George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Its not my place to try convert racists, those people you cannot deal with.
I just make sure to be a decent law abiding citizen who has respect for the police and the law they uphold, and to be accepting of all people.


Me out in the street roaring and shouting in Ireland over something I cannot change in america is utterly pointless.


Why do you think you can lecture me on what I can do about the situation.
If you want to do something go ahead, its not your place to tell me how I should live my life

So you're saying you think allyship or confronting racism in your life and bias within yourself can only equate to roaring and shouting in the streets of Ireland? You do realise that racism is here too right, and that bias exists in everyone? If you're going to be critical and dismissive of other's efforts to bring about change in racist societies than yeah, I'm going to ask you what you're doing yourself.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

Blacks are 13% of the population and 25% of those killed by cops.

Whites are 72% of the population and 36% of those killed by cops.

Surely you see the problem.

Blacks are 13% of the population and commit 52% of the murders and the majority of violent crime.

Surely you can see the problem

AbusesToilets

Stateofyou wrote: »

C'mon.... this sh*t is so frustrating. The internet is literally FLOODED with information, memes, protest signs, videos, etc explaining why we specifically say Black lives matter. They never said all lives don't matter. Everyone knows all lives matter. But in the US especially and in places across the world, black lives are treated as if they don't matter. Police brutality and their racist "justice" system disproportionately affects black people. The BLM movement started because black lives, for hundreds of years, have been treated like they don't matter. So that's why there is a focus on that disparity and the effects of systemic racism.

Seems it's mostly blacks who are acting as tho black lives don't matter

Stateofyou

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Blacks are 13% of the population and commit 52% of the murders and the majority of violent crime.

Surely you can see the problem

Surely you can see the problem of 400 years of violent oppression and the effects of systemic racism in their society.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

How many of those groups are stopped and frisked etc?

How many of those groups are vilified on the evening news?

Spoiler alert: hate crimes against asians spiked as a result of "Wuhan Flu" coverage

Chicken and egg. The police wouldn't be stopping and frisking black men dressed in suits and carrying the FT on the way into an office building.

If the black man is dressed in Timberlake boots and baggy trousers and walks past the police staring at them then maybe it might attract attention and a stop and frisk.

The point is how is police attention driven by skin colour versus behaviour of certain groups. How do you separate those things and who is the ultimate judge on whether it is racism or not? It is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

AbusesToilets

Stateofyou wrote: »

Surely you can see the problem of 400 years of violent oppression and the effects of systemic racism in their society.

So they aren't accountable for their actions? Are they a community of infants, incapable of acting with agency and making decisions?

Justin Credible Darts

joe40 wrote: »

I'm not saying it doesn't but it is not up to impoverished black communities and community leaders to take that on as well.

.

true, however they do have a part to play in it.



I know of rough areas with high levels of crime and the community want more police on the beat, but instead we have people wanting to get rid of the police.
surely less police in those area would only make the situation worse

joe40

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Seems it's mostly blacks who are acting as tho black lives don't matter

Millions of blacks live out their lives without killing anyone.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

Surely you can see the problem of 400 years of violent oppression and the effects of systemic racism in their society.

Would 800 years of oppression and legacy of 'No blacks No Irish' signs be an excuse for Irish people to be disproportionately committing violent crime in the UK?

joe40

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

true, however they do have a part to play in it.



I know of rough areas with high levels of crime and the community want more police on the beat, but instead we have people wanting to get rid of the police.
surely less police in those area would only make the situation worse

That says more about the type of policing they get.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Seems it's mostly blacks who are acting as tho black lives don't matter

You think it clever but its true. Even among blacks, they believe their own stereotypes against themselves because they see it in the media like everyone else. There are blacks who grew up in the 90s and started to internalize the idea that they were the superpredators because that's what the tv told them they were. Even among black children they did implicit bias tests, where they wouldn't want the black doll because 'she's ugly' 'she's bad' etc. - positive representation is growing but the damage is done for most.

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

Millions of blacks live out their lives without killing anyone.

Millions of them don't experience racism either, when they are being honest. I have heard it many times from colleagues and friends.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Blacks are 13% of the population and commit 52% of the murders and the majority of violent crime.

Surely you can see the problem

I've already been back around the circle with you on that. In the last 2 hours.

Justin Credible Darts

Stateofyou wrote: »

So you're saying you think allyship or confronting racism in your life and bias within yourself can only equate to roaring and shouting in the streets of Ireland? You do realise that racism is here too right, and that bias exists in everyone? If you're going to be critical and dismissive of other's efforts to bring about change in racist societies than yeah, I'm going to ask you what you're doing yourself.

first off, its not place to dictate how others should live.Would I like to live in a world free of racism ? of course, but I am not naive.



Experience has thought me you cannot deal with racists rationally, I know, I have encountered racism due to being in what was once called a mixed race marriage, so get off your soapbox, I am all to aware of racism.
I know pretesting wont change these people.
Sadly those people are here to stay, and will exist long after you and I are well buried and dead.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would 800 years of oppression and legacy of 'No blacks No Irish' signs be an excuse for Irish people to be disproportionately committing violent crime in the UK?

Well in fairness we did do our fair bit of mischief for a few years there.

The racism Irish people faced in the UK over say the last 100 years is nothing like the black community faced in the US.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

Chicken and egg. The police wouldn't be stopping and frisking black men dressed in suits and carrying the FT on the way into an office building.

Okay so blacks can't wear the same things whites can? T-shirts and hoodies? You are all but saying racial profile is not only okay but encouraged.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

Millions of them don't experience racism either, when they are being honest. I have heard it many times from colleagues and friends.

I've heard quite differently from friends and colleagues here in the united states. I don't know how useful unverifiable anecdotes like these are.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

Would 800 years of oppression and legacy of 'No blacks No Irish' signs be an excuse for Irish people to be disproportionately committing violent crime in the UK?

Sure if the irish family unit was fatherless because they criminalized drinking you bet.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

Okay so blacks can't wear the same things whites can? T-shirts and hoodies? You are all but saying racial profile is not only okay but encouraged.

Do you think it's strange that the community committing the majority of crimes would see more active policing?

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Millions of them don't experience racism either, when they are being honest. I have heard it many times from colleagues and friends.

So why are so many out protesting. I'm not counting the opportunistic looters.

The normal people out taking part in peaceful protests. To actually get that number engaging means there are multiples feel the same way.

Justin Credible Darts

joe40 wrote: »

Well in fairness we did do our fair bit of mischief for a few years there.

The racism Irish people faced in the UK over say the last 100 years is nothing like the black community faced in the US.

How about the shoot to kill policy in the north on catholics, bloody sunday, guildford 4, birmingham 6 etc.


You dont see the average Irish person today using that as an excuse to commit acts of violence.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Okay so blacks can't wear the same things whites can? T-shirts and hoodies? You are all but saying racial profile is not only okay but encouraged.

I don't see what is so wrong with profiling.

A steroid fuelled bull of a man who stares provocatively at police is arguably more of a potential problem than a 60 year old female librarian.

Pretending everybody is equally likely to commit crimes is utopian naivety.

Danzy

joe40 wrote: »

Well in fairness we did do our fair bit of mischief for a few years there.

Are we calling a legitimate response to an occupying army a bit of mischief now?

****ing hell, the americanization of politics.

joe40

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

How about the shoot to kill policy in the north on catholics, bloody sunday, guildford 4, birmingham 6 etc.


You dont see the average Irish person today using that as an excuse to commit acts of violence.

Because the good Friday agreement of 1998brought an end to that conflict.
One of the outcomes was to disband the police, shock horror. Replace it with totally new police force with new methods of governance and accountability, and an independent policing authority

Parades commission to deal with flags emblems parades etc

A lot of positive changes took place.

Before that there was plenty of violence not all of it justified absolutely but without it there would have been no progress.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

first off, its not place to dictate how others should live.Would I like to live in a world free of racism ? of course, but I am not naive.



Experience has thought me you cannot deal with racists rationally, I know, I have encountered racism due to being in what was once called a mixed race marriage, so get off your soapbox, I am all to aware of racism.
I know pretesting wont change these people.
Sadly those people are here to stay, and will exist long after you and I are well buried and dead.

You've done a fair bit of dictating on here, but you've criticised protests asking what it has accomplished, and that was answered to you quite a few times. I am well aware that you can't deal rationally with racists, this thread proves that over and over again. Racism isn't just found under white hoods and from those who say the "N" word. It's found in racist "jokes" and all the smaller ways society upholds that status quo. That's why a big part of the movement now is about being "actively anti-racist." Otherwise you are complicit and siding with oppressors in a racist system, participating in or benefiting from that system which is affecting the lives of others. Essentially, looking the other way and staying silent and not caring about how it's impacting others. That is white privilege. You don't have to care because it doesn't impact you so you don't. You tell yourself protesting won't change things (yet clearly it does) but if you're honest you tell yourself you can't/won't do anything because it doesn't matter... to YOU. But if we all cared about each other a little more, all of us and within ourselves and our own little worlds, that is how things change. The apathy you display there is part of the problem.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Do you think it's strange that the community committing the majority of crimes would see more active policing?

'Sure seems like there are a lot more birds in that area I always go to watch the birds than those areas I never go to watch the birds'

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't see what is so wrong with profiling.

A steroid fuelled bull of a man who stares provocatively at police is arguably more of a potential problem than a 60 year old female librarian.

Pretending everybody is equally likely to commit crimes is utopian naivety.

LOL yeah most staff at my old job would have thought that too!

Turns out 3 perps were involved: a white man, a white woman, and a black man.

The black man would get the attention of security while her wan loaded up on electronics.

****, I have friends who admit to shoplifting because they know they won't be profiled on it because they are as white and blonde as all hell.

Justin Credible Darts

Stateofyou wrote: »

You've done a fair bit of dictating on here, but you've criticised protests asking what it has accomplished, and that was answered to you quite a few times. I am well aware that you can't deal rationally with racists, this thread proves that over and over again. Racism isn't just found under white hoods and from those who say the "N" word. It's found in racist "jokes" and all the smaller ways society upholds that status quo. That's why a big part of the movement now is about being "actively anti-racist." Otherwise you are complicit and siding with oppressors in a racist system, participating in or benefiting from that system which is affecting the lives of others. Essentially, looking the other way and staying silent and not caring about how it's impacting others. That is white privilege. You tell yourself protesting won't change things (yet clearly it does) but if you're honest you tell yourself you can't/won't do anything because it doesn't matter... to YOU. But if we all cared about each other a little more, all of us and within ourselves and our own little worlds, that is how things change. The apathy you display there is part of the problem.

what utter rubbish , how dare you claim I wont or cant do anything cos it does not matter to me.
Are you illiterate ?
I already stated I have encountered racism , what would you have me do ?


And the only protests I have complained about were violent protests, not peaceful ones, I suggest you actually read my posts.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

How about the shoot to kill policy in the north on catholics, bloody sunday, guildford 4, birmingham 6 etc.


You dont see the average Irish person today using that as an excuse to commit acts of violence.

Ok, and imagine if the English still oppressed us in every county in Ireland today and starved our people and their occupying police force brutalised us on a regular basis and was upheld by a systemically racist "justice system" and Irish people filled their private English jails here. The English are in control of almost the entire government and corporations so the laws and bias throughout every aspect of life negatively impacted you. You can't compare like for like until you level the example you're using.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

what utter rubbish , how dare you claim I wont or cant do anything cos it does not matter to me.
Are you illiterate ?
I already stated I have encountered racism , what would you have me do ?


And the only protests I have complained about were violent protests, not peaceful ones, I suggest you actually read my posts.

That's rich to accuse me of illiteracy, when you've literally ignored the answered questions to your posts only to ask them over and over again. Because you don't want to acknowledge what's being said. What does "encountering racism" have to do with doing anything about it? Your response to that question asked to you a couple times now was basically - racism exists, I'm not going to scream and roar in the streets of Ireland and will still be here long after you and I are buried..." You said that. I'm not illiterate, you're aggressively defensive and ignoring answers. You're ignoring ideas and information already posted here about what things can be done to take an active role in anti-racism. I'll list a few for you here again if that helps.

-Call out your friends and family when they say racist/predjudiced things. Don't let it happen anymore and stay silent.
-Watch the 13th, or other films/documentaries to get a better understanding such as Selma, The Hate U Give, When They See Us, Dear White People...
-Read a book from one of the top best sellers at the moment such as How To Be An Anti Racist, Me and White Supremacy, I know Why the Caged Bird Sings, Heavy...
-Do you have kids? Talk to them about race and racism. If you're on Instagram or have access to the internet, follow the Conscious Kid or Patreon.com to start getting ideas and support on how to have those conversations.
-Sign petitions
-Repost and amplify black voices and their experiences. Listen to their stories.

Just a handful of ideas.