George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Jmsg

Stateofyou wrote: »

400 years of SYSTEMIC racism is going to have a devastating effect on the Black population. If you don't know what systemic racism in the US entails then I suggest you look it up. Yes there is crime too, and that will always exist. To say that there isn't any actual evidence that there is ongoing oppression against Black people in the US and that affirmative action completely reversed that is just wrong, uniformed, and pure ignorance of the facts. If affirmative action reversed everything, then what's up with the statistics that black people are disproportionately targeted, arrested, jailed, sentenced and killed in their "justice" system.

Men are are disproportionately targeted, arrested, jailed, sentenced and killed in their justice system compared to women. Where's the global 'male lives matter' protest campaign? There isn't one because it's perfectly well understood that the reason is because men commit a disproportionate amount of crime compared to women.

Overheal

Jmsg wrote: »

Men are are disproportionately targeted, arrested, jailed, sentenced and killed in their justice system compared to women. Where's the global 'male lives matter' protest campaign? There isn't one because it's perfectly well understood that the reason is because men commit a disproportionate amount of crime compared to women.

Sure if you actually believe that’s warranted start the movement yourself. Be the change you want to see.

Jmsg

Overheal wrote: »

Sure if you actually believe that’s warranted start the movement yourself. Be the change you want to see.

I said in the post that it wasn't warranted, that was my entire point. But I can understand why you are simply now deflecting because in truth it utterly annihilated your position. If not then please tell me where I'm going wrong. I am completely open to being mistaken. How is there more of a case for there being systemic racism in policing than there is for systemic sexism?

Overheal

Jmsg wrote: »

I said in the post that it wasn't warranted, that was my entire point. But I can understand why you are simply now deflecting because in truth it utterly annihilated your position. If not then please tell me where I'm going wrong. I am completely open to being mistaken. How is there more of a case for there being systemic racism in policing than there is for systemic sexism?

The 13th amendment.

Tell me how

Jmsg wrote: »

Men are are disproportionately targeted, arrested, jailed, sentenced and killed in their justice system compared to women. Where's the global 'male lives matter' protest campaign? There isn't one because it's perfectly well understood that the reason is because men commit a disproportionate amount of crime compared to women.

Do you think that that is because men have largely been treated in such a way which has historically limited the range of opportunities open to them outside of crime, makes it more likely that they will be accused of having committed a crime, are presumed to be guilty of that crime without evidence and are more likely to face violence from the investigating officers in a way in which women are not?

Because, if you do, then you should start to try to get support and maybe take it to the streets in the form of a protest.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

not a peep from him since you posted that.....

I read my kids two stories last night and was able to address that this afternoon. Mature. I've now addressed that, so if you're implying I couldn't respond to that then buckle up. I've got time, but I've also got a life. :rolleyes:

Odhinn

AbusesToilets wrote: »

So what is false?

That black people commit over 50% of murders and the majority of violent crime, despite being 13% of the population. Over 90% against other black people.

That more white people are killed by police than Black people.

That black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to kill blacks than white officers.

Which of those would be false?

Yes, but viewed as percentages of population overall, blacks are more likely to be victims of police shootings than whites.

Justin Credible Darts

Stateofyou wrote: »

I read my kids two stories last night and was able to address that this afternoon. Mature. I've now addressed that, so if you're implying I couldn't respond to that then buckle up. I've got time, but I've also got a life. :rolleyes:

Where ?

Overheal

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Where ?

I assume in the children’s bedroom but that’s a little invasive.

Stateofyou

Jmsg wrote: »

It's not only based on that. Everyone who has a social media account has seen the high majority of people are posting in support of the black lives matter movement despite it only taking a matter of minutes to look up the statistics which show it's a complete farce.

Even back in 2016 during BLM's first iteration many of the mainstream liberal media outlets were questioning the narrative and showing the statistics that there is no ration disparity in blacks getting killed by cops when you factor in the number of encounters with police due to higher rates of crime. Now the narrative has shifted and everyone is on board with what are actually covert power grabs by radical leftists.

That isn't true. Links please.

Justin Credible Darts

Odhinn wrote: »

Yes, but viewed as percentages of population overall, blacks are more likely to be victims of police shootings than whites.

nice try but if you are going to go that route, then since the vast majority of police officers are white, then why is it most blacks are shot by black or hispanic officer, which make up a smaller percentage of the force.


Gotcha!

Jmsg

Tell me how wrote: »

Do you think that that is because men have largely been treated in such a way which has historically limited the range of opportunities open to them outside of crime, makes it more likely that they will be accused of having committed a crime, are presumed to be guilty of that crime without evidence and are more likely to face violence from the investigating officers in a way in which women are not?

The idea criminality in developed nations is caused by impoverishment due to lack of opportunity has been debunked time and time again. As for the other factors you mentioned, the way men have behaved has led to those things going against them in the legal system, not the way they have been treated. Same thing applies to Blacks in America.

Jmsg

Stateofyou wrote: »

That isn't true. Links please.

There was a channel 4 article posted earlier in the thread

Overheal

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

nice try but if you are going to go that route, then since the vast majority of police officers are white, then why is it most blacks are shot by black or hispanic officer, which make up a smaller percentage of the force.


Gotcha!

Got what? Got links?

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

ah right,....so only people of colour can get racism.....


Blacks cannot be racist
Asians cannot be racist
etc



In case you missed the facts earlier you avoided, most blacks killed in america are killed by blacks.
most of the crimes serious crimes committed by blacks is upon blacks

Most black people shot by police are shot by black or hispanics officers.,,,, but its only an issue when a white person kill a black person, and you fail to see the reverse racism in that.

This post is triggered by what, exactly? Why are you even asking those questions? There is no such thing as reverse racism because racism is about power structures, which is held by white people. Prejudice, yes. Reverse racism, no.

"Assumptions and stereotypes about white people are examples of racial prejudice, not racism. Racial prejudice refers to a set of discriminatory or derogatory attitudes based on assumptions deriving from perceptions about race and/or skin colour. Thus, racial prejudice can indeed be directed at white people (e.g., white people can’t dance) but is not considered racism because of the systemic relationship of power.
 When backed with power, prejudice results in acts of discrimination and oppression against groups or individuals.
http://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism
Google reverse racism and LEARN.

Stateofyou

Jmsg wrote: »

Men are are disproportionately targeted, arrested, jailed, sentenced and killed in their justice system compared to women. Where's the global 'male lives matter' protest campaign? There isn't one because it's perfectly well understood that the reason is because men commit a disproportionate amount of crime compared to women.

BLACK men. You forgot the important element: BLACK men.

Silentcorner

Tell me how wrote: »

Do you think that that is because men have largely been treated in such a way which has historically limited the range of opportunities open to them outside of crime, makes it more likely that they will be accused of having committed a crime, are presumed to be guilty of that crime without evidence and are more likely to face violence from the investigating officers in a way in which women are not?

Because, if you do, then you should start to try to get support and maybe take it to the streets in the form of a protest.

Most of us don't have sympathy with those who are convicted of breaking the law, male or female.

Without order in society and an organisation to implement that order, you get anarchy...

It's not a perfect system, but then...what is a perfect system.

Justin Credible Darts

Stateofyou wrote: »

There is no such thing as reverse racism because racism is about power structures, which is held by white people.

so if 2 people apply for a job, one white and one black, and the white person is vastly more qualified but does not get the job and the black person does to fill a quota, was that white person not a victim of racism because his "color" did not meet the criteria.


Remind me again what color was the previous president of america, a man with power ?


Are the millions of white people around the world living in poverty part of this group that controls power?


Please educate me, your knowledge is astounding

Overheal

Silentcorner wrote: »

Most of us don't have sympathy with those who are convicted of breaking the law, male or female.

Without order in society and an organisation to implement that order, you get anarchy...

It's not a perfect system, but then...what is a perfect system.

That lack of sympathy is often dehumanization.

In other news: SCOTUS refused to hear any of the 8 qualified immunity cases on their docket. So police remain extremely well shielded from accountability under the law.

Jmsg

Stateofyou wrote: »

BLACK men. You forgot the important element: BLACK men.

Again, mere deflection and unwillingness to engage with the argument.

Silentcorner

Overheal wrote: »

That lack of sympathy is often dehumanization.

In other news: SCOTUS refused to hear any of the 8 qualified immunity cases on their docket. So police remain extremely well shielded from accountability under the law.

You think I am dehumanizing men?

Justin Credible Darts

Silentcorner wrote: »

You think I am dehumanizing men?

how dare you have an opinion that does not suit others,


shame on you

Stateofyou

Silentcorner wrote: »

Most of us don't have sympathy with those who are convicted of breaking the law, male or female.

Without order in society and an organisation to implement that order, you get anarchy...

It's not a perfect system, but then...what is a perfect system.

Sympathy is sorely lacking, agreed with you there.

Funny you say "convicted of breaking the law." The issue here, on this thread specifically, is police violence in which black men and women are losing their lives without even getting a chance to avail of the "justice" system. And once they're in that "justice system,"

Minneapolis Police Use Force Against Black People at 7 Times the Rate of Whites
-NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/03/us/minneapolis-police-use-of-force.html

Black men who commit the same crimes as white men receive federal prison sentences that are, on average, nearly 20 percent longer.

You get anarchy because of sh!t like that.

Jmsg

Stateofyou wrote: »

Minneapolis Police Use Force Against Black People at 7 Times the Rate of Whites
-NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/03/us/minneapolis-police-use-of-force.html

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/african-americans-arrested-for-resisting-arrest-at-a-larger-rate-in-san-diego/2260289/

"The data shows blacks are 10 times more likely than whites to be arrested for resisting, delaying, or obstructing a police officer."

Stateofyou wrote: »

Black men who commit the same crimes as white men receive federal prison sentences that are, on average, nearly 20 percent longer.

If you account for blacks having larger criminal histories on average than whites leading to them receiving on average less leniency, this claim too is completely bunk.

Justin Credible Darts

if george floyd was a white ex con who was charged with armed robbery, a drug user and convicted thief at 6 foot 4, would that pig of a cop done the same to him ?

if you think that vile cop would do it to a person of any color then you could argue the cop was not racist, but simply a scumbag.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

so if 2 people apply for a job, one white and one black, and the white person is vastly more qualified but does not get the job and the black person does to fill a quota, was that white person not a victim of racism because his "color" did not meet the criteria.


Remind me again what color was the previous president of america, a man with power ?


Are the millions of white people around the world living in poverty part of this group that controls power?


Please educate me, your knowledge is astounding

Racism and bias in the job sector is well established by research. That is why HR professionals in the US have been advocating for blind resumes - names (and gender) are withheld because get this, everyone has bias. Everyone. And this affects things such as job prospects. Research has shown that people have bias towards foreign or names that sound like they belong to someone who is black. There is bias against minorities, and when education, experience, and skills are similar they remain at a disadvantage. Here's one from the BBC even:
"British citizens from ethnic minority backgrounds have to send, on average, 60% more job applications to get a positive response from employers compared to their white counterparts, according to researchers at Nuffield College's Centre for Social Investigation (CSI)." -BBC

So you're saying because there was one Black President out of 45 white men, the problem with racism is now solved? Or what exactly are you implying. That is called TOKENISM. Holding up the one example of a single person of colour who has wealth or power and applying that to the whole demographic to try to make a point where you don't have one.

Yeah, white people still have white privilege. I can see your neck hairs standing up at that statement, haha. Basically that means that, although white people have of course struggled, their skin colour isn't another reason why on top of that.

Justin Credible Darts

Jmsg wrote: »

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/african-americans-arrested-for-resisting-arrest-at-a-larger-rate-in-san-diego/2260289/

"The data shows blacks are 10 times more likely than whites to be arrested for resisting, delaying, or obstructing a police officer."



If you account for blacks having larger criminal histories on average than whites leading to them receiving on average less leniency, this claim too is completely bunk.

or that white people are 10 times less likely to resist, delay or obstruct ?



in reality we all know there are racists in the US police force, I dont think anyone will deny that, but again this notion that it is systemic is what a lot of others have an issue with.

Justin Credible Darts

Stateofyou wrote: »

Racism and bias in the job sector is well established by research. That is why HR professionals in the US have been advocating for blind resumes - names (and gender) are withheld because get this, everyone has bias. Everyone. And this affects things such as job prospects. Research has shown that people have bias towards foreign or names that sound like they belong to someone who is black. There is bias against minorities, and when education, experience, and skills are similar they remain at a disadvantage. Here's one from the BBC even:
"British citizens from ethnic minority backgrounds have to send, on average, 60% more job applications to get a positive response from employers compared to their white counterparts, according to researchers at Nuffield College's Centre for Social Investigation (CSI)." -BBC

So you're saying because there was one Black President out of 45 white men, the problem with racism is now solved? Or what exactly are you implying. That is called TOKENISM. Holding up the one example of a single person of colour who has wealth or power and applying that to the whole demographic to try to make a point where you don't have one.

Yeah, white people still have white privilege. I can see your neck hairs standing up at that statement, haha. Basically that means that, although white people have of course struggled, their skin colour isn't another reason why on top of that.

you quoted my post, and still managed to avoid answering this question


so if 2 people apply for a job, one white and one black, and the white person is vastly more qualified but does not get the job and the black person does to fill a quota, was that white person not a victim of racism because his "color" did not meet the criteria. ?


a simple yes or no would do.

2u2me

If drugs crimes hurt black people more (which they did) people called it a race war.

That drug crimes hurt men more (Which they do) no one calls it a sexist war.

Yet people won't even admit the contradiction. Pathetic.

I have sympathy for people in jail for drug offences; especially after watching "The Wire".

Stateofyou

Jmsg wrote: »

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/african-americans-arrested-for-resisting-arrest-at-a-larger-rate-in-san-diego/2260289/

"The data shows blacks are 10 times more likely than whites to be arrested for resisting, delaying, or obstructing a police officer."



If you account for blacks having larger criminal histories on average than whites leading to them receiving on average less leniency, this claim too is completely bunk.

Research ALSO shows that Black people are targeted and over-policed in comparison to white people. Know what else research also shows? That police officers claim resisting arrest even when that isn't the case. Because they try to justify their actions. It's also the body's natural reaction to getting tackled, strangled, beat, and having excessive force used. So what relevance does that even have. Black people, and people in general in the US, are being subjected to a brutal and inhumane police force AT IT'S CORE.

And why do Black people have larger criminal histories than white people, despite only being 12% of the population? Get there, get there...