George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Overheal

I just can’t fathom how the jury isn’t going to be asked why he had his hands in his pockets. His hands are a less lethal form of restraint. His hands can check pulse. I just don’t get it.

walshb

briany wrote: »

Last time I checked, the case against OJ wasn't so strong as to feature HD video of him stabbing his wife, and looking into the camera nonchalantly while he did it. Not that I'm saying he did or did not do it.

But before this segues into a side argument about OJ Simpson, I still am thoroughly unconvinced that a man such as Floyd would have been able to kill a cop in the same fashion with the same level of evidence and even expect to live to tell the story, never mind go on trial.

Ok, so you are blanket claiming that a whole force are capable of cold blooded murder if the reverse was true here?

Talk about stoking race relations....

You do realize that there are a lot of black people on the police force....? Would they be in on it, too, or just white cops?

Are you saying that white cops would not tolerate the reverse, and would kill a man in cold blood rather than apprehend?

MeMen2_MoRi_

I get that the two differing autopsies will be disputed greatly in court.. the defence "no asphyxiation" the prosecution "asphyxiation"..

The defenses case falls apart imo why chauvin when finding out twice that there was no pulse, why wasn't CPR started immediately. It's a complete dereliction of duty to protect life.

Outlaw Pete

Candace responded as she should I see. Pointless responding in kind with a comedian as they'll always win when it comes to trading one or two line insults back and forth. Instead challenging him to make his comments to her face, which of course he won't do, but sure would love to see it.


https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1271471604208472072

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

Ok, so you are blanket claiming that a whole force are capable of cold blooded murder if the reverse was true here?

Talk about stoking race relations....

You do realize that there are a lot of black people on the police force....? Would they be in on it, too, or just white cops?

Are you saying that white cops would not tolerate the reverse, and would kill a man in cold blood rather than apprehend?

Sorry but cops are a gang. If someone kills one of their own they will enact revenge. If the perp isn’t killed during the “arrest” they are taken somewhere a camera isn’t looking to have their gut checked.

I’ve seen too many examples of those videos and too many examples of people dying in police custody, often for less than killing a cop. But I stand by my mention of Christopher Dorner, and the 400 cops that showed up to that cabin.

abff

My wife and I were just talking about that today. We were remembering the riots when the police involved in the Rodney King assault were acquitted.

We both agreed that this would be as nothing compared to what would happen if Derek Chauvin is found not guilty.

Tell me how

walshb wrote: »

It's this type **** that creates killing and hate.....

OTT exaggeration about people....bringing in color to everything...

Ironically, the fact that you would suggest someone hypothesizing about how people would react were the people involved of a different skin colour shows how little you can comprehend the experiences which many in these communities have observed continuously throughout their lives.

For many, colour has been their everything, how they were viewed, treated, assessed.

US Society has gotten to this point because too many accuse one side of bringing colour in to everything while ignoring how it's the actions of those who don't talk about colour make the other side mention it so much.

walshb

Tell me how wrote: »

Ironically, the fact that you would suggest someone hypothesizing about how people would react were the people involved of a different skin colour shows how little you can comprehend the experiences which many in these communities have observed continuously throughout their lives.

For many, colour has been their everything, how they were viewed, treated, assessed.

US Society has gotten to this point because too many accuse one side of bringing colour in to everything while ignoring how it's the actions of those who don't talk about colour make the other side mention it so much.

The poster said below in quotes: This is a blanket attack on a whole section of people, and using color as the means. Many many many fine black and brown and white men and women being told that this is likely how they would react......

"I'm sure that if a black man of the same background as George Floyd killed a white man (not even a cop, necessarily) in the same fashion, with the same level of evidence, it wouldn't be a murder trial. Because the cops would have put a few dozen bullets in said black man, if he were found."

Overheal

A country founded on indentured servitude and chattel slavery and people think it was totally abolished?

“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”

That’s the law of the land to this day. And people wonder why race is always part of this topic? Come on.

MeMen2_MoRi_

walshb wrote: »

But can they prove it?

You know the defense will attack it vigorously and bring in every expert then can to discredit

Typical defense, of course. And to be expected.

Anyone thinking the case is clear cut is being very naive.

Prove that there was no pulse and restraint was continued? Yes, thats how I'm able to say it. There'll bodycam footage of the officers talking, there'll be radio calls etc.
The acts perpetrated by the 4 (more so Derek) in varying degrees were all deliberate.

The way I view the video evidence is, that Derek didn't take to kindly to the resistance of George, and was looking to dole out punishment to some extent. He then finds out that there is no pulse, and continues to dole out punishment on a dead man hoping that when EMS arrives they can some how magically revive him after being with out oxygen for 2 minutes.

briany

abff wrote: »

We both agreed that this would be as nothing compared to what would happen if Derek Chauvin is found not guilty.

I would say the American public only has a finite amount of tolerance and sympathy for the current unrest. If there is a plan in place to protest and, to a lesser extent, riot twice as hard if Chauvin gets off (which I doubt will happen), there's probably a plan in place to come down twice as hard on the protesters, and even more so on the minority of rioters. And this could also be as the rest of America looks on, jaded with the whole thing.

walshb

Overheal wrote: »

Sorry but cops are a gang. If someone kills one of their own they will enact revenge. If the perp isn’t killed during the “arrest” they are taken somewhere a camera isn’t looking to have their gut checked.

I’ve seen too many examples of those videos and too many examples of people dying in police custody, often for less than killing a cop. But I stand by my mention of Christopher Dorner, and the 400 cops that showed up to that cabin.

But are you applying this to color?

The poster used color, and also said that it would not necessarily have to be a cop that was killed..

I quoted the poster. His post was specific. My post number 9290 responding to him.

Overheal

A groundswell of schools are now severing their buddy buddy relationships with police and sheriff departments, in light of protests.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/06/12/schools-police-george-floyd-protests/

The school-to-Prison pipeline is another outrage that hasn’t been remedied yet across the country.

Overheal

walshb wrote: »

But are you applying this to color?

The poster used color, and also said that it would not necessarily have to be a cop that was killed..

I quoted the poster. His post was specific. My post number 9290 responding to him.

Color matters too. The fact that cops see blue as equally as anyone else sees the color of the skin that you were born with tells you this.

joe40

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

My God that was trash, and I say that as a Chappelle fan.

His comments about Candace were disgusting, obviously, but also essentially based on a strawman as she never excused Floyd's killing let alone told White America 'not to worry about it'. Her initial tweet was headed with "I hope George's family gets justice" and she also prefaced her comments with:



So quite clearly her point was that she doesn't believe this man is worthy of being spoken of the way he was. Not saying she is either right or wrong, but if Chappelle (or others) disagree with her then condemn her for what she actually said. Don't make s*** up about her apparently being okay with how he was treated.

It's amazing to me how people like Chappelle can go on about dividing America but yet they do more to divide America than those they're pointing their fingers at. He says, for example, that Candace is talking to White America, as if no black people agree with her but there is a whole Blexit movement behind her and from what I have seen over the last week or so, they very much think her comments about martyring criminals are correct.

Chappelle speaks of the Dallas cops that were murdered and reasons that these killings happened because these men had an instinct to protect black people from a racist police force, just as Obama had implied also, but whist it may be true that these men felt that to be the case, that does not make it so and all Chappelle is doing is continuing to feed into a false narrative. A narrative which by his own admission resulted in the murder of multiple police officers.

He namechecks many unarmed people that were killed by cops over the years. All of them black, of course, and this is the problem, because as long as the discussion surrounding police brutality in America is allowed to take place with exclusion of white people who lose their lives in similar ways, then the false narrative that there is systemic racism within the US Police force will just continue.

Chappelle says at one point that he wishes 'white women' would shut up, suggesting that their voice has no place in this discussion, but I'm sure there are white women in Justine Damond's family, and Daniel Shaver's family, and Jeremy Mardis's family who feel that they have something to say about police brutality and we damn sure know there is in Timpa's:

Those killings of white people by the police are a tragedy so why haven't people been out protesting, since the majority of the country are white why isn't it an issue.
Are the black community fed up with injustice directed at them expected to do all the fighting.

I think too many white Americans especially Republicans are too caught up with their love affair with guns and militarised policing than they let these killings happen with little fuss.
Now suddenly but what about us.

If BLM achieve reform of policing, better oversight, better training, targeted resources ( police don't need tanks) then that will benefit all.

Justin Credible Darts

Overheal lives on this thread day and night jumping down anyones throat that has the audacity to have an opinion that differs from his.


I wont engage him anymore., though I am sure he will still try to illicit a reply from me

walshb

joe40 wrote: »

Those killings of white people by the police are a tragedy so why haven't people been out protesting, since the majority of the country are white why isn't it an issue.
Are the black community fed up with injustice directed at them expected to do all the fighting.

I think too many white Americans especially Republicans are too caught up with their love affair with guns and militarised policing than they let these killings happen with little fuss.
Now suddenly but what about us.

If BLM achieve reform of policing, better oversight, better training, targeted resources ( police don't need tanks) then that will benefit all.

Why do people have to be “out” protesting?

You can protest and make a case and a stand without needing be out there.

And in this case, out there has involved anarchy and mayhem ..

Do you think no protesting occurred for these other deaths?

Justin Credible Darts

its also very possible Floyd was killed for personal reasons rather than racial issues.

The cop and floyd seemingly knew each other and there was friction long before this, and the fact that floyd was a convicted armed robber, drug user and thief most likely gave the cop the impression he could get away with what he did...which was wrong before anyone thinks i am defending the crooked cop.

Overheal

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

its also very possible Floyd was killed for personal reasons rather than racial issues.

The cop and floyd seemingly knew each other and there was friction long before this, and the fact that floyd was a convicted armed robber, drug user and thief most likely gave the cop the impression he could get away with what he did...which was wrong before anyone thinks i am defending the crooked cop.

Why would a cop think that?? If he knew Floyd he knew Floyd was duly convicted and served punishment. Where do you get this notion????

MeMen2_MoRi_

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

dont worry, you are not the first to be aware of this.
Overheal lives on this thread day and night jumping down anyones throat that has the audacity to have an opinion that differs from his.


I wont engage him anymore., though I am sure he will still try to illicit a reply from me

I stated what the prosecution will say, these are based on facts we know, I was in no way being obtuse. I know walshb stance when bringing up the defence of Derek, it's from the court process. It's never on reasons why Derek should be found guilty.

Overheal

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

I stated what the prosecution will say, these are based on facts we know, I was in no way being obtuse. I know walshb stance when bringing up the defence of Derek, it's from the court process. It's never on reasons why Derek should be found guilty.

If he wants to post devils advocate I don’t see the problem with it, I just wasn’t aware for the longest while there that is the position he was arguing from.

joe40

walshb wrote: »

Why do people have to be “out” protesting?

You can protest and make a case and a stand without needing be out there.

And in this case, out there has involved anarchy and mayhem ..

Do you think no protesting occurred for these other deaths?

Without protests it is not an issue, it is easy to ignore.

Right now the police are dealing with peaceful protests and unruly disorganized rioters and looters. Even the riots look disorganized.

The worry I have for America is that a faction of BLM become more militant, more organised.
Guns are easy to get. What happens if a splinter group becomes an armed militia. A very small number can do a lot of damage.
We know all about that in Ireland.

I'm not necessarily saying that will happen, but I think it is a possibility.

Black groups don't really have a history of organised armed uprising, but the sooner this is brought under control and real long term solutions found the better.

Overheal

joe40 wrote: »

Without protests it is not an issue, it is easy to ignore.

Right now the police are dealing with peaceful protests and unruly disorganized rioters and looters. Even the riots look disorganized.

The worry I have for America is that a faction of BLM become more militant, more organised.
Guns are easy to get. What happens if a splinter group becomes an armed militia. A very small number can do a lot of damage.
We know all about that in Ireland.

I'm not necessarily saying that will happen, but I think it is a possibility.

Black groups don't really have a history of organised armed uprising, but the sooner this is brought under control and real long term solutions found the better.

If that happened it’s a win win

The only time the NRA supported gun control it was because the black panthers did the exact same thing the iwantmyhaircuts movement did, they marched on a state Capitol armed with rifles to demand political action. Governor Reagan couldnt ban the “monkeys” (his words, captured on a hot mic elsewhere) from having assault rifles fast enough!

If it takes blacks re-arming themselves to get establishment fixtures to actually engage gun reform then I applaud their arming themselves.

Tell me how

walshb wrote: »

Why do people have to be “out” protesting?

You can protest and make a case and a stand without needing be out there.

And in this case, out there has involved anarchy and mayhem ..

Do you think no protesting occurred for these other deaths?

Because they tried the peaceful route, as you know, and were ridiculed, threatened with losing their jobs or being penalised.

How do you think someone can protest and make a stand without being out there given this fact?

Overheal

https://twitter.com/complexsports/status/1271115026946899969?s=21

He’s insulted more races than he has won

Surrender is the only best option for honoring that traitor rag though

joe40

Overheal wrote: »

https://twitter.com/complexsports/status/1271115026946899969?s=21

He’s insulted more races than he has won

Surrender is the only best option for honoring that traitor rag though

I know nothing about Nascar but he doesn't look like your typical F1 driver

shaveAbullock

But what's going to happen at Cork hurling and football when it resumes?

Overheal

Chauvin apparently will still get to draw his substantial pension when he turns 50 in 6 years estimated to be valued at over $1.5 million.

Minnesota does not cancel pensions for those convicted of a felony.

“ Less than half of the states strip pension for police convicted of felonies, and some others do so for those convicted of specific crimes like corruption or sexual crimes against minors.”

To think there are states in the union where a cop could rape a child and still collect millions in pension. What a world!

https://www.mediaite.com/news/two-cops-charged-in-george-floyd-killing-still-eligible-for-their-pensions-derek-chauvin-could-get-more-than-1-5-million/

That’s what happened to the cop that murdered David Shaver in the hotel hallway: the department rehired him to collect his pension!

Edgware

shaveAbullock wrote: »

But what's going to happen at Cork hurling and football when it resumes?

We'll have one senior hurling match and one senior football match to find out.
Then the Cork County Board can get off the bandwagon

shaveAbullock

Edgware wrote: »

We'll have one senior hurling match and one senior football match to find out.
Then the Cork County Board can get off the bandwagon

They have already made an announcement on the FLEGS

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0612/1147040-cork-gaa-to-confiscate-confederate-flags-from-fans/

To be fair it was already a controversial topic going back several years now.