George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

Thank you exactly this. People didn’t need to wait for convictions to call looting “looting” or arson “arson.”

George Floyd was murdered.

Something I do agree with you on,
Whatever about anything else the man was murder and should not have been ,

briany

walshb wrote: »

But don't you think people (everyone everywhere) all over labeling Chauvin a murderer right form the get go is not right?

It's some sorry state the world has gotten itself into where you can't even kneel on the neck of a restrained man for 8 minutes while he pleads for his life and then dies, without being called a murderer. :rolleyes:

walshb

Overheal wrote: »

Thank you exactly this. People didn’t need to wait for convictions to call looting “looting” or arson “arson.”

George Floyd was murdered.

Looting is a little bit more clear cut here....

Videos show exactly people looting, whether caught or not. They were clearly looting

Chauvin is being tried for the death of a man. Whether they can show it was deliberate ending of life (murder) or reckless actions that resulted in death is where it gets tricky.

I personally am torn.....would have no real issue with him being found guilty of 2nd degree murder.

Outlaw Pete

Overheal wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tR6mKcBbT4

New presentation from Dave about George Floyd and other simmering injustices and why it’s bull**** to expect celebrities to be the spokespeople for this

My God that was trash, and I say that as a Chappelle fan.

His comments about Candace were disgusting, obviously, but also essentially based on a strawman as she never excused Floyd's killing let alone told White America 'not to worry about it'. Her initial tweet was headed with "I hope George's family gets justice" and she also prefaced her comments with:

"There is no dispute and no argument that you are going to hear from me that what Derek Chauvin did was right .. that is not why I am doing this video, this is not a defense of Derek Chauvin, this is not a video to say that when you're a criminal you deserve to die. Nope, none of that, I want to talk about martyring criminals. I believe in second chances, but I don't know that I believe in 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th chances."

So quite clearly her point was that she doesn't believe this man is worthy of being spoken of the way he was. Not saying she is either right or wrong, but if Chappelle (or others) disagree with her then condemn her for what she actually said. Don't make s*** up about her apparently being okay with how he was treated.

It's amazing to me how people like Chappelle can go on about dividing America but yet they do more to divide America than those they're pointing their fingers at. He says, for example, that Candace is talking to White America, as if no black people agree with her but there is a whole Blexit movement behind her and from what I have seen over the last week or so, they very much think her comments about martyring criminals are correct.

Chappelle speaks of the Dallas cops that were murdered and reasons that these killings happened because these men had an instinct to protect black people from a racist police force, just as Obama had implied also, but whist it may be true that these men felt that to be the case, that does not make it so and all Chappelle is doing is continuing to feed into a false narrative. A narrative which by his own admission resulted in the murder of multiple police officers.

He namechecks many unarmed people that were killed by cops over the years. All of them black, of course, and this is the problem, because as long as the discussion surrounding police brutality in America is allowed to take place with exclusion of white people who lose their lives in similar ways, then the false narrative that there is systemic racism within the US Police force will just continue.

Chappelle says at one point that he wishes 'white women' would shut up, suggesting that their voice has no place in this discussion, but I'm sure there are white women in Justine Damond's family, and Daniel Shaver's family, and Jeremy Mardis's family who feel that they have something to say about police brutality and we damn sure know there is in Timpa's:

'You're gonna kill me!': Dallas police body cam footage reveals the final minutes of Tony Timpa's life

Tony Timpa wailed and pleaded for help more than 30 times as Dallas police officers pinned his shoulders, knees and neck to the ground.

“You’re gonna kill me! You’re gonna kill me! You’re gonna kill me!”

After Timpa fell unconscious, the officers who had him in handcuffs assumed he was asleep and didn’t confirm that he was breathing or feel for a pulse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snYMV8HbJ_s

Tell me how

walshb wrote: »

Looting is a little bit more clear cut here....

Videos show exactly people looting, whether caught or not. They were clearly looting

Chauvin is being tried for the death of a man. Whether they can show it was deliberate ending of life (murder) or reckless actions that resulted in death is where it gets tricky.

Not exactly, I have it on good authority that the lady setting fire to the car was concerned that someone infected with Covid-19 had been in the car and therefore she felt it was best to use intense heat to kill the virus.

This is also the reason why she was wearing the mask.

See how ridiculous some statements sound?

walshb

Tell me how wrote: »

Not exactly, I have it on good authority that the lady setting fire to the car was concerned that someone infected with Covid-19 had been in the car and therefore she felt it was best to use intense heat to kill the virus.

This is also the reason why she was wearing the mask.

See how ridiculous some statements sound?

You are right. Your statements here do sound ridiculous.

Overheal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'll ask the same question again how do you decide when letting him do it is right or wrong,


"Telling a cop he can’t connect with the people he protects and serves or else he will be fired by the same unions that have been identified as part of the problem, is simply wrong "


A white cop in a hick town could use your above definition in way that would be completely wrong ,

The Nazi's had " simply gesture " in there fu*cked up eyes , I know in this case its not like that but to make sure these things don't happen down the line it would be easier to tell cops to remain neutral while on Duty ,

I have already said I don't agree with the "Why" from the Union boss

Well that’s getting into a whole other can of worms now you’re talking about hate crimes. And the NYPD is under probe for officers reportedly making white power gestures during the protests. Kneeling isn’t hate speech. Neither is a cop saying “merry Christmas” or “happy holidays” but bet your bottom dollar of a union fired a cop for saying the wrong Christmas or holiday salutation to someone that would be tremendously wrong of them. Same if they fired a cop for saying “Go Lakers!” Etc.

Overheal

briany wrote: »

It's some sorry state the world has gotten itself into where you can't even kneel on the neck of a restrained man for 8 minutes while he pleads for his life and then dies, without being called a murderer. :rolleyes:

8 minutes and 46 seconds.

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

Looting is a little bit more clear cut here....

Videos show exactly people looting, whether caught or not. They were clearly looting

Chauvin is being tried for the death of a man. Whether they can show it was deliberate ending of life (murder) or reckless actions that resulted in death is where it gets tricky.

I personally am torn.....would have no real issue with him being found guilty of 2nd degree murder.

Then you agree it’s murder! That’s all folks!

BorneTobyWilde

biko wrote: »

Now you can order food by race.

https://twitter.com/UberEats/status/1268643816292020224

Can you imagine if it was only promoting white businesses.

Tell me how

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

but I'm sure there are white women in Justine Damond's family, and Daniel Shaver's family, and Jeremy Mardis's family who feel that they have something to say about police brutality and we damn sure know there is in Timpa's:

I see you now are accepting that police brutality is widespread.

About time.

In terms of the rest of your comments on Chappelle, he was talking about Candace and how she generally carries and positions herself as much as he was commenting on her speaking out about Floyd.

Also, a question for you, which is more offensive, saying that a woman has a stinky pu**y, or saying that it is ok to grab women by the pu**y when you are famous?

Overheal

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Can you imagine if it was only promoting white businesses.

400 years of racism, white supremacy:

America: I don’t really see anything wrong with this

Uber highlights black eateries:

“No wait just one god damn minute”

walshb

But you are all forgetting that this will be argued in court, with defense claiming that the cause of death wasn't Chauvin....An autopsy reporting it wasn't asphyxiation. Another reporting that it was....

"Chauvin was reckless and OTT, but he never intended for the man to die....."

This is what will be argued

Wonder what will happen if acquitted? Will people promote and encourage mayhem, in the guise of peaceful protesting? Because we know now clearly, that there is no such thing as peaceful protesting. People will hijack.

Tell me how

walshb wrote: »

But you are all forgetting that this will be argued in court, with defense claiming that the cause of death wasn't Chauvin....An autopsy reporting it wasn't asphyxiation. Another reporting that it was....

Chauvin was reckless and OTT, but he never intended for the man to die.....

This is what will be argued

Wonder what will happen if acquitted? Will people promote and encourage mayhem, in the guise of peaceful protesting? Because we know now clearly, that there is no such thing as peaceful protesting. People will hijack.

How do you know he never intended for the man to die?

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

Well that’s getting into a whole other can of worms now you’re talking about hate crimes. And the NYPD is under probe for officers reportedly making white power gestures during the protests. Kneeling isn’t hate speech. Neither is a cop saying “merry Christmas” or “happy holidays” but bet your bottom dollar of a union fired a cop for saying the wrong Christmas or holiday salutation to someone that would be tremendously wrong of them. Same if they fired a cop for saying “Go Lakers!” Etc.

They can march or rally without actually breaking the law but you still wouldn't want a police man involved ,(not that you'd want anyone involved but you get me )

I just think your best off not leaving anything to chance in this time ,

Anyway we its not going to solve the problems we currently have one way or another,

walshb

Tell me how wrote: »

How do you know he never intended for the man to die?

I never said that. I implied that this is what the defense will argue.....read my sentence under it.....I should have put it in quotes

I can't know for certain, but if I had to call it, I'd say that you should have known that he could have died, so for that, you are guilty.

briany

Do you think if the roles were reversed, Floyd would have had a chance of getting off on an, "Oops, didn't mean it." defence?

MeMen2_MoRi_

walshb wrote: »

But you are all forgetting that this will be argued in court, with defense claiming that the cause of death wasn't Chauvin....An autopsy reporting it wasn't asphyxiation. Another reporting that it was....

Chauvin was reckless and OTT, but he never intended for the man to die.....

This is what will be argued

Wonder what will happen if acquitted? Will people promote and encourage mayhem, in the guise of peaceful protesting? Because we know now clearly, that there is no such thing as peaceful protesting. People will hijack.

He knew for 2 minutes that there was no pulse, not once but twice a pulse was taken and none found.

What is suppose to happen when a police officer has a person in custody with no pulse?

A) continue restraining
begin CPR

Yeah let's go with he didn't want to kill him.

walshb

briany wrote: »

I'm sure that if a black man of the same background as George Floyd killed a white man (not even a cop, necessarily) in the same fashion, with the same level of evidence, it wouldn't be a murder trial. Because the cops would have put a few dozen bullets in said black man, if he were found.

It's this type **** that creates killing and hate.....

OTT exaggeration about people....bringing in color to everything...

walshb

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

He knew for 2 minutes that there was no pulse, not once but twice a pulse was taken and none found.

What is suppose to happen when a police officer has a person in custody with no pulse?

A) continue restraining
begin CPR

Yeah let's go with he didn't want to kill him.

I don't disagree with you. I was simply pointing out how this likely goes in a court of law....

Defense doing all they can to show that it was not murder.

walshb

briany wrote: »

Do you think if the roles were reversed, Floyd would have had a chance of getting off on an, "Oops, didn't mean it." defence?

OJ got off, didn't he?

And the evidence was overwhelming there...

A lot may depend on the jury makeup.

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

But you are all forgetting that this will be argued in court, with defense claiming that the cause of death wasn't Chauvin....An autopsy reporting it wasn't asphyxiation. Another reporting that it was....

Chauvin was reckless and OTT, but he never intended for the man to die.....

This is what will be argued

Wonder what will happen if acquitted? Will people promote and encourage mayhem, in the guise of peaceful protesting? Because we know now clearly, that there is no such thing as peaceful protesting. People will hijack.

Perhaps the wrath of god would be unleashed. Who knows?

I can tell you that given the events surrounding the LA riots that people will not throw their hands up in the air and say “oh well.” People would March and people who want to cause trouble would join them. But that doesn’t mean they definitely will. LA happened for a lot of reasons, not just Rodney Kings abusers getting acquitted, that was just the last straw. Eg. A black man was thrown in jail for 30 days for animal abuse, a Korean shop owner was given a suspended sentence for shooting a black girl in the back of the head, and Rodney Kings abusers went scot free. Those are just the highlights.

What everyone can or should agree on is that George Floyd was murdered. The question is is the system that society has built able to exact justice? If the system will not enact justice the people will enact their own justice, demand the system change, or both.

I wouldn’t get too distracted by BLM. This is a police state issue. It does have racist foundations, that are undeniable. But people who defend the system want people to attack BLM on this line of “why just blacks?” Seeking to divide people who all agree that the system of law and order in the United States is broken from the very bottom to the very top.

MeMen2_MoRi_

walshb wrote: »

I don't disagree with you. I was simply pointing out how this likely goes in a court of law....

Defense doing all they can to show that it was not murder.

"Never intended for the man to die" is your words. Not doing CPR as soon as he knew there was no pulse, there is intent to let him die. Lack of/no oxygen to the brain for 2 minutes because he wants to continue to sit a top of him, I'll go with intent to cause serious harm/death.

walshb

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

"Never intended for the man to die" is your words. Not doing CPR as soon as he knew there was no pulse, there is intent to let him die. Lack of/no oxygen to the brain for 2 minutes because he wants to continue to sit a top of him, I'll go with intent to cause serious harm/death.

FFS, I was intending it as their (defense) words, not mine....

I told you. I forgot to put quotes to be extra clear...

Your are being deliberately obtuse here to create argument.....

Defense will likely say that Chauvin did not intend George to die.....

I am not saying that at all, because it is not possible for me, or anyone to know. Only Chauvin really knows.

Outlaw Pete

Tell me how wrote: »

I see you now are accepting that police brutality is widespread.

About time.

"About time" ?? lol

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

There seems to be a determined attempt to show that black people are being oppressed in America and that there is systemic racism in the police force and it really isn't helping. There absolutely should be marches on the street right now, but they shouldn't be about black lives mattering, they should be about police brutality as a whole, as that is what the real issue is.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You say that as of police brutality is not something other races have to contend with but that's just false, no matter how many hashtags claim otherwise. The truth is that when the victims of police brutality are white, the mainstream media just don't report on those instances of police brutality in anywhere near as amplified a way as when the victim was black and the cop white. Daniel Shaver perhaps the only case of an unarmed white guy being killed which was covered comparably to a white cop black victim killing.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

The truth is Police brutality in America is something which affects all races and it should not be a problem which is discussed from the perspective that it only affects one. There are many factors at play in such deaths. Screaming racism just because a cop was white and the victim black helps nobody and just fuels division. In fact some studies have even shown that there is more hesitation when a suspect is black given the reactions we have seen over the years.

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

FFS, I was intending it as their (defense) words, not mine....

I told you. I forgot to put quotes to be extra clear...

Your are being deliberately obtuse here to create argument.....

Defense will likely say that Chauvin did not intend George to die.....

They’ll say that but I think the other arguments in the last few posts nail their coffin. No pulse no CPR no apparent concern for his health or well being

And hands in his pockets.

He didn’t give a ****.

MeMen2_MoRi_

walshb wrote: »

FFS, I was intending it as their (defense) words, not mine....

I told you. I forgot to put quotes to be extra clear...

Your are being deliberately obtuse here to create argument.....

Defense will likely say that Chauvin did not intend George to die.....

Yes, and the prosecution has the evidence to prove that to be wrong.

walshb

Overheal wrote: »

They’ll say that but I think the other arguments in the last few posts nail their coffin. No pulse no CPR no apparent concern for his health or well being

And hands in his pockets.

He didn’t give a ****.

I agree.......

Hands in pockets and defiant stare at the "hecklers" really disturbed me.

briany

walshb wrote: »

OJ got off, didn't he?

And the evidence was overwhelming there...

A lot may depend on the jury makeup.

Last time I checked, the case against OJ wasn't so strong as to feature HD video of him stabbing his wife, and looking into the camera nonchalantly while he did it. Not that I'm saying he did or did not do it.

But before this segues into a side argument about OJ Simpson, I still am thoroughly unconvinced that a man such as Floyd would have been able to kill a cop in the same fashion with the same level of evidence and even expect to live to tell the story, never mind go on trial.

walshb

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Yes, and the prosecution has the evidence to prove that to be wrong.

But can they prove it?

You know the defense will attack it vigorously and bring in every expert then can to discredit

Typical defense, of course. And to be expected.

Anyone thinking the case is clear cut is being very naive.