George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

2u2me

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

Culture is just a term for group behaviour, which has its foundation in genetics, so genetics is still the issue.

I think it's the other way around, genetics has a foundation in culture; like when we developed the ability to drink milk through dairy cultivation. People in hot countries developed darker skin to deal with the sun's radiation. People everywhere else largely lost that moving to cooler, darker climates.

I was talking about the culture of victim-hood, which I don't think has anything to do with genetics.

joe40

2u2me wrote: »

I think it's the other way around, genetics has a foundation in culture; like when we developed the ability to drink milk through dairy cultivation. People in hot countries developed darker skin to deal with the sun's radiation. People everywhere else largely lost that moving to cooler, darker climates.

I was talking about the culture of victim-hood, which I don't think has anything to do with genetics.

That's not how genetics work. Random mutations confer an advantage, which is preferentially passed on to subsequent generations.
Genes don't just change because we do something.

Cultures can change quickly genes don't.

Genetically all humans are identical. Obviously variation between individuals but we're all the same genes.
Race is largely a misnomer, humans are all the same race.

2u2me

joe40 wrote: »

That's not how genetics work. Random mutations confer an advantage, which is preferentially passed on to subsequent generations.
Genes don't just change because we do something.

Cultures can change quickly genes don't.

Genetically all humans are identical. Obviously variation between individuals but we're all the same genes.
Race is largely a misnomer, humans are all the same race.

How is anything you've just said in disagreement with anything that I've said? Seems like you're arguing for the heck of it. I don't know exactly what you're arguing though.

JJayoo

Chatting to a girl I know in Texas she told me that it takes longer to train to be a beautician than it does to become a cop. Now this is in Texas so perhaps it's different in different states but that is ridiculous.

Defund the cops.....more.money to provide better training.

shaveAbullock

JJayoo wrote: »

Chatting to a girl I know in Texas she told me that it takes longer to train to be a beautician than it does to become a cop. Now this is in Texas so perhaps it's different in different states but that is ridiculous.

32 weeks of training at an academy and 1280 hours of instruction in Austin, Texas.

Which is fairly similar to Garda training
34 weeks at Templemore and 34 weeks working alongside a more experienced member.

Of course the quality of training would be the most important factor.

2u2me

Stateofyou wrote: »

Have you watched 13th yet? It's on Netflix and shines some light on your post here. Police unions, private prisons, racist laws (war on drugs) etc need huge attention and reform.

I honestly tried. It just seems far too politically charged without proper attention for balance. I got as far as 15:30 when they said that Nixon's "War on drugs" was actually a "war on race" dogwhistle and I just couldn't watch anymore.

To their credit they made it available on youtube for free.

I'd agree all of those need reform(except for the racist law part).

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Black men are more likely to be involved in violent crime than non black men. 13 percent......52 per cent.....yada yada.....

Similarly men are more likely to get into bad car accidents than women.

These things are statistical averages and do not say anything about individuals who should be judged on the content of their character.

It’s hard to judge that content when it’s dead. Hence the need to bring in everyone alive, and never stop striving for excellence in that objective.

Overheal

2u2me wrote: »

I honestly tried. It just seems far too politically charged without proper attention for balance. I got as far as 15:30 when they said that Nixon's "War on drugs" was actually a "war on race" dogwhistle and I just couldn't watch anymore.

To their credit they made it available on youtube for free.

I'd agree all of those need reform(except for the racist law part).

Because it literally was and this revelation is kind of a big ****ing deal in US politics if you’ve ever followed along:

https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/

“You want to know what this was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

- John Ehrlichman, senior advisor to Nixon

Manic Moran

shaveAbullock wrote: »

32 weeks of training at an academy and 1280 hours of instruction in Austin, Texas.

Which is fairly similar to Garda training
34 weeks at Templemore and 34 weeks working alongside a more experienced member.

Of course the quality of training would be the most important factor.

It seems that one can get away with 18 weeks, Mon-Fri 0700-1700, for a total of 728 hours, assuming that you can find a department willing to take you on. Basic Police Officer #1001 is so called because it's the basic. It'll qualify you, but most departments will send you onto follow-on courses or probations. The highest level of cosmetology license ("operator") can be attained in 1,000 hours. Lesser courses like "manicurist" are obviously shorter.

That said, that's Basic. Texas DPS is 23 weeks, but it's more like "24x7/boot camp", The graduation rate has been as low as 20%, but 70-80% is more typical.

The instruction in my city is 32 weeks, with three months under supervision, then a year's probation before becoming fully-fledged police. This is quite an in-depth article on the training for SAPD, 85% pass rate.
https://www.expressnews.com/32-weeks-the-making-of-a-cop-chapter-one/

Favourite training technique: The Academy buys friends and families of the cadets alcoholic drink of varying amounts. Then the cadets get to do field sobriety testing on them.

Money line for the current thread:
"For every example of an officer using too much force, there is another example of the officer who waited too long." Videos of both are easily found online.

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

It seems that one can get away with 18 weeks, Mon-Fri 0700-1700, for a total of 728 hours, assuming that you can find a department willing to take you on. Basic Police Officer #1001 is so called because it's the basic. It'll qualify you, but most departments will send you onto follow-on courses or probations. The highest level of cosmetology license ("operator") can be attained in 1,000 hours. Lesser courses like "manicurist" are obviously shorter.

That said, that's Basic. Texas DPS is 23 weeks, but it's more like "24x7/boot camp", The graduation rate has been as low as 20%, but 70-80% is more typical.

The instruction in my city is 32 weeks, with three months under supervision, then a year's probation before becoming fully-fledged police. This is quite an in-depth article on the training for SAPD, 85% pass rate.
https://www.expressnews.com/32-weeks-the-making-of-a-cop-chapter-one/

Favourite training technique: The Academy buys friends and families of the cadets alcoholic drink of varying amounts. Then the cadets get to do field sobriety testing on them.

Money line for the current thread:
"For every example of an officer using too much force, there is another example of the officer who waited too long." Videos of both are easily found online.

I don't know if it is the training, the recruitment or both but it is obvious to the rest of the world that something is not working.

They have turned a massive proportion of the community against them. Atlanta has seen 6 officers fired (at least, I didn't keep track of the latest shooting). I am not sure how many lies have been put out about the old man in buffalo at this point, some from people on high. Tear gas used on peaceful protestors. I am not sure how many complaints from reporters from a wide variety of news agencies.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

It’s hard to judge that content when it’s dead. Hence the need to bring in everyone alive, and never stop striving for excellence in that objective.

I would say the police would bring in everyone alive if they could.

The use of force is largely a function of
A) the extent to which the suspect is resisting
the level of aggression of the crowd of bystanders and the likelihood of them getting involved

begbysback

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

Culture is just a term for group behaviour, which has its foundation in genetics, so genetics is still the issue.

And “group behavior” is learned by the individual from the group, therefore genetics are irrelevant, as anyone with any gene can learn the behavior from the group.

joe40

2u2me wrote: »

How is anything you've just said in disagreement with anything that I've said? Seems like you're arguing for the heck of it. I don't know exactly what you're arguing though.

Fair enough, it was late I misread your post, I apologise for that.

perfectkama

man u gotta take a rest read a book go for a walk

Jmsg

There's a simple word which completely dispels the delusion of "systemic racism", that is: Asians. Whites are not the most economically successful and socially mobile group in the united states, East Asians are. If discrimination based on markers of genetic dissimilarity favoring the majority group of those of European descent on all levels of the dynamic systems of exchanges that comprises the whole of the society i.e. "systematic racism" were the case, there is no reason for it not to be working equally against all non-white races which it clearly isn't.

ohnonotgmail

Jmsg wrote: »

There's a simple word which completely dispels the delusion of "systemic racism", that is: Asians. Whites are not the most economically successful and socially mobile group in the united states, East Asians are. If discrimination based on markers of genetic dissimilarity favoring the majority group of those of European descent on all levels of the dynamic systems of exchanges that comprises the whole of the society i.e. "systematic racism" were the case, there is no reason for it not to be working equally against all non-white races which it clearly isn't.

there are differences between asians and black people that you seem to overlook. can you guess what they are from an american perspective?

Jmsg

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there are differences between asians and black people that you seem to overlook. can you guess what they are from an american perspective?

Intact families in which the parents invest heavily in the children would be a big one. How is this not being a African Americans trait related to their being oppressed in an ongoing sense?

ohnonotgmail

Jmsg wrote: »

Intact families in which the parents invest heavily in the children would be a big one. How is this not being a African Americans trait related to their being oppressed in an ongoing sense?

perhaps read a little bit of history. black people were second class citizens in the US in living memory. that attitude has not gone away.

Jmsg

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

perhaps read a little bit of history. black people were second class citizens in the US in living memory. that attitude has not gone away.

I understand that. Legitimate historical oppression has rendered them in a bad condition (compared to Asians being recently hand selected as immigrants) but that's separate from whether that oppression is still ongoing which there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence that it is. Based on things like affirmative action it would seem there has been a 180 degree turn.

Dyr

Jmsg wrote: »

There's a simple word which completely dispels the delusion of "systemic racism", that is: Asians. Whites are not the most economically successful and socially mobile group in the united states, East Asians are. If discrimination based on markers of genetic dissimilarity favoring the majority group of those of European descent on all levels of the dynamic systems of exchanges that comprises the whole of the society i.e. "systematic racism" were the case, there is no reason for it not to be working equally against all non-white races which it clearly isn't.

Asians have no loyalty to their fellow minorities in that regard, they're basically little better than Whitey. :mad:

If they knew what was good for them they'd be opressed like minorities ought to be

And dont get me started on Nigerians and their achievements in the US

ohnonotgmail

Jmsg wrote: »

I understand that. Legitimate historical oppression has rendered them in a bad condition (compared to Asians being recently hand selected as immigrants) but that's separate from whether that oppression is still ongoing which there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence that it is. Based on things like affirmative action it would seem there has been a 180 degree turn.

are you seriously asking if racism is still ongoing?

Jmsg

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are you seriously asking if racism is still ongoing?

I don't think racism can ever truly stop because in-group preference is a hard wired feature of human biology. It seems in an attempt to fulfill the impossible protocol of ridding themselves of it, Americans and westerners in general have actually gone the other direction of over-compensating and actually taking the position of out-groups in favor of their own. Affirmative action, "taking the knee" etc. seem to be clear evidence of this.

joe40

Jmsg wrote: »

I don't think racism can ever truly stop because in-group preference is a hard wired feature of human biology. It seems in an attempt to fulfill the impossible protocol of ridding themselves of it, Americans and westerners in general have actually gone the other direction of over-compensating and actually taking the position of out-groups in favor of their own. Affirmative action, "taking the knee" etc. seem to be clear evidence of this.

Taking the Knee was first done by Kapernick during the Anthem.

I think whites doing it is a sign of solidarity, not of deference.
I know there have been things such as kissing boots and such like which is obviously ridiculous.

I'm not sure what you mean by affirmative action.

Justin Credible Darts

AbusesToilets wrote: »

So what is false?

That black people commit over 50% of murders and the majority of violent crime, despite being 13% of the population. Over 90% against other black people.

That more white people are killed by police than Black people.

That black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to kill blacks than white officers.

Which of those would be false?

not a peep from him since you posted that.....

2u2me

Overheal wrote: »

Because it literally was and this revelation is kind of a big ****ing deal in US politics if you’ve ever followed along:

“You want to know what this was really all about? The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

- John Ehrlichman, senior advisor to Nixon

There is nothing definitive in this quote and I was aware of it before I posted.The problem is even far left vox would have a problem with this narrative, never mind conservative minded people.

There's no doubt Nixon was racist, and historians told me that race could have played one role in Nixon's drug war. But there are also signs that Nixon wasn't solely motivated by politics or race: For one, he personally despised drugs — to the point that it's not surprising he would want to rid the world of them. And there's evidence that Ehrlichman felt bitter and betrayed by Nixon after he spent time in prison over the Watergate scandal, so he may have lied.

More importantly, Nixon's drug policies did not focus on the kind of criminalization that Ehrlichman described. Instead, Nixon's drug war was largely a public health crusade — one that would be reshaped into the modern, punitive drug war we know today by later administrations, particularly President Ronald Reagan.

None of that means that the drug war hasn't disproportionately hurt black Americans. It clearly has. But the lessons of Nixon's drug policies may not be so much that he was a racist, power-hungry politician — although, again, he was — but rather that even well-meaning policies can have big, terrible unintended consequences.

Justin Credible Darts

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1272118281697021953

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1272118281697021953

What was happening here ?

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

What was happening here ?

not sure, looked like some scumbag was giving the bus drivers hassle, and got a nice slam for his troubles

Overheal

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

not sure, looked like some scumbag was giving the bus drivers hassle, and got a nice slam for his troubles

So then what relevance is it to george Floyd or the protests

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

So then what relevance is it to george Floyd or the protests

Black on black is ok apparently.