George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

2u2me

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Exactly. I've been living in Los Angeles for 8 years, and what I've seen most amongst my friends is them asking for support in helping to raise the profile of their voice. To help take it from being a 'black' problem, to being a seen as a societal problem.

This may seem so easy; yet to me it looks like an empty and vacuous statement.

How is this supposed to be accomplished? I've seen Don Lemon on CNN say the exact same thing.(Bold) To me statements like these actually stoke racial tensions and are often employed as a way of silencing others. Perhaps you could change my mind.

Jim Bob Scratcher

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

The cops need to get tough here

Indeed, the majority of these protesters are just plain outright thugs.

~Rebel~

2u2me wrote: »

This may seem so easy; yet to me it looks like an empty and vacuous statement.

How is this supposed to be accomplished? I've seen Don Lemon on CNN say the exact same thing.(Bold) To me statements like these actually stoke racial tensions and are often employed as a way of silencing others. Perhaps you could change my mind.

One part of it I think, is for those of us that have even the barest understanding of what they go through, to say that to their white friends and peers. As I mentioned above, I had a vague sense of "America is more racist", but I really had no idea of just how systemic it is, and all the little ways that life is tougher on a day to day basis. Until I experienced that with friends, and heard their perspective on life, the way they feel when they see a police car - regardless what they're doing - I only had a vague sense of it. This shit is still so recent for them, it's only a few decades since they were officially second class citizens with separate schools, separate bathrooms, with many aspects of life simply closed off. While institutions have officially changed, many mindsets haven't.

Understanding comes from conversation. Like, actual, real conversation between people - and not Black people preaching at white people, but white people in their own families or workplaces or friend-groups, giving just enough insight to make someone second guess themselves and question how they've thought of something before. Small simple steps like these start to erode the 'them & us' dynamic so instead of someone preaching at you, it becomes a conversation. It's still a million miles off fixing things, but it's the first big step that needs to be taken, where this is an open discussion where someone can come into it ready to empathise.

We like to think in Ireland that we're above a lot of this, but actually, the ready condemnation of Black Americans that we've seen after this is fairly unsettling. No effort to understand the seething longstanding frustrating behind it, it's just straight to vilification.
And it's funny, after I moved over, and saw the scale of the racial inequality, I was thinking "christ, it'd never be like that in Ireland". And then back in 2017 a friend and her Mom came to visit for 2 weeks when I was back for the summer, and during that time they experienced pretty much at least one moment of racism a day here. Dublin was the only place they didn't have much issue. I'm from Cork, and was absolutely gutted when they said Cork was actually their most unpleasant experience. Obviously a small sample, but it bummed me the fuck out to hear anyway.

splinter65

It always turns out the same. Poor American black guy gets murdered by a psychotic policeman and the whole world quite rightly revulses in horror.
72 hours later we’re watching an out of control angry mob on Sky News working very very hard to overturn an ambulance, lights still flashing, that’s got trapped in the riots and all the sympathy just drains away.

~Rebel~

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Indeed, the majority of these protesters are just plain outright thugs.

*minority

Clarence Boddiker

The Guardian doing their bit

"Violence is the only answer left"

Calhoun

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The Guardian doing their bit

"Violence is the only answer left"

That seems to be the narrative at the moment, i don't think they would be happy if this got brought to its natural conclusion through violence. Its great to call it as the only way when you are looking for a smokescreen to deflect criticism but for violence to really make a difference it has to be a near civil war level.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Calhoun wrote: »

That seems to be the narrative at the moment, i don't think they would be happy if this got brought to its natural conclusion through violence. Its great to call it as the only way when you are looking for a smokescreen to deflect criticism but for violence to really make a difference it has to be a near civil war level.

That's when the US really steps up and liberates an oppressed people.

omerin

The US is a ****hole, anyone in this country that complains about it can **** right off.

Watching CNN, it really is a piece of ****e, a mirror reflection of Fox, which equally trawls the depths, regurgitating its narrative. This week on cnn the contributors are fueling the crap that is going on now. One mentioned that all white people are racist, and that they dont need to worry about the KKK, they need to concern themselves about the white middle aged liberal Hilary Clinton supporter who is cloaking their racism. If i was to communicate a wide all encompassing narrative around a specific race, creed or colour i would be locked up. Other contributors have said that white people cant say they are colour blind be ause this is ignoring the issues. Not many are condoning the acts of violence and vandalism.
Maybe its me but what kind of pond life would destroy local amenities and business just for the sake of it.

Not sure how this can be resolved but at the mo the US is fooked

~Rebel~

Calhoun wrote: »

That seems to be the narrative at the moment, i don't think they would be happy if this got brought to its natural conclusion through violence. Its great to call it as the only way when you are looking for a smokescreen to deflect criticism but for violence to really make a difference it has to be a near civil war level.

That is the worst part of all this. In the grand scheme, I don't think it will change anything in and of itself.

About the only thing it might possibly do is politically awaken a portion of the community to action that might not have otherwise. To have more people running in local elections on a platform of police reform. We've seen community leaders step forward over the past few weeks and take on responsibility. More of this, and more people running for more societally beneficial causes, with more grassroots anger turning people out to vote, is the only way things might change. God knows if it'll happen, but fingers crossed.

Again, living in LA, I've been seeing homelessness grow exponentially since I got there. It was bad when I arrived, but it's so so so much worse now. But no-one ever talked about it. You bring it up in conversation, and the chat kind of pittered out (yeah, i'm an annoying prick with this stuff sometimes). But finally, over just the past year, it's finally finally started seeping into the public conversation. Local politicians are getting elected with this as their central platform. It's gaining traction as something to donate to and help with on social media, and slowly but surely we're seeing progress being made, and momentum grow. That took almost 8 years to see that change, so I don't expect societal change for African Americans to happen over the next round of elections, but hopefully these sorts of events start drip-drip-dripping it into the public consciousness in a way that can have meaningful impact over the next decade.

Calhoun

~Rebel~ wrote: »

We like to think in Ireland that we're above a lot of this, but actually, the ready condemnation of Black Americans that we've seen after this is fairly unsettling. No effort to understand the seething longstanding frustrating behind it, it's just straight to vilification.
And it's funny, after I moved over, and saw the scale of the racial inequality, I was thinking "christ, it'd never be like that in Ireland". And then back in 2017 a friend and her Mom came to visit for 2 weeks when I was back for the summer, and during that time they experienced pretty much at least one moment of racism a day here. Dublin was the only place they didn't have much issue. I'm from Cork, and was absolutely gutted when they said Cork was actually their most unpleasant experience. Obviously a small sample, but it bummed me the fuck out to hear anyway.

I don't think anyone is condemning people just because of their skin color, there has been some real thuggery going on in the riots. I get it they want to protest they want to show frustration, instead of attacking administration buildings you see the likes of Target being looted for all that its worth.

They will take flak for it and its not a reflection on Irish people if we don't like what we are seeing, you can really dislike that a guy was murdered by a sadistic cop and also condemn other bad behavior.

Ireland demographics have been changing over the past few years which is why your starting to see allot more racism come to the surface. We are making allot of the same mistakes the UK have made in terms of integration policy and we also have cases of media bias that has overlook certain bad behavior which drives resentment.

Calhoun

~Rebel~ wrote: »

That is the worst part of all this. In the grand scheme, I don't think it will change anything in and of itself.

About the only thing it might possibly do is politically awaken a portion of the community to action that might not have otherwise. To have more people running in local elections on a platform of police reform. We've seen community leaders step forward over the past few weeks and take on responsibility. More of this, and more people running for more societally beneficial causes, with more grassroots anger turning people out to vote, is the only way things might change. God knows if it'll happen, but fingers crossed.

Again, living in LA, I've been seeing homelessness grow exponentially since I got there. It was bad when I arrived, but it's so so so much worse now. But no-one ever talked about it. You bring it up in conversation, and the chat kind of pittered out (yeah, i'm an annoying prick with this stuff sometimes). But finally, over just the past year, it's finally finally started seeping into the public conversation. Local politicians are getting elected with this as their central platform. It's gaining traction as something to donate to and help with on social media, and slowly but surely we're seeing progress being made, and momentum grow. That took almost 8 years to see that change, so I don't expect societal change for African Americans to happen over the next round of elections, but hopefully these sorts of events start drip-drip-dripping it into the public consciousness in a way that can have meaningful impact over the next decade.

Look what it cost in Ireland the last civil war we had, we still have two parties with nearly the same politics who are opposites (nearly 100 years on).

Hopefully the action that your seeing leads to a fruitful situation but until the cycle of polarization is broken i don't hold out too much hope. Unless you build a compromise and understanding your not going to go anywhere. Both the left and the right in America would have you believe its a zero sum game and until they change tact and turn it into a scenario where everyone can win a bit your at a stalemate.

2u2me

~Rebel~ wrote: »

One part of it I think, is for those of us that have even the barest understanding of what they go through[...]

I wrote a long-winded post twice in reply, but I dont' want to bore anyone. I'll try again tomorrow.

Zurbaran

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The Guardian doing their bit

"Violence is the only answer left"

When has violence not been a way to stop oppressors? There is probably a few instances where it has been done but in the main it has been proven to be the way to go.

We did it ourselves here with the British even though we didn’t get the whole island back.

2u2me

Zurbaran wrote: »

When has violence not been a way to stop oppressors?

I think we need some perspective, they are hardly being oppresssed.
Everyone was on board with the officer with his knee on Floyd getting charged, he was going through due process. I would understand this anger if the police got off scot free.



https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

YFlyer

Going to spark off in Atlanta.

Zurbaran

2u2me wrote: »

I think we need some perspective, they are hardly being oppresssed.
Everyone was on board with the officer with his knee on Floyd getting charged, he was going through due process. I would understand this anger if the police got off scot free.



https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

So you don’t think black people in America are oppressed? Police officers almost always get off Scot free.

Those stats are also laughable. If you go on the site and select the sources it asks you to pay. Have you done this and can you please post them here if so?

Cheerful Spring2

Like a breakdown of society. The official news not shown anything, really. Some videos on Twitter are stunning and shocking.

https://twitter.com/mkultranews/status/1266893237450498048


https://twitter.com/PMBreakingNews/status/1266897157405265923

Carfacemandog

Sweetemotion wrote: »

That's not the truth, you're worse than cnn.

If that's not the truth, then point out which part of it isn't.

Just because the truth is inconvenient to your feelings doesn't make it any less true.

brendanwalsh

Cops are losing control in a couple of cities. This could end up turning very nasty.

Zurbaran

Zurbaran wrote: »

So you don’t think black people in America are oppressed? Police officers almost always get off Scot free.

Those stats are also laughable. If you go on the site and select the sources it asks you to pay. Have you done this and can you please post them here if so?

Forgot to mention that the per population of each minority and circumstance is not taken into account in those stats. There’s probably more inaccuracies I’m missing.

Carfacemandog

2u2me wrote: »

I think we need some perspective, they are hardly being oppresssed.
Everyone was on board with the officer with his knee on Floyd getting charged, he was going through due process. I would understand this anger if the police got off scot free.



https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Without asking how so many shot by police are of an 'unknown' ethnicity, or pointing out that George Floyd was not shot to death himself, that graphic shows the opposite of what you think it does.

There are 6 white people to every black person in the US, meaning last year black people were 4 times more likely to be shot to death by police, and so far this year that has risen to 5 times more likely. The number is also alarmingly high in the hispanic/Latino community.

And when they protested this peacefully, they were utterly vilified for doing so, in an effort led by the president of their own country.

Cheerful Spring2

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Cops are losing control in a couple of cities. This could end up turning very nasty.

You got multiple cities entering a lockdown (a curfew in the next half hour to an hour) the national guard on the move. They be cracking heads soon; it is out of control currently in lot of places.


https://twitter.com/ZekeHartnerWTOP/status/1266894914647883776

Madeleine Birchfield

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Cops are losing control in a couple of cities. This could end up turning very nasty.

Syria 2.0

Jesus..CNN are definitely trying to push a certain narrative anyway,..

Cheerful Spring2

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

Syria 2.0

Get on twitter it like a Warzone over there. Dozens and dozens of videos of shocking things happening minute by minute. It is hard to keep up with all.

Nashville Texas they are attempting to burn down the building.

https://twitter.com/aj_abell/status/1266903167050137600

nocoverart

Coronavirus possibly caused from a person eating a bat, American riots from a fake 20 Dollar Bill. TBF I know it's not that simplistic in reality but still mad to think about it like that.

Atlantic Dawn

Reporters carrying around portable television studios in their hands is making it very interesting.

Thrashssacre

Building in philly on fire

YFlyer

Huge police presence in Minneapolis. Looks like a stand off.