George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

2u2me

Sam Harris' recent podcast is a good listen.

There have been calls to defund the police. This may be psychologically understandable when you've been watching videos on twitter of cops beating peaceful protestors. Those videos are infuriating.
But if you think a society without cops is a society you would want to live in; you have lost your mind.
Giving a monopoly on violence to the state is just about the best thing we have ever done as a species. It ranks right up there with keeping our sh1t out of our food.

Danzy

2u2me wrote: »

Sam Harris' recent podcast is a good listen.

It was exceptional. Uncomfortable listening for ideologues though

perfectkama

First post no specific agenda
In Ireland we have thrown resources at a minority group ( €1b) it still is a high crime rate so no guarantee same will happen and the Guards virtually ignore laws that are enforced on the wider community as the arrest is not worth pursuing.
I am sure some will taunt cops by saying you “can’t arrest me”
I think same model will be the result not perfect, policing again with 2 standards

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

Cal Thomas on the Last Word a couple of weeks ago said so many trillions of dollars (can't quite recall but think it was 24 trillion) have been spent in total trying to help impoverished and needy communities in the US, yet they still have the massive divide.

This can't be solved. The future is bleak.

joe40

US2 wrote: »

RTE headlines on twitter really hammering the 'far right" narrative in the headlines about London today .

Definitely didnt mention "far left" last week..

The majority of people are neither, sickening that our national broadcaster is trying to create division and hate.

I saw reports of violence last week on RTE

da_miser

US2 wrote: »

RTE headlines on twitter really hammering the 'far right" narrative in the headlines about London today .

Definitely didnt mention "far left" last week..

The majority of people are neither, sickening that our national broadcaster is trying to create division and hate.

When BLM where on the war path last week in London, next to no Police, yesterday the "far right" in London and Police everywhere, and im the only one who found that strange.

MontgomeryClift

Origins of the knee on the neck used by US police:

Over 100 Minnesota law enforcement officers attended a 2012 conference organized by the Israeli consulate in which Israeli police trained them. Israeli forces often use the knee-on-neck restraint on Palestinians…
Israel has been training law enforcement officers around the US for many years, despite the fact that Israeli forces have a long record of human rights violations…



Groups organizing Israeli trainings of US police are the ADL, Jewish Institute of National Security Affairs (JINSA), and the American Jewish Committee (AJC)…

https://israelpalestinenews.org/minn-cops-trained-by-israeli-police-who-often-use-knee-on-neck-restraint/

Meanwhile at the ADL:

We stand in solidarity with the Black community who is yet again subject to pain and suffering at the hands of a racist and unjust system.

https://www.adl.org/

This must be what they refer to as the Kosher sandwich.

Christy42

US2 wrote: »

RTE headlines on twitter really hammering the 'far right" narrative in the headlines about London today .

Definitely didnt mention "far left" last week..

The majority of people are neither, sickening that our national broadcaster is trying to create division and hate.

The left have had protests some of which went out of control. However at every stage there has been demands and you know what they want whether you agree with it or not.

The far right showed up, got what they wanted and decided they wanted a fight anyway and turned on those they were meant to be defending.

ExMachina1000

Christy42 wrote: »

The left have had protests some of which went out of control. However at every stage there has been demands and you know what they want whether you agree with it or not.

The far right showed up, got what they wanted and decided they wanted a fight anyway and turned on those they were meant to be defending.

BLM attacking police


https://twitter.com/Pazuzu______/status/1271795293160378368?s=20

take everything

2u2me wrote: »

Sam Harris' recent podcast is a good listen.

Listened to that there.
People should listen to it.
He cuts through the woke celebrity/media offence-taking and priority of feelings over facts which does nothing but obscure what's really happening.

A few things he lays out facts and acknowledges that they will be at odd with these feelings and unpopular.

IIRC they are:

1000 people killed by cops in the US every year. Most of those not unarmed.

Translating to 1 in 10000 of police arrests and 1 in 60000 police encounters.

Black and Hispanic officers more likely to kill black and Hispanic people. White cops less likely to do do so.

Hardly anyone remembers similar cases of similar police brutality/killings against white suspects. And apparently there are many similar cases (he cites various cases including killing of a white guy Tony Tempa (not sure of spelling because like many I never heard of him)).

Then he talks about how 25% of arrests are of black people, 50% of arrests are of white.

And people might say that's outrageous, since blacks are only 13% of the population.

But here's the punchline. They account for 50% of murders. So this puts things in context. It's a context that is badly missing from the debate.

He also talks about how most black murders are black on black (the vast majority IIRC) not white on black.

I would encourage people to fact-check this stuff (not least because I'd like to know the honest context to all this).

This is the story that's not sexy to media apparently. Not as sexy as the story that appeals to the woke brigade.

And Harris doesn't like Trump. He wants him gone in November. So his podcast is far from a dog whistle to the latent racists out there. He's a rational, levelheaded guy that doesn't peddle in lowest common denominator feelings

Christy42

take everything wrote: »

Listened to that there.
People should listen to it.
He cuts through the woke celebrity/media offence-taking and priority of feelings over facts which does nothing but obscure what's really happening.

A few things he lays out facts and acknowledges that they will be at odd with these feelings and unpopular.

IIRC they are:

1000 people killed by cops in the US every year. Most of those not unarmed.

Translating to 1 in 10000 of police arrests and 1 in 60000 police encounters.

Black and Hispanic officers more likely to kill black and Hispanic people. White cops less likely to do do so.

Hardly anyone remembers similar cases of similar police brutality/killings against white suspects. And apparently there are many similar cases (he cites various cases including killing of a white guy Tony Tempa (not sure of spelling because like many I never heard of him)).

Then he talks about how 25% of arrests are of black people, 50% of arrests are of white.

And people might say that's outrageous, since blacks are only 13% of the population.

But here's the punchline. They account for 50% of murders. So this puts things in context. It's a context that is badly missing from the debate.

He also talks about how most black murders are black on black (the vast majority IIRC) not white on black.

I would encourage people to fact-check this stuff (not least because I'd like to know the honest context to all this).

This is the story that's not sexy to media apparently. Not as sexy as the story that appeals to the woke brigade.

And Harris doesn't like Trump. He wants him gone in November. So his podcast is far from a dog whistle to the latent racists out there. He's a rational, levelheaded guy that doesn't peddle in lowest common denominator feelings

This is ridiculous whataboutery.

Do we have a % of murders the police are allowed reach before people can complain about police brutality?

Tell me how much police brutality a country should accept before being allowed to complain about it. Well why didn't he previously raise the police killing white people as an issue? I mean what they kill some white people so it is cool they kill black people? Really the appropriate response would be to add those names to signs and join the protest. This seems to help the protestors case

I would presume Hispanic on Hispanic crime is their biggest, and white on white crime. Cos hey people don't bus crazy amounts of distance for petty crime and they tend to live in the same communities as each other.

JJayoo

I wonder what topic everyone will pretend to care about next month?

take everything

Christy42 wrote: »

This is ridiculous whataboutery.

Do we have a % of murders the police are allowed reach before people can complain about police brutality?

Tell me how much police brutality a country should accept before being allowed to complain about it. Well why didn't he previously raise the police killing white people as an issue? I mean what they kill some white people so it is cool they kill black people? Really the appropriate response would be to add those names to signs and join the protest. This seems to help the protestors case

I would presume Hispanic on Hispanic crime is their biggest, and white on white crime. Cos hey people don't bus crazy amounts of distance for petty crime and they tend to live in the same communities as each other.

You've missed a whole heap of points there.
And a lot of your post is quite difficult to decipher. "Bus crazy amounts of distance..": Can you explain what this means for example.

Harris's points are that police killings are a small proportion of overall arrests, that it's a difficult job at the best of times with many officers not receiving adequate training and mistakes are made.

That killing of white people does not lead to the same social upheaval/riots/destruction that deaths of black people do.

That crime is disproportionately high in the black community and that together with poorly trained officers/mistakes(and yes some racism) inevitably leads to poor outcomes.

But riots/social upheaval only happen when a black person is killed because things are always viewed through the lens of racism.
And inevitably stoked by a willing media.

Even though more blacks/Hispanics are killed by Blacks /Hispanic officers for example not white officers.

Chalk McHugh

take everything wrote: »

Listened to that there.
People should listen to it.
He cuts through the woke celebrity/media offence-taking and priority of feelings over facts which does nothing but obscure what's really happening.

A few things he lays out facts and acknowledges that they will be at odd with these feelings and unpopular.

IIRC they are:

1000 people killed by cops in the US every year. Most of those not unarmed.

Translating to 1 in 10000 of police arrests and 1 in 60000 police encounters.

Black and Hispanic officers more likely to kill black and Hispanic people. White cops less likely to do do so.

Hardly anyone remembers similar cases of similar police brutality/killings against white suspects. And apparently there are many similar cases (he cites various cases including killing of a white guy Tony Tempa (not sure of spelling because like many I never heard of him)).

Then he talks about how 25% of arrests are of black people, 50% of arrests are of white.

And people might say that's outrageous, since blacks are only 13% of the population.

But here's the punchline. They account for 50% of murders. So this puts things in context. It's a context that is badly missing from the debate.

He also talks about how most black murders are black on black (the vast majority IIRC) not white on black.

I would encourage people to fact-check this stuff (not least because I'd like to know the honest context to all this).

This is the story that's not sexy to media apparently. Not as sexy as the story that appeals to the woke brigade.

And Harris doesn't like Trump. He wants him gone in November. So his podcast is far from a dog whistle to the latent racists out there. He's a rational, levelheaded guy that doesn't peddle in lowest common denominator feelings

He said 95% of blacks are killed by other blacks. He also said that while the 12 days of violence and rioting were taking place after Floyds killing Chicago saw 25 murders in a few days the highest in over 60 years in that city and it was black on black murders and the media gave it little or no coverage. I wonder why? A good podcast full of facts which go against the narrative of all cops being racist thats being spouted out by so many idiots lately.

walshb

JJayoo wrote: »

I wonder what topic everyone will pretend to care about next month?

This pretty much sums up the world!!!

JJayoo

Hey will you ever fcuk off with your facts and logic, we need to get trump out, we tried gender/metoo/climate but race is the golden ticket.

Justin Credible Darts

JJayoo wrote: »

I wonder what topic everyone will pretend to care about next month?

Last month everyone was a doctor that was an expert in viruses.
This month the same people are experts in civil liberties.
Not sure what they will be next month, but you can bet they will be experts on the american electoral process the month after next.


We all can have opinions on everything, sadly too many people who think they are experts love trying to shut people down, and bandy about names and labels when someone has a different opinion.

walshb

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Last month everyone was a doctor that was an expert in viruses.
This month the same people are experts in civil liberties.
Not sure what they will be next month, but you can bet they will be experts on the american electoral process the month after next.


We all can have opinions on everything, sadly too many people who think they are experts love trying to shut people down, and bandy about names and labels when someone has a different opinion.

Mark Zuckerberg has a lot to answer for!!!😅

mynamejeff

walshb wrote: »

Mark Zuckerberg has a lot to answer for!!!😅

he didn't create a generation of idiots he is just taking advantage of it ,just like a lot of the media

joe40

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

He said 95% of blacks are killed by other blacks. He also said that while the 12 days of violence and rioting were taking place after Floyds killing Chicago saw 25 murders in a few days the highest in over 60 years in that city and it was black on black murders and the media gave it little or no coverage. I wonder why? A good podcast full of facts which go against the narrative of all cops being racist thats being spouted out by so many idiots lately.

So more black people are killed by criminals than by the police.

What does that have to do with unjustified police killings.

xtal191

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1271126434296352774

ExMachina1000

xtal191 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1271126434296352774

Does boards.ie have any non white mods

THE_SHEEP

JJayoo wrote: »

Hey will you ever fcuk off with your facts and logic, we need to get trump out, we tried gender/metoo/climate but race is the golden ticket.

Best post on this thread . Describes what is " REALLY " going on .

joe40

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Last month everyone was a doctor that was an expert in viruses.
This month the same people are experts in civil liberties.
Not sure what they will be next month, but you can bet they will be experts on the american electoral process the month after next.


We all can have opinions on everything, sadly too many people who think they are experts love trying to shut people down, and bandy about names and labels when someone has a different opinion.

And do you not have opinions that you express robustly.

Can no one else have a contrary opinion.

Justin Credible Darts

dont forget they tried to indite him as well

Christy42

take everything wrote: »

You've missed a whole heap of points there.
And a lot of your post is quite difficult to decipher. "Bus crazy amounts of distance..": Can you explain what this means for example.

Harris's points are that police killings are a small proportion of overall arrests, that it's a difficult job at the best of times with many officers not receiving adequate training and mistakes are made.

That killing of white people does not lead to the same social upheaval/riots/destruction that deaths of black people do.

That crime is disproportionately high in the black community and that together with poorly trained officers/mistakes(and yes some racism) inevitably leads to poor outcomes.

But riots/social upheaval only happen when a black person is killed because things are always viewed through the lens of racism.
And inevitably stoked by a willing media.

Even though more blacks/Hispanics are killed by Blacks /Hispanic officers for example not white officers.

Then he should be kicking up a fuss when white people are murdered by the police? I mean that still seems to point to massive reform.

Everything you have written leads to the conclusion that the police system in the US needs massive massive reform. Why are they poorly trained? That is unacceptable in my view.

You seem to be coming to the same conclusions as the protestors really.

The bus to commit crime means people commit crimes in their own areas (largely) which will mean same race on same race crime will naturally be the most common due to there still being a separation of communities generally.

Justin Credible Darts

joe40 wrote: »

And do you not have opinions that you express robustly.

Can no one else have a contrary opinion.

of course, we can all have different opinions........ however I have been told outright I was wrong as if others opinions were actual facts.

I was personally insulted, and some tried to skirt around the issue that people were racist on here , and done in a devious way



I was called a supporter of the orange order, and other things because my opinion did not suit those who were trying to shut people down.


Can you grasp my point now ? So dont tell me some people are not trying to shut others down

Tell me how

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

of course, we can all have different opinions........ however I have been told outright I was wrong as if others opinions were actual facts.

I was personally insulted, and some tried to skirt around the issue that people were racist on here , and done in a devious way



I was called a supporter of the orange order, and other things because my opinion did not suit those who were trying to shut people down.


Can you grasp my point now ? So dont tell me some people are not trying to shut others down

You were asked for facts yesterday to support your opinions and you refused to offer any while I offered links to the information which helped me inform my opinion as well as offering evidence of the protests which I have observed.

But you just adamantly stuck to your position that because you are entitled to an opinion, that opinion is of equal value to one supported with evidence.

joe40

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

of course, we can all have different opinions........ however I have been told outright I was wrong as if others opinions were actual facts.

I was personally insulted, and some tried to skirt around the issue that people were racist on here , and done in a devious way









That comes from both sides as well, words like idiots were used a few posts back, and someone asked what will it be next week.



I was called a supporter of the orange order, and other things because my opinion did not suit those who were trying to shut people down.


Can you grasp my point now ? So dont tell me some people are not trying to shut others down

That comes from all sides. People have been labeled as idiots, lefty snowflakes, far left supporter, anti law and order.

Can you not see it comes from all sides.

Some people in this debate believe they are the only ones who understand the situation while people like me are just manipulated by the media. Do you not think that is insulting?

na1

joe40 wrote: »

So more black people are killed by criminals than by the police.

What does that have to do with unjustified police killings.

As far as I know there is no single evidence that:

-a man with 9 criminal records was arrested because of his race
-a man died as a result of police brutality

but internet experts know everything with a crystal ball.