George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

walshb

joe40 wrote: »

So Drogheda people to blame for the feuding there. Ridiculous.
Communities are not to blame for crime.

You are not getting it.

Criminals in crime ridden areas have support...and a lot of it..

Not everyone in the community is to blame...

But there is more than just the actual law breakers involved here...

I have been in many crime ridden areas in my years, and have seen it first hand..

Running battles with cops that come to investigate a crime and come to help people. Gangs turning on them. And not just teens. Grown men and women..

Who else is to blame for the crime? The people committing it, and those aiding and abetting and ignoring g and covering and lying etc...

Communities are people. People commit crime. And many do so with help from members of the community...so who else is to blame?

Justin Credible Darts

joe40 wrote: »

So Drogheda people to blame for the feuding there. Ridiculous.
Communities are not to blame for crime.

so people from drogheda are like blacks ?


did not know people from drogheda were a different race who suffered racism.




your argument makes no sense.
How can you equate black on black crime to the drogheda feud.

Tell me how

walshb wrote: »

You are not getting it.

Criminals in crime ridden areas have support...and a lot of it..

Not everyone in the community is to blame...

But there is more than just the actual law breakers involved here...

I have been in many crime ridden areas in my years, and have seen it first hand..

Running battles with cops that come to investigate a crime and come to help people. Gangs turning on them. And not just teens. Grown men and women..

Who else is to blame for the crime? The people committing it, and those aiding and abetting and ignoring g and covering and lying etc...

Communities are people. People commit crime. And many do so with help from members of the community...so who else is to blame?

You are showing how the situation with cops who behave as Chauvin did is bigger than it just being his fault.

That's why people are protesting.

Do you now get it?

Chalk McHugh

Tell me how wrote: »

Just what percentage of all those who protest are committing acts of violence? In your opinion, what is it?

I dont agree with anything you say so it would be a waste of time engaging with you.

walshb

Tell me how wrote: »

You are showing how the situation with cops who behave as Chauvin did is bigger than it just being his fault.

That's why people are protesting.

Do you now get it?

No idea what you are on about here..

walshb

Tell me how wrote: »

You are showing how the situation with cops who behave as Chauvin did is bigger than it just being his fault.

That's why people are protesting.

Do you now get it?

Ok. I get you. Yes, I agree...

If there are bad apples in organisations that remain there, then it is because they have support..

Justin Credible Darts

walshb wrote: »

No idea what you are on about here..

some people wont be happy until everyone on here is brainwashed in to thinking that whitey is always at fault
All cops are somehow racist and it systemic through and through.


You must ignore facts that most black people are killed by black people.
You must ignore the cops have killed more white people than black



Failure to agree with these members who want to jump down the throatof anyone having an opinion that differs must mean you are on what has been called "the otherside".


Dont forget everyone must be one group or the other, you cannot be independently minded, form any opinions of your own, and if you respect the police you must be therefore a racist or a trump supporter.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

what has your reply got to do with my question of what has all this achieved ?


Do you deliberately choose to ignore things like questions and interpret things in your own way.

Maybe because that's a blatantly stupid question. George Floyd was killed about 3 weeks ago and it's sparked a WORLDWIDE MOVEMENT. It's not status quo, carrying on as normal after another shocking and senseless death at the hands of police. My former company in the US was directly involved with seeking change with the local city PD and we had various racial justice activists to speak and hold community events so I'm very much aware of how difficult change is because of loopholes in the law. That are basically set in stone. People have been pushing for change and suffering under this institutionalised violence for more than 400 years and you're already scoffing and demanding to know what's been achieved in a mere 3 weeks? That is beyond ridiculous. However I will say that the past 3 weeks have achieved what has already been impossible for decades/hundreds of years: Minneapolis committed to dismantling its police and other states and cities are following suit, New York City vowed to reform the NYPD and statues were toppled across the country. Schools are also removing the presence of armed officers and many businesses and cities are reviewing their contracts with their PD's.
I guess I should be glad to see that the progress made isn't quick enough for you!

Danzy

joe40 wrote: »

So Drogheda people to blame for the feuding there. Ridiculous.
Communities are not to blame for crime.

If Drogheda had a murder rate that was only seen in countries on the verge of civil war, then yes.

I get your point but the scale of the crisis is so big that it needs a cultural shift in the community.


85 people were shot in Chicago last weekend, 27 dead, nearly every one of them African American.

Chicago has a black population of about 650k, about the size of Munster, just imagine if that many were shot in Munster and regularly so, though rising and falling.

The army would have to be on the street, it would be a death rate per capita much higher than the peak of the war in the north in the 70s.

This is not a small issue, criminality in African American communities is the greatest challenge they face, probably bigger than the rest combined. We are not looking at other serious crimes.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

some people wont be happy until everyone on here is brainwashed in to thinking that whitey is always at fault
All cops are somehow racist and it systemic through and through.


You must ignore facts that most black people are killed by black people.
You must ignore the cops have killed more white people than black



Failure to agree with these members who want to jump down the throatof anyone having an opinion that differs must mean you are on what has been called "the otherside".


Dont forget everyone must be one group or the other, you cannot be independently minded, form any opinions of your own, and if you respect the police you must be therefore a racist or a trump supporter.

Those aren't opposing opinions, they're red herrings. Unrelated information you're pulling in to try to make a point where you don't have one. It's called mudslinging; attempting to muddy the waters of the issue.

joe40

walshb wrote: »

You are not getting it.

Criminals in crime ridden areas have support...and a lot of it..

Not everyone in the community is to blame...

But there is more than just the actual law breakers involved here...

I have been in many crime ridden areas in my years, and have seen it first hand..

Running battles with cops that come to investigate a crime and come to help people. Gangs turning on them. And not just teens. Grown men and women..

Who else is to blame for the crime? The people committing it, and those aiding and abetting and ignoring g and covering and lying etc...

Communities are people. People commit crime. And many do so with help from members of the community...so who else is to blame?

I do understand that, but all this talk of black on black crime is shifting the blame for that crime onto the wider community.
Was Moyross the big estate in Limerick that had a lot of trouble recently. It would be very unfair to blame the wider community for that. The vast majority were not involved.

I know the antisocial behavior can escalate and the distrust of police can escalate but no one in Ireland said to the people of Moyross you must tackle this.

That's the point I'm making. Crime in black communities is complex. But it is a totally different issue from the BLM movement.

Regardless of your views on BLM it is very wrong to take crime into it.

Maybe there is a problem with racism in American police forces, maybe there isn't, arguments either way
but crime carried out by criminals is not the issue here.

It is an important issue, but there is no need to use it as some kind of rebuttal to BLM

Chalk McHugh

Go right ahead and defund or even dismantle the police in all these cities. Lets see how that works. Lets see the Bronx , Harlem and Brooklynn with no cops. Detroit, Baltimore and South Central LA. Lets just get rid of the cops because its such an evil organisation and let these cities come out from their police repression and thrive and bloom as new crime free, safe havens where everything is milk and honey. What a good, progressive idea. Should been done decades ago. Get rid of the courts and prisons while ypur at it in this new utopia of happiness and virtue. Genius idea. Go right ahead.

Justin Credible Darts

Stateofyou wrote: »

Maybe because that's a blatantly stupid question. George Floyd was killed about 3 weeks ago and it's sparked a WORLDWIDE MOVEMENT. It's not status quo, carrying on as normal after another shocking and senseless death at the hands of police. My former company in the US was directly involved with seeking change with the local city PD and we had various racial justice activists to speak and hold community events so I'm very much aware of how difficult change is because of loopholes in the law. That are basically set in stone. People have been pushing for change and suffering under this institutionalised violence for more than 400 years and you're already scoffing and demanding to know what's been achieved in a mere 3 weeks? That is beyond ridiculous. However I will say that the past 3 weeks have achieved what has already been impossible for decades/hundreds of years: Minneapolis committed to dismantling its police and other states and cities are following suit, New York City vowed to reform the NYPD and statues were toppled across the country. Schools are also removing the presence of armed officers and many businesses and cities are reviewing their contracts with their PD's.
I guess I should be glad to see that the progress made isn't quick enough for you!

I will ask you, what has been achieved in the last 2 weeks ?
Has each passing day made the world a better place or has the situation got worse ?



If you or others want to defend rioting, violent protests, blame the police for everything, or whatever you believe in , then go ahead, knock yourself out.
But in my opinion, things are worse now than they were 2 weeks ago, not better, and no amount of long winded essays will change that.

Stateofyou

Danzy wrote: »

If Drogheda had a murder rate that was only seen in countries on the verge of civil war, then yes.

I get your point but the scale of the crisis is so big that it needs a cultural shift in the community.


85 people were shot in Chicago last weekend, 27 dead, nearly every one of them African American.

Chicago has a black population of about 650k, about the size of Munster, just imagine if that many were shot in Munster and regularly so, though rising and falling.

The army would have to be on the street, it would be a death rate per capita much higher than the peak of the war in the north in the 70s.

This is not a small issue, criminality in African American communities is the greatest challenge they face, probably bigger than the rest combined. We are not looking at other serious crimes.

Crime rates only point to the solid research and recommendations that have been made that takes into account the historical systemic racism in that country, and the positive effects that would be made in defunding (aka, massively reducing funding) police departments which will demilitarise their communities and instead funnel the money and resources into proper and appropriate community supports. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.

400 years of history which saw slavery, Jim Crow, the "war on drugs," segregation, gentrification, housing and employment discrimination, disenfranchisement, discriminatory policing, police brutality, etc etc have taken a huge toll on the African American people (not forgetting indigenous too). It is going to take a lot of time, rebuilding, and healing to be able to see the positive effects from efforts to tackle the systemic racism.

Justin Credible Darts

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Go right ahead and defund or even dismantle the police in all these cities. Lets see how that works. Lets see the Bronx , Harlem and Brooklynn with no cops. Detroit, Baltimore and South Central LA. Lets just get rid of the cops because its such an evil organisation and let these cities come out from their police repression and thrive and bloom as new crime free, safe havens where everything is milk and honey. What a good, progressive idea. Should been done decades ago. Get rid of the courts and prisons while ypur at it in this new utopia of happiness and virtue. Genius idea. Go right ahead.

dont forget we must arm everyone too, something about their right in the constitution.


And if someone who does not have a gun gets shot....no one cares...unless of course the victim was shot by a white person and only then it will matter.


Keep up

joe40

Danzy wrote: »

If Drogheda had a murder rate that was only seen in countries on the verge of civil war, then yes.

I get your point but the scale of the crisis is so big that it needs a cultural shift in the community.


85 people were shot in Chicago last weekend, 27 dead, nearly every one of them African American.

Chicago has a black population of about 650k, about the size of Munster, just imagine if that many were shot in Munster and regularly so, though rising and falling.

The army would have to be on the street, it would be a death rate per capita much higher than the peak of the war in the north in the 70s.

This is not a small issue, criminality in African American communities is the greatest challenge they face, probably bigger than the rest combined. We are not looking at other serious crimes.

That's a good post and I take your point. But my issue is people using this as some sort of gotcha to discredit the BLM.

If there is systemic racism in the police black people have a right to protest, if it is not racism just police brutality then they still have a right to protest.

Crime in the black community is a separate issue. Serious issue without a doubt but separate.

It is just a cynical attempt to undermine BLM.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I will ask you, what has been achieved in the last 2 weeks ?
Has each passing day made the world a better place or has the situation got worse ?



If you or others want to defend rioting, violent protests, blame the police for everything, or whatever you believe in , then go ahead, knock yourself out.
But in my opinion, things are worse now than they were 2 weeks ago, not better, and no amount of long winded essays will change that.

I just typed an answer out to that question. Stop asking the same question over and over again when for one, the information is easily found online, and 2, it's already been provided to you. I would say yes, the world is becoming a better place. A h@ll of a lot of people have and are waking up to the issues of racism and are doing something about it. But if, in your opinion, things are getting worse - what are you doing about it besides moaning on boards?

Deebles McBeebles

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

so to all these people who find no fault with the protests, who seem to be quiet when it comes to black on black crime etc.

What have they actually achieved ?

Quite a bit for the time period. More than if they just shut up, as you seem to want them to do.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

It appears to me people are more annoyed now than they were when the guy floyd was killed,
Racism has not disappeared, in fact i would think because of all the antics by certain members of this BLM, which even some black people have spoken out against, some people who may have held opinions on neither side might be pushed more to one extreme or the other.

You know his name, its in the thread title. Of course racism has not disappeared, did you really think it would only take 3 weeks?

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

some people wont be happy until everyone on here is brainwashed in to thinking that whitey is always at fault
All cops are somehow racist and it systemic through and through.


You must ignore facts that most black people are killed by black people.
You must ignore the cops have killed more white people than black


Failure to agree with these members who want to jump down the throatof anyone having an opinion that differs must mean you are on what has been called "the otherside".


Dont forget everyone must be one group or the other, you cannot be independently minded, form any opinions of your own, and if you respect the police you must be therefore a racist or a trump supporter.

Where has anyone said any of this? You wouldn't just be throwing this scutter in here to deflect would you? For someone who posts so much you have surprisingly little of relevance to say.

Justin Credible Darts

joe40 wrote: »

Maybe there is a problem with racism in American police forces, maybe there isn't, arguments either way
but crime carried out by criminals is not the issue here.

I doubt anyone will disagree with you that is without doubt some racist officers, and some even at a higher level in the force.


The issue is a lot on people on here have is that they do not think the issue is systemic.

Stateofyou

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Go right ahead and defund or even dismantle the police in all these cities. Lets see how that works. Lets see the Bronx , Harlem and Brooklynn with no cops. Detroit, Baltimore and South Central LA. Lets just get rid of the cops because its such an evil organisation and let these cities come out from their police repression and thrive and bloom as new crime free, safe havens where everything is milk and honey. What a good, progressive idea. Should been done decades ago. Get rid of the courts and prisons while ypur at it in this new utopia of happiness and virtue. Genius idea. Go right ahead.

Yeah, you do need to see how that works. Talks around defunding and dismantling the police does not and has never equalled a push for no cops. The information about what the goal is for police reform is EVERYWHERE online. You are mocking and dismissing a movement that you don't even have any knowledge about what it actually means. Well done. Genius.

Justin Credible Darts

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Quite a bit for the time period. More than if they just shut up, as you seem to want them to do.



You know his name, its in the thread title. Of course racism has not disappeared, did you really think it would only take 3 weeks?



Where has anyone said any of this? You wouldn't just be throwing this scutter in here to deflect would you? For someone who posts so much you have surprisingly little of relevance to say.

of course it has not disappeared in 3 weeks
Guess what, it will still exist in 3 generations time sadly. Making something illegal will not make racism disappear.



The rioting now serves no purpose.....if I am wrong enlighten me what can be gained by violent protesting



Also, if you do not want to read my posts put me on ignore, or dont reply, its not a hard concept to grasp

Silentcorner

This may have been posted previously....but it's worth a watch, a woman who can think for herself....she lives in the neighbourhood the protesters are in...

She makes s##t of an "empowered one", a typical white woman who despite her best efforts couldn't shut her up or articulate any kind of credible position.....you know, the usual.

She makes a great point, when black men kill black men the cops can't get help because "snitches get stitches"...and no one cares.

As for the men who were attempting to shut her up by shouting "Shame on You" are truly pathetic.

Chalk McHugh

Stateofyou wrote: »

Yeah, you do need to see how that works. Talks around defunding and dismantling the police does not and has never equalled a push for no cops. The information about what the goal is for police reform is EVERYWHERE online. You are mocking and dismissing a movement that you don't even have any knowledge about what it actually means. Well done. Genius.

That is the message a lot of these thugs are putting out there. Theyd be happy if all cops died. Lets be real here. There is a disgusting hatred for all cops by all these rioters/shooters/looters. They would like nothing else but no police. So yea lets have it then. Lets see how these communities and cities cope with little or no cops. Great idea. The way things are going and the way the cops are being painted as 100% evil and racist and corrupt i can see a big shortage of men or woman.joining the force in future so these people will get their cop free utopia.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

of course it has not disappeared in 3 weeks
Guess what, it will still exist in 3 generations time sadly. Making something illegal will not make racism disappear.



The rioting now serves no purpose.....if I am wrong enlighten me what can be gained by violent protesting



Also, if you do not want to read my posts put me on ignore, or dont reply, its not a hard concept to grasp

Omg... it's like a gigantic circle jerk on this thread. It's already been discussed front to back... but the main problem here? People are unwilling and uncurious enough to look into this themselves. To educate your own self first and seek to understand. You could literally type into Google "why are there riots in the US after George Floyd was killed," you could follow racial justice accounts on social media, read some of the books on top of the best seller lists right now, etc to learn for yourself why, what has inflamed the peaceful protests (and that those peaceful demonstrations are ACTUALLY the majority of the protests) and why it's bs to focus more on riots than the actual violent systemic racism. To use your own words - educating yourself isn't a hard concept to grasp. If you wanted to.

Deebles McBeebles

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

of course it has not disappeared in 3 weeks
Guess what, it will still exist in 3 generations time sadly. Making something illegal will not make racism disappear.

Why did you think it should have disappeared in 3 weeks then? You said it.

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

The rioting now serves no purpose.....if I am wrong enlighten me what can be gained by violent protesting

The protests serve a purpose and are bringing about some small changes, hopefully leading to larger changes in time. Surely you get that they are protesting for a reason and that this is putting a spotlight on it?

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Also, if you do not want to read my posts put me on ignore, or dont reply, its not a hard concept to grasp

The reason this is happening across the world is not hard to grasp either but its still out of reach for some.

Silentcorner

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

That is the message a lot of these thugs are putting out there. Theyd be happy if all cops died. Lets be real here. There is a disgusting hatred for all cops by all these rioters/shooters/looters. They would like nothing else but no police. So yea lets have it then. Lets see how these communities and cities cope with little or no cops. Great idea. The way things are going and the way the cops are being painted as 100% evil and racist and corrupt i can see a big shortage of men or woman.joining the force in future so these people will get their cop free utopia.

Ah the laws of unintended consequences...the kryptonite of the modern left.

Stateofyou

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

That is the message a lot of these thugs are putting out there. Theyd be happy if all cops died. Lets be real here. There is a disgusting hatred for all cops by all these rioters/shooters/looters. They would like nothing else but no police. So yea lets have it then. Lets see how these communities and cities cope with little or no cops. Great idea. The way things are going and the way the cops are being painted as 100% evil and racist and corrupt i can see a big shortage of men or woman.joining the force in future so these people will get their cop free utopia.

You couldn't be more blatantly racist if you tried. Using the word thugs and putting words in their mouth as IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING or ANYONE in the US going through this right now on a personal level. From what point of authority can you even say anything like that.

I already pointed out that they do not say they want no police, or can't you read? Can you not look into this yourself, or google anything? No, you don't want to do that because you wouldn't be able to continue on in your hateful bias. Your words and attitude here says a lot about you. Why is racism so sustained? Ignorant attitudes like yours ignoring any information and possible education on any issue.

walshb

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

That is the message a lot of these thugs are putting out there. Theyd be happy if all cops died. Lets be real here. There is a disgusting hatred for all cops by all these rioters/shooters/looters. They would like nothing else but no police. So yea lets have it then. Lets see how these communities and cities cope with little or no cops. Great idea. The way things are going and the way the cops are being painted as 100% evil and racist and corrupt i can see a big shortage of men or woman.joining the force in future so these people will get their cop free utopia.

I have said it from the get go. These mobs are doing nothing but damaging the “cause,” and damaging society..

Just look at the reaction to the shooting on Friday?

Rather than address it, debate it and discuss/challenge, they go straight to mob violence and burn down an entire business.

Utter scum that react this way..but they have plenty of direct and indirect support. The more people keep turning on the police and skati g the cops at the slightest chance (because it’s the thing to do now), the more these mobs will be empowered to break down society.

2u2me

Silentcorner wrote: »

This may have been posted previously....but it's worth a watch, a woman who can think for herself....she lives in the neighbourhood the protesters are in...

Obviously it takes a foreigner coming to the country that hasn't suffered from indoctrination!

That's real bravery. Speaking truth to a mob.

"You are free to leave" what assholes those people are.

Overheal

2u2me wrote: »

That's not being demanded Overheal. That's a cultish group of about 1,000 people hardly a representation of what's happening.

1,000?

Dude it's one tweet of it. There are thousands of tweets exactly like the one linked to, and you're taking the Likes on 1 tweet as the barometer of how popular the idea is? Think critically please!