

threeball wrote: »

So now we're down to guessing ages. If I'm on a bus and I see an old frail guy do I ask him for his ID before I offer him my seat. Maybe I shouldn't bother and just push him out of my way when I'm getting off.

Its called common sense and decency. American cops in the main have none.

Honestly I was surprised myself when I heard he was 75 but that's beside the point

Why would you do that to a man on a bus ?

Goes both ways if the an had common sense he would not have been where he was ,

Anyway every has there opinion which is fair enough

ThunbergsAreGo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Violent intent or not the push was an act of aggression. It's assault. If he was causing trouble he should have been arrested to move him on. Instead they dished out violence which through a series of unfortunate events lead to serious injuries. There's no apology for it. If you did that to someone in the street you'd be charged rightfully with assault. The Police are upheld to the same laws as the citizens. 'It was an accident' is not a defense.

I'm sure the police arresting Floyd George didn't mean to murder him either but similarly their overly violent response lead to his death.

Both cases were caused by an overly violent response by the police. Which is kind of what these protests are about.

Agree, both sides should be subject to the same laws.

Retr0gamer

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Goes both ways if the an had common sense he would not have been where he was

He has a constitutional right to peaceful protest.

MeMen2_MoRi_

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I agree with you here for the most part,

The may have thought there is no need to arrest him i'll just give him a push and he will move off, Save both parties trouble,

The push was not designed to hurt him but unfortunately he feel over which again no one wanted to see ,

I didn't mean to crash into the back of a car, I'm still responsible for the damage caused to the other car? Accidents happen, who takes responsibility is usually the one who causes the accident, (me in the car) the cops by pushing Martin. I don't believe there was intent on the cops part to cause him harm, their actions caused harm though.

threeball

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Honestly I was surprised myself when I heard he was 75 but that's beside the point

Why would you do that to a man on a bus ?

Goes both ways if the an had common sense he would not have been where he was ,

Anyway every has there opinion which is fair enough

Why do it to any elderly person anywhere. Thats what common thugs get involved in, not police forces.
You can have an opinion, its just obviously wrong from any reasonable standpoint.

Sheep_shear

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so shouting abuse at a cop is ok but talking to one deserves a physical response?

He's not shouting at the cops. I mean it's entirely obvious from that picture, the eye-lines, the perspective but if you want, go and look at what was actually happening. He's shouting at the people , counter-protestors that the cops are separating them from.

Bloody hell, I thought we all learned from those misleading crowding pics earlier in the pandemic?!

ohnonotgmail

Sheep_shear wrote: »

He's not shouting at the cops. I mean it's entirely obvious from that picture, the eye-lines, the perspective but if you want, go and look at what was actually happening. He's shouting at the people , counter-protestors that the cops are separating them from.

Bloody hell, I thought we all learned from those misleading crowding pics earlier in the pandemic?!

presumably you have another angle that shows what you claim?

yourdeadwright

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Violent intent or not the push was an act of aggression. It's assault. If he was causing trouble he should have been arrested to move him on. Instead they dished out violence which through a series of unfortunate events lead to serious injuries. There's no apology for it. If you did that to someone in the street you'd be charged rightfully with assault. The Police are upheld to the same laws as the citizens. 'It was an accident' is not a defense.

I'm sure the police arresting Floyd George didn't mean to murder him either but similarly their overly violent response lead to his death.

Both cases were caused by an overly violent response by the police. Which is kind of what these protests are about.

In essence you are correct,

The only problem is they would not be charged and either would you or I with assault in this incident,

The reason being they clearly told the man to move away but he did not he continued to walk towards them so they where acting in self defence , Any half decent solicitor would get the charges dropped .

Being police they would 100 % be able to claim the threat of unwanted physical contact , Police can not let people touch them for numerous reasons , What if he had a concealed weapon ,

Assault : unwanted physical contact upon a person or, in some specific legal definitions, a threat or attempt to commit such an action, or the

Self defence : necessary to defend him or herself against an apparent threat of unlawful and immediate violence from another."[1] In cases involving non-deadly force, this means that the person must reasonably believe that their use of force was necessary to prevent imminent, unlawful physical harm

ohnonotgmail

yourdeadwright wrote: »

In essence you are correct,

The only problem is they would not be charged and either would you or I with assault in this incident,

The reason being they clearly told the man to move away but he did not he continued to walk towards them so they where acting in self defence , Any half decent solicitor would get the charges dropped .

Being police they would 100 % be able to claim the threat of unwanted physical contact , Police can not let people touch them for numerous reasons

Assault : unwanted physical contact upon a person or, in some specific legal definitions, a threat or attempt to commit such an action, or the

Self defence : necessary to defend him or herself against an apparent threat of unlawful and immediate violence from another."[1] In cases involving non-deadly force, this means that the person must reasonably believe that their use of force was necessary to prevent imminent, unlawful physical harm

what threat does a 75 year old make to a cop in full riot gear who is surrounded by other cops in riot gear?

Retr0gamer

Yeah 75 year olds are awful scary and physical.

yourdeadwright

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what threat does a 75 year old make to a cop in full riot gear who is surrounded by other cops in riot gear?

In reality not much but in the eyes of the law his age doesn't matter ,

I'm just replying to someone who said me or you would be charged if we done that on the street , When in reality we more than likely would not

don't forget the cop has no idea if he is armed,

biko

yourdeadwright wrote: »

In the above the man was aloud protest

How Freudian

You meant "allowed"

ohnonotgmail

yourdeadwright wrote: »

In reality not much but in the eyes of the law his age doesn't matter ,

I'm just replying to someone who said me or you would be charged if we done that on the street , When in reality we more than likely would not

don't forget the cop has no idea if he is armed,

you just keep making up ****. you must think you are talking to right thickos.

yourdeadwright

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you just keep making up ****. you must think you are talking to right thickos.

Do you think the police will be charged ?
Shall we keep an eye on it and see what happens

ohnonotgmail

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do you think the police will be charged ?
Shall we keep an eye on it and see what happens

they should be charged. they assaulted a man. whether they will be charged is a different matter. the corrupt justice system looks after its own.