George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Overheal

THE_SHEEP wrote: »

Please provide evidence of the said officers being convicted of murder ? ( A clue : judge and jury , an actual JUDGEMENT against these officers )

And not just your " opinion " .

You know , clarity , and all that .

( P.s Only person with a conviction , in this instance , is Mr G . Floyd ) .

This is among the dumbest attempts at being clever in this entire thread.

I said it was murder. It is.

I said they were arrested they were. I said they were charged with murder. They were charged with murder.

Sheep walks up thinking he’s all clever saying “duuuuuh prove they were convicted”

Knowing full well we are far from that point. You are posting in bad faith.

walshb

Overheal wrote: »

We have a real problem here when someone trying to explain to you the root causes of the problem is smeared as an excuse monger.

I’m done talking with you then. You can try and figure this **** out on your own if that’s your attitude.

It's easier than you think to figure out

People to stop committing crime........people. Not cops. People

People to take responsibility for their actions and behaviors,

Carioco

walshb wrote: »

It's easier than you think to figure out

People to stop committing crime........people. Not cops. People

People to take responsibility for their actions and behaviors,

Does the Irish boxing community know your a racist?

Mod

Banned.

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

Well your the one waffling on about all the problems they face and granted some of them are genuine in America but yet when I ask you to explain how blacks kids are running amok here and Australia where they don't face the same issues as they do in the states you can't answer that ???

I genuinely cannot answer that because in the grand scheme of things I know fcuk all about Australia. Sorry not sorry. It’s hot there, land trains, sting rays murdered steve Irwin (self defense but you know still sad), and frogs like the plague or was it rats or bugs actually it could be all those things at different times. I don’t know anything about the politics or law enforcement or race relations or domestic affairs of Australia so you will have to find yourself another expert to talk to.

Oh and the matrix was filmed there. Third one had an unsatisfying conclusion though.

joe40

2u2me wrote: »

The most extreme views I've seen from the BLM leaders/protestors seems to be that they are looking for segregation. Boggles the mind. The moderates aren't denouncing this ****; too afraid to speak up.

They want an apartheid; where there is different justice systems for people with different colour skins.

Where is that been asked for. Is it from anyone of influence.

kildare lad

Overheal wrote: »

I genuinely cannot answer that because in the grand scheme of things I know fcuk all about Australia. Sorry not sorry. It’s hot there, land trains, sting rays murdered steve Irwin (self defense but you know still sad), and frogs like the plague or was it rats or bugs actually it could be all those things at different times. I don’t know anything about the politics or law enforcement or race relations or domestic affairs of Australia so you will have to find yourself another expert to talk to.

Oh and the matrix was filmed there. Third one had an unsatisfying conclusion though.

Well a bit closer to home then , why are African gangs running amok in some parts of Ireland then ? Their parents have been well looked after by our government and yet some of their kids act like thugs ? Is it the white man's fault again

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

This is among the dumbest attempts at being clever in this entire thread.

I said it was murder. It is.

I said they were arrested they were. I said they were charged with murder. They were charged with murder.

Sheep walks up thinking he’s all clever saying “duuuuuh prove they were convicted”

Knowing full well we are far from that point. You are posting in bad faith.

Still won't answer my question ??????

Head in the sand agenda guy .

And you accuse me of being " dumb "

Really .

Overheal

kildare lad wrote: »

Well a bit closer to home then , why are African gangs running amok in some parts of Ireland then ? Their parents have been well looked after by our government and yet a lot of their kids act like thugs ? Is it the white man's fault again

I haven’t lived in Ireland since 2007 and I only lived there starting about 2000, I was a teenager and I took no absorption of any gang culture or gang related politics while I was there so again I’m afraid I am not the guy you need to talk to and there is little I can say to answer your questions. I will say that white Irish kids, as young as 6 and 7 were listening to rap music etc. when I left. If they chose to romanticize gang culture into their own warped little thing it’s a facsimile of the US and has little direct bearing on the root of the problems in the US. Ultimately I’m just not who you need to be talking to if you want an earnest discussion about gangs in Ireland for which there is an entire, long running thread about on the forum, of which I have not posted in because I have nothing to add.

Overheal

THE_SHEEP wrote: »

Still won't answer my question ??????

Head in the sand agenda guy .

And you accuse me of being " dumb "

Really .

I already answered your question: that you know full well conviction is far ahead of us. That I never claimed anyone was convicted of his murder and that you pretending that is what I claimed is bad faith posting. I am calling you a bad faith poster.

joe40

2u2me wrote: »

The most extreme views I've seen from the BLM leaders/protestors seems to be that they are looking for segregation. Boggles the mind. The moderates aren't denouncing this ****; too afraid to speak up.

They want an apartheid; where there is different justice systems for people with different colour skins.

Where is that been asked for. Is it from anyone of influence.

yourdeadwright

Carioco wrote: »

Does the Irish boxing community know your a racist?

Can you please show where he is racist ?
You know its disgusting to make something up about someone with no base for the accusation ,

Myself and Walshy have had our disagreements but the guys is not racist in any form ,

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

It's easier than you think to figure out

People to stop committing crime........people. Not cops. People

People to take responsibility for their actions and behaviors,

Clearly you haven’t reviewed the reality of what’s happening in America. And you’ve already labeled me an excuse monger for helping explain it to you. So I just won’t.

peddlelies

Overheal wrote: »

I’ve got enough **** to talk about and unpack here in the United States that I don’t need to go down a rabbit hole with your problems over there or somewhere else. What happens in Ireland is not the same is what happens in Melbourne is not the same as what happens in Minneapolis is not the same as what happens in Los Angeles or in New York. We have got too much **** to unpack right here without obfuscating to an international scope.

biko

Overheal wrote: »

George Floyd was murdered. Officers have been arrested for his murder. Officers have been charged with his murder. It’s murder.

There are still no convictions, but I agree it's clear the police caused his death.

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

No I don’t see any problem with the logic. We have 17,000 police departments in my country, which a bar certified US attorney would know. Police are very localized to the communities they serve. Police can take a knee if they want to remind the people they serve and protect that their lives matter. They aren’t taking a knee telling these people how to vote! Jesus

I know that in this case your probably right but where do you draw the line ?

You seem to think you have all the answers ,

So how do you then decide what social movements to political ones they can NOT join on the job ?
How do you decide that point where its "WRONG"

For example say there is white power rally and a cop works in a hick town where it takes place should they be allowed join because the community they serve agree with it ?

Surely your not saying they can join any social movement they agree with while on duty ?

You can not fairly draw a line and have one rule for some and one rule for others ,

So instead you tell police while there on the job and on duty they put there social and political idea aside and do the job there paid to do ,

Overheal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I know that in this case your probably right but where do you draw the line ?

You seem to think you have all the answers ,

So how do you then decide what social movements to political ones they can NOT join on the job ?
How do you decide that point where its "WRONG"

For example say there is white power rally and a cop works in a hick town where it takes place should they be allowed join because the community they serve agree with it ?

Surely your not saying they can join any social movement they agree with while on duty ?

You can not fairly draw a line and have one rule for some and one rule for others ,

So instead you tell police while there on the job and on duty they put there social and political idea aside and do the job there paid to do ,

Telling a cop he can’t connect with the people he protects and serves or else he will be fired by the same unions that have been identified as part of the problem, is simply wrong.

There are defined rules about police being neutral in that they can’t flash bumper stickers or buttons or picket signs etc. but we are talking about a really simple gesture. It’s not even one degree removed from firing officers for hugging members of the public grieving over the violence.

I don’t have all the answers I just speak often and loudly about the things I do know and about where you and others can find your own information about it. If I just start dumping links none of you will read it, or watch it. So we’re having a more personal conversation about it, as is tradition on boards.

Tell me how

walshb wrote: »

I listened to a video on FB there of a black man. Former cop or mayor or something, and he said cops are less likely to get rough with black people than white people....

This whole movement is an absolute disgraceful overreaction to a death.

I listened to a black man talk about how a black cop reported his white partner for the use of excessive violence and the black cop was fired.

People aren't just protesting because of George Floyd.
His death was the straw that put the camels back under even more pressure, if not broke it entirely. Only time will tell exactly which it was.

You are long enough talking on this thread to no longer be able to claim ignorance of just what is happening and why.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

I already answered your question: that you know full well conviction is far ahead of us. That I never claimed anyone was convicted of his murder and that you pretending that is what I claimed is bad faith posting. I am calling you a bad faith poster.

So you'll admit that the officer in question, has not been convicted of murder , and is therefore INNOCENT till proven guilty .

I know that was tough for you , with your agenda and all , and I applaud you for your honesty .

You see , my point is .

You cannot post on forums about certain people's rights , or lack of , and deny other people their rights ( right to fair trial etc ) .

You come across to fair minded people , such as myself , as being a " Coin " , ( ie two faced ).

Overheal

Tell me how wrote: »

I listened to a black man talk about how a black cop reported his white partner for the use of excessive violence and the black cop was fired.

People aren't just protesting because of George Floyd.
His death was the straw that put the camels back under even more pressure, if not broke it entirely. Only time will tell exactly which it was.

You are long enough talking on this thread to no longer be able to claim ignorance of just what is happening and why.

That’s the cop who went on to kill two other cops in an act of vigilante justice, who was then chased to a cabin by 400 police officers. I vividly remember watching that unfold live in my fathers living room. You best believe cops are a gang. Four h u n d r e d officers for one perp. They wanted a lynching. The police scanner that day isn’t flattering.

Overheal

THE_SHEEP wrote: »

So you'll admit that the officer in question, has not been convicted of murder , and is therefore INNOCENT till proven guilty .

I know that was tough for you , with your agenda and all , and I applaud you for your honesty .

You see , my point is .

You cannot post on forums about certain people's rights , or lack of , and deny other people their rights ( right to fair trial etc ) .

You come across to fair minded people , such as myself , as being a " Coin " , ( ie two faced ).

This is what I mean about you being a bad faith poster. Instead of all of that back and forth drivel all you had to add to what I said was “they haven’t been convicted yet, let’s wait and see etc” instead you went to great lengths to pretend yourself very clever for nothing of value.

walshb

Overheal wrote: »

This is what I mean about you being a bad faith poster. Instead of all of that back and forth drivel all you had to add to what I said was “they haven’t been convicted yet, let’s wait and see etc” instead you went to great lengths to pretend yourself very clever for nothing of value.

But don't you think people (everyone everywhere) all over labeling Chauvin a murderer right form the get go is not right?

Labeling the death as murder....

I know he has been charged with murder. First it was 3rd degree and now 2nd I believe.

The man has not even been in court for the trial yet.

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

Telling a cop he can’t connect with the people he protects and serves or else he will be fired by the same unions that have been identified as part of the problem, is simply wrong.

There are defined rules about police being neutral in that they can’t flash bumper stickers or buttons or picket signs etc. but we are talking about a really simple gesture. It’s not even one degree removed from firing officers for hugging members of the public grieving over the violence.

I don’t have all the answers I just speak often and loudly about the things I do know and about where you and others can find your own information about it. If I just start dumping links none of you will read it, or watch it. So we’re having a more personal conversation about it, as is tradition on boards.

I'll ask the same question again how do you decide when letting him do it is right or wrong,


"Telling a cop he can’t connect with the people he protects and serves or else he will be fired by the same unions that have been identified as part of the problem, is simply wrong "


A white cop in a hick town could use your above definition in way that would be completely wrong ,

The Nazi's had " simply gesture " in there fu*cked up eyes , I know in this case its not like that but to make sure these things don't happen down the line it would be easier to tell cops to remain neutral while on Duty ,

I have already said I don't agree with the "Why" from the Union boss

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

But don't you think people (everyone everywhere) all over labeling Chauvin a murderer right form the get go is not right?

Labeling the death as murder....

I know he has been charged with murder. First it was 3rd degree and now 2nd I believe.

The man has not even been in court for the trial yet.

I don’t need to be a veterinarian to know a horse when I see one. I don’t need any special credentials to watch a murder happen right before my eyes and know what it is.

All the court will decide is how premeditated it was, and whether the murder happened under qualified immunity. That’s it. That’s all window dressing to the fact that he was murdered.

Christy42

walshb wrote: »

But don't you think people (everyone everywhere) all over labeling Chauvin a murderer right form the get go is not right?

Labeling the death as murder....

I know he has been charged with murder. First it was 3rd degree and now 2nd I believe.

The man has not even been in court for the trial yet.

Great. Good to hear basically no one has been looting or rioting and you have complained of neither over the last while. Brilliant news. How many of them have seen a court room at this stage?

I saw a post about a women setting fire to police cars. She could use an apology front he thread as well.

Overheal

Christy42 wrote: »

Great. Good to hear basically no one has been looting or rioting and you have complained of neither over the last while. Brilliant news. How many of them have seen a court room at this stage?

I saw a post about a women setting fire to police cars. She could use an apology front he thread as well.

Thank you exactly this. People didn’t need to wait for convictions to call looting “looting” or arson “arson.”

George Floyd was murdered.

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

Thank you exactly this. People didn’t need to wait for convictions to call looting “looting” or arson “arson.”

George Floyd was murdered.

Something I do agree with you on,
Whatever about anything else the man was murder and should not have been ,

briany

walshb wrote: »

But don't you think people (everyone everywhere) all over labeling Chauvin a murderer right form the get go is not right?

It's some sorry state the world has gotten itself into where you can't even kneel on the neck of a restrained man for 8 minutes while he pleads for his life and then dies, without being called a murderer. :rolleyes:

walshb

Overheal wrote: »

Thank you exactly this. People didn’t need to wait for convictions to call looting “looting” or arson “arson.”

George Floyd was murdered.

Looting is a little bit more clear cut here....

Videos show exactly people looting, whether caught or not. They were clearly looting

Chauvin is being tried for the death of a man. Whether they can show it was deliberate ending of life (murder) or reckless actions that resulted in death is where it gets tricky.

I personally am torn.....would have no real issue with him being found guilty of 2nd degree murder.

Outlaw Pete

Overheal wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tR6mKcBbT4

New presentation from Dave about George Floyd and other simmering injustices and why it’s bull**** to expect celebrities to be the spokespeople for this

My God that was trash, and I say that as a Chappelle fan.

His comments about Candace were disgusting, obviously, but also essentially based on a strawman as she never excused Floyd's killing let alone told White America 'not to worry about it'. Her initial tweet was headed with "I hope George's family gets justice" and she also prefaced her comments with:

"There is no dispute and no argument that you are going to hear from me that what Derek Chauvin did was right .. that is not why I am doing this video, this is not a defense of Derek Chauvin, this is not a video to say that when you're a criminal you deserve to die. Nope, none of that, I want to talk about martyring criminals. I believe in second chances, but I don't know that I believe in 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th chances."

So quite clearly her point was that she doesn't believe this man is worthy of being spoken of the way he was. Not saying she is either right or wrong, but if Chappelle (or others) disagree with her then condemn her for what she actually said. Don't make s*** up about her apparently being okay with how he was treated.

It's amazing to me how people like Chappelle can go on about dividing America but yet they do more to divide America than those they're pointing their fingers at. He says, for example, that Candace is talking to White America, as if no black people agree with her but there is a whole Blexit movement behind her and from what I have seen over the last week or so, they very much think her comments about martyring criminals are correct.

Chappelle speaks of the Dallas cops that were murdered and reasons that these killings happened because these men had an instinct to protect black people from a racist police force, just as Obama had implied also, but whist it may be true that these men felt that to be the case, that does not make it so and all Chappelle is doing is continuing to feed into a false narrative. A narrative which by his own admission resulted in the murder of multiple police officers.

He namechecks many unarmed people that were killed by cops over the years. All of them black, of course, and this is the problem, because as long as the discussion surrounding police brutality in America is allowed to take place with exclusion of white people who lose their lives in similar ways, then the false narrative that there is systemic racism within the US Police force will just continue.

Chappelle says at one point that he wishes 'white women' would shut up, suggesting that their voice has no place in this discussion, but I'm sure there are white women in Justine Damond's family, and Daniel Shaver's family, and Jeremy Mardis's family who feel that they have something to say about police brutality and we damn sure know there is in Timpa's:

'You're gonna kill me!': Dallas police body cam footage reveals the final minutes of Tony Timpa's life

Tony Timpa wailed and pleaded for help more than 30 times as Dallas police officers pinned his shoulders, knees and neck to the ground.

“You’re gonna kill me! You’re gonna kill me! You’re gonna kill me!”

After Timpa fell unconscious, the officers who had him in handcuffs assumed he was asleep and didn’t confirm that he was breathing or feel for a pulse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snYMV8HbJ_s

Tell me how

walshb wrote: »

Looting is a little bit more clear cut here....

Videos show exactly people looting, whether caught or not. They were clearly looting

Chauvin is being tried for the death of a man. Whether they can show it was deliberate ending of life (murder) or reckless actions that resulted in death is where it gets tricky.

Not exactly, I have it on good authority that the lady setting fire to the car was concerned that someone infected with Covid-19 had been in the car and therefore she felt it was best to use intense heat to kill the virus.

This is also the reason why she was wearing the mask.

See how ridiculous some statements sound?