George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

joe40

Jmsg wrote: »

George Floyd died of a heart attack due to having coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease, complicated by him being high on fentanyl (a drug multiple times more potent than heroin). It's doubtful the restraint he was under by police had any impact oh his having died, but even if it did, the officer was technically fully within his rights to restrain him how he did as he had resisted arrest. He will be found not guilty in a court of law, and the rioters will cause ten times the mayhem this time around enabled by the weak response from the police towards the rioting last time and the media too will be complicit due to failing to look at the real facts regarding the case of Floyd's death and the overall false claim of discrimination against black people in policing in general

You can't write something like that and expect to be taken seriously.
Plenty of people have complaints about the protests, but no one is trying to justify police action in the Floyd case.

The police man had no right to restrain him in that manner for so long when the man was handcuffed.

Jmsg

joe40 wrote: »

You can't write something like that and expect to be taken seriously.
Plenty of people have complaints about the protests, but no one is trying to justify police action in the Floyd case.

The police man had no right to restrain him in that manner for so long when the man was handcuffed.

Please read my subsequent post in which I cleared that up:

I never said it was justified the officer kept his knee on Floyd's neck, I said it was technically within the law. The gesture is ascribed in law for use in advanced restraining procedure. It's just complicated by the fact Floyd happened to be having a medical emergency at the same time as being arrested.

Stateofyou

Jmsg wrote: »

I never said it was justified the officer kept his knee on Floyd's neck, I said it was technically within the law. The gesture is ascribed in law for use in advanced restraining procedure. It's just complicated by the fact Floyd happened to be having a medical emergency at the same time as being arrested.

No, it wasn't. Other police officers have spoken up and said it's actually against their training. This thread is seriously so annoying. This has already been brought up, discussed, and links posted. It's one big irritating circle jerk at this stage.
Why did you even post that it's justified within the law? Are you a US law enforcement officer? Are you in the Academy and so you have intimate knowledge and training? Some other expertise? Did you look into that first before posting a blatantly false opinion that suits yourself? The answer to those questions of course is, no.

Jmsg

Stateofyou wrote: »

George Floyd's family had an independent and separate autopsy done, by the leading experts in that field. They found that he died of asphyxia. Some people seem to choose to want to ignore facts. I wonder why.

That autopsy was carried by a known charlatan who drew his conclusions merely by looking at the video

2u2me

Overheal wrote: »

What have they won?

We can’t even start to pretend slavery is over while the language of the 13th amendment still stands.

Besides that we are no where even approaching “over” with police brutality

As I said the week of his death: this saga is far from over. That’s still true.

So it's about venting frustration rather than changing things.

joe40

Jmsg wrote: »

Please read my subsequent post in which I cleared that up:

I still think you're wrong, but your argument is that you think the restraint was lawful, Even if it was unnecessary.

Jmsg

Stateofyou wrote: »

No, it wasn't. Other police officers have spoken up and said it's actually against their training. This thread is seriously so annoying. This has already been brought up, discussed, and links posted. It's one big irritating circle jerk at this stage.
Why did you even post that it's justified within the law? Are you a US law enforcement officer? Are you in the Academy and so you have intimate knowledge and training? Some other expertise? Did you look into that first before posting a blatantly false opinion that suits yourself? The answer to those questions of course is, no.

It's really not that complicated. The restraint had been used before and is ascribed in law, would have otherwise been completely harmless if not for the fact the man it was being used on was on copious amounts of drugs and having a heart attack.

The real reason it sparked the protests were the symbology of it: the officers knee on Floyd's neck may as well have been his boot on his face. Pure emotional reaction, no regard for facts. The officer has been arrested and is awaiting being charged.

Stateofyou

Jmsg wrote: »

That autopsy was carried by a known charlatan who drew his conclusions merely by looking at the video

hahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahaha :pac:

Please post your source.

They were a team of legal experts who literally wrote the textbooks in their field. One of the members of that team was Dr. Michael Baden. Baden is the former chief medical examiner of New York City.

Stateofyou

Jmsg wrote: »

It's really not that complicated. The restraint had been used before and is ascribed in law, would have otherwise been completely harmless if not for the fact the man it was being used on was on copious amounts of drugs and having a heart attack.

No. What law is that. You won't post it because you won't find it. He died because an ars@hole kneeled on his neck for almost 9 minutes, long after he was dead even. George's last words were that he couldn't breathe. He could not breathe. That is not an approved method of restraint. Post the source for that being ascribed in law.

2u2me

Overheal wrote: »

And by America’s prisons.

You belittle the memory of those that were slaves with that analogy.

Overheal

2u2me wrote: »

You belittle the memory of those that were slaves with that analogy.

No. No I don’t.

Are you not familiar with the 13th amendment? Slavery is constitutionally protected for the incarcerated.

Justin Credible Darts

Jmsg wrote: »

It's really not that complicated. The restraint had been used before and is ascribed in law, would have otherwise been completely harmless if not for the fact the man it was being used on was on copious amounts of drugs and having a heart attack.

I am not saying it is or it isnt legal, the knee to the throat, truth is I have no idea ...I would hope not


That said the guy was a 6 foot 4 well built guy and an ex con with who did time for aggravated robbery, a convicted thief and a drug user.

People that big will always be restrained most of the time quite forcibly and I dont even think it was racial, as I think that cop was the type of pig who would have done the same to a white ex con 6 foot 4..

Overheal

2u2me wrote: »

So it's about venting frustration rather than changing things.

Don’t know how anyone could genuinely reach such a conclusion.

Edit; not to backseat mod but the thread is over 10k posts, and admins will have to delete posts above that and lock the thread for performance reasons (you may have noticed the slow loading times in the last while), so, no use in more discussion it will be wiped in short order.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I am not saying it is or it isnt legal, the knee to the throat, truth is I have no idea ...I would hope not


That said the guy was a 6 foot 4 well built guy and an ex con with who did time for aggravated robbery, a convicted thief and a drug user.

People that big will always be restrained most of the time quite forcibly and I dont even think it was racial, as I think that cop was the type of pig who would have done the same to a white ex con 6 foot 4..

You are bringing up irrelevant information and using that to justify the type of barbaric and illegal restraint that was used. The cop had NO idea what his past was or what was in his system so why are you even using that to try and justify the reasons the dirty cop had for the murder he committed. He knelt on his neck full weight, after pulling him out of back of his police car he was already in, already fully restrained, and had his hands so casually in his pockets while his stare levelled at the filming cameras. He didn't care what he was doing to that man who said he couldn't breathe and called for his mama. Sick.

Jmsg

Stateofyou wrote: »

No. What law is that. You won't post it because you won't find it. He died because an ars@hole kneeled on his neck for almost 9 minutes, long after he was dead even. George's last words were that he couldn't breathe. He could not breathe. That is not an approved method of restraint. Post the source for that being ascribed in law.

Well I genuinely hope you're right and it's proven in a court of law because if I'm right and he's found not guilty the toddler tantrum this time around would have the whole of America up in flames.

Stateofyou

Jmsg wrote: »

Well I genuinely hope you're right and it's proven in a court of law because if I'm right and he's found not guilty the toddler tantrum this time around would have the whole of America up in flames.

No no, wait a minute here. You posted that it was ascribed in law, so back it up. Now you're saying you hope I'm right that it wasn't legal? What a backpedal. So what source or knowledge were you drawing on when you said that it was "ascribed in law." Or are you going to admit you were talking through your a@s.

"Toddler tantrum this time around?" Are you referring to this current protest and worldwide movement against racism as a toddler tantrum?

Justin Credible Darts

Stateofyou wrote: »

You are bringing up irrelevant information and using that to justify the type of barbaric and illegal restraint that was used. The cop had NO idea what his past was or what was in his system so why are you even using that to try and justify the reasons the dirty cop had for the murder he committed. He knelt on his neck full weight, after pulling him out of back of his police car he was already in, already fully restrained, and had his hands so casually in his pockets while his stare levelled at the filming cameras. He didn't care what he was doing to that man who said he couldn't breathe and called for his mama. Sick.

Really, even though the cop and george seemingly worked security at the same nightclub ?



In fact it is as likely it was a personal issue not a racial issue.


but why let things like this get in the way of you just replying with nonsense for the sake of it.

2u2me

Jmsg wrote: »

The real reason it sparked the protests were the symbology of it: the officers knee on Floyd's neck may as well have been his boot on his face. Pure emotional reaction, no regard for facts. The officer has been arrested and is awaiting being charged.

If you have 25minutes this video does a great job of exploring this point.

It focuses on two cases, a Vietnam war veteran Andrew Brannan(2 bronze stars) who had not taken his meds for two weeks and killed an officer when he was stopped. He was executed in 2015.

The other man, Markeith Loyd, killed his wife while pregnant with their baby and later killed a further 2 police officers trying to escape. The jury did not recommend the death sentence in this case and he is serving life.

What was difference in the two cases? Video evidence.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Really, even though the cop and george seemingly worked security at the same nightclub ?



In fact it is as likely it was a personal issue not a racial issue.


but why let things like this get in the way of you just replying with nonsense for the sake of it.

What's with the insane englarged print? Calm down. I don't have trouble reading normal font. :rolleyes:
None of my colleagues are aware of most of my life's history. Not a productive path you're taking there. At the end of the day there is no excuse for taking this man's life. But why let logic get in the way of your senseless posting.

shaveAbullock

Stateofyou wrote: »

No no, wait a minute here. You posted that it was ascribed in law, so back it up. Now you're saying you hope I'm right that it wasn't legal? What a backpedal. So what source or knowledge were you drawing on when you said that it was "ascribed in law." Or are you going to admit you were talking through your a@s.

Minneapolis is one of the few police departments that did allow neck restraints it was in the MPD policy and procedure manual. So you can be sure that it will be used by the defence in this case.

Stateofyou

Jmsg wrote: »

It's really not that complicated. The restraint had been used before and is ascribed in law, would have otherwise been completely harmless if not for the fact the man it was being used on was on copious amounts of drugs and having a heart attack.

The real reason it sparked the protests were the symbology of it: the officers knee on Floyd's neck may as well have been his boot on his face. Pure emotional reaction, no regard for facts. The officer has been arrested and is awaiting being charged.

Derek Chauvin already faces charges of second-degree murder and manslaughter.

2u2me

Overheal wrote: »

No. No I don’t.

Are you not familiar with the 13th amendment? Slavery is constitutionally protected for the incarcerated.

To become incarcerated you need to commit a crime. (however menial)
There is an element of choice.

Slaves commit no crimes and had no choice.

By the way I'm one of the few people in this thread in favour of reducing drugs laws and massively reducing non-violent offenders sentences. I've spoken about it numerous times it never gets much interest. You just seem to be using it as a stick to slap people with.

Justin Credible Darts

Stateofyou wrote: »

What's with the insane englarged print? Calm down. I don't have trouble reading normal font. :rolleyes:
None of my colleagues are aware of most of my life's history. Not a productive path you're taking there. At the end of the day there is no excuse for taking this man's life. But why let logic get in the way of your senseless posting.

Show me one one post where I have defended the cop and not said he was wrong.


You are deflecting yet again.
You have spouted there is systemic racism in the police force.
Where are your facts to back up this claim ????



You have claimed the pig cop who I am not defending killed george out of racism....where are your facts to back up these claims it was racism and not something else like personal issues ??


I think the cop was wrong, but if you are going to label it a racist attack, where is your proof racism was the key factor.

Stateofyou

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Minneapolis is one of the few police departments that did allow neck restraints it was in the MPD policy and procedure manual. So you can be sure that it will be used by the defence in this case.

"In Minneapolis, law enforcement officers were permitted to employ two types of neck hold (carotid neck restraints) on a potential suspect, according to the department’s Policy and Procedure manual, but only officers who have received specific training in how to correctly carry them out are permitted to do so.

However, former police officer and co-founder of the Police Policy Studies Council Tom Aveni, who has been involved in training law enforcement officers since 1983, told USA Today: "I have not seen anyone teach the use of a knee to the neck.”

The Minneapolis Policy and Procedure manual describes two types of neck restraint police officers can deploy: Conscious neck restraint (putting light pressure on the subject's neck with an arm or leg without cutting off their airway) and unconscious neck restraint (applying enough pressure on a subject to make them lose consciousness without killing them).

Conscious neck restraint involves putting light pressure on the subject's neck with an arm or leg without cutting off their airway, and unconscious neck restraint puts enough pressure on a subject to make them lose consciousness without killing them, according to the manual. It can only be justified if a suspect if acting aggressively or resisting arrest. Even so, when a suspect has been handcuffed and subdued, the hold must be released immediately, according to experts.

Minneapolis police officers have used neck restraints at least 237 times and rendered people unconscious 44 times since 2015, according to NBC News. Minneapolis police officials told NBC that this hold is neither sanctioned nor taught at the Minneapolis PD.

https://en.as.com/en/2020/06/06/other_sports/1591442963_890018.html

You can put anything in a policy and procedure document, that doesn't make it legal or approved.

Stateofyou

2u2me wrote: »

To become incarcerated you need to commit a crime. (however menial)
There is an element of choice.

Slaves commit no crimes and had no choice.

By the way I'm one of the few people in this thread in favour of reducing drugs laws and massively reducing non-violent offenders sentences. I've spoken about it numerous times it never gets much interest. You just seem to be using it as a stick to slap people with.

Is there any way this thread can be paused, or actually re-started now that it's hit 10,000 posts, and ask that people first watch 13th on Netflix before commenting again. It explains the slavery to prison pipeline that exists in the US.

Justin Credible Darts

Stateofyou wrote: »

Is there any way this thread can be paused, or actually re-started now that it's hit 10,000 posts, and ask that people first watch 13th on Netflix before commenting again. It explains the slavery to prison pipeline that exists in the US.

wow


you are now dictating people should have to watch a programme you decided upon in order to post in this thread.


let that sink in folks

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Show me one one post where I have defended the cop and not said he was wrong.


You are deflecting yet again.
You have spouted there is systemic racism in the police force.
Where are your facts to back up this claim ????



You have claimed the pig cop who I am not defending killed george out of racism....where are your facts to back up these claims it was racism and not something else like personal issues ??


I think the cop was wrong, but if you are going to label it a racist attack, where is your proof racism was the key factor.

The facts have been stated and link ALL over this thread. The Facts are easily referenced by your friend Google. And in many documentaries found on Netflix or YouTube. Or perhaps US history books would interest you? This is so juvenile to even debate the factual existence of systemic racism. You need to go educate yourself and come back to have an intelligent discussion. It's like asking me to post my proof that the sky appears blue and the earth revolves around the Sun. :rolleyes:
Where are YOUR facts he killed him because of personal reasons? Where did I say it was because of racism? I said he was an ar@sehole who senselessly took his life after kneeling on his neck with his hands casually in his pocket. Whether it was personal or racist, lets just agree it was wrong and put this stupid argument to bed.

Stateofyou

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

wow


you are now dictating people should have to watch a programme you decided upon in order to post in this thread.


let that sink in folks

Its apparently ridiculous to educate yourself about the history and laws of a country of which this post is actually about in order to have informed debate. Let that sink in folks.

Silentcorner

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

wow


you are now dictating people should have to watch a programme you decided upon in order to post in this thread.


let that sink in folks

On Netflix....I'll watch it after I've watched the documentary on Alexadria Ocasio-Cortez and the one on that woman who was married to the last President....I can't remember her name...she's writing books and going on tours.

WE should all be made to watch two hours of content from The Ministry of Truth per day...we'll all be in agreement then!

Silentcorner

Stateofyou wrote: »

The facts have been stated and link ALL over this thread. The Facts are easily referenced by your friend Google. And in many documentaries found on Netflix or YouTube. Or perhaps US history books would interest you? This is so juvenile to even debate the factual existence of systemic racism. You need to go educate yourself and come back to have an intelligent discussion. It's like asking me to post my proof that the sky appears blue and the earth revolves around the Sun. :rolleyes:
Where are YOUR facts he killed him because of personal reasons? Where did I say it was because of racism? I said he was an ar@sehole who senselessly took his life after kneeling on his neck with his hands casually in his pocket. Whether it was personal or racist, lets just agree it was wrong and put this stupid argument to bed.

Dude...you really sound worked up...maybe online discussion forums don't suit you.